nVidia: "We expected more from the 7970"

[Crap Daddy]

Things are shaping up although it's just rumors and bits of info. So NV thought AMD would have better performance for the 7970, no suprise here I think most of us feel this way, except for AMD hardcore fans who try to justify in any possible way the reason to spend an unprecedented (for AMD products as bang/buck champs) 550$ for a card.

This explains what's going on with Kepler and the rumors for the first launch of the GK104. It seems that for NV it would be enough to get out this mid-high range chip to counter the high-end offerings from AMD. That is why rumor is that cards based on this chip will be out sooner than expected. I'm convinced now that nobody really knows the specs of this card as NV is probably busy to tweak it in order to match/surpass the 7900 series. Time will tell.

 

[blackened23]

nVidia said nothing. They spoke with a nVidia guy at the ces.

A nvidia employee who was speaking on their behalf at a trade show-- Sounds like nvidia did say something. At an event like this if you're wearing an nvidia t-shirt, you are speaking for your company.

While I like (and own) NV's products I don't like their tactics. Smearing the competition and making exaggerated claims is pretty unclassy, they did this same sort of thing when 5870 was released - it was nonsense then and its nonsense now.

 

[Kenmitch]

My thinking is the 7970 was clocked where it is to be faster than a 580 by a decent amount (which it is), but not push it. As that then gives nVidia something to aim at. Its smarter to give yourself head room when you don't have any real competition, which AMD currently doesn't.

That makes some sense I guess....But then what would Nvidia push Kepler to beat. The stock clocked 7970 or would they aim at the overclocked 7970? And I guess the biggest question would be did Nvidia have to push Kepler to it's limit to get there.

I guess it's possible that AMD help back some on the 7970 besides just clock speeds. It was kinda a combination GCN/28nm pipecleaner product wasn't it after all. I guess maybe when the real 7950 vs 7970 benchmarks are released we could get a clock for clock comparison and somewhat figure out what some more stream processors and tmus might bring to GCN....Guess time will tell.

 

[sontin]

A nvidia employee who was speaking on their behalf at a trade show-- Sounds like nvidia did say something. At an event like this if you're wearing an nvidia t-shirt, you are speaking for your company.

While I like (and own) NV's products I don't like their tactics. Smearing the competition and making exaggerated claims is pretty unclassy, they did this same sort of thing when 5870 was released - it was nonsense then and its nonsense now.

The people are not allowed to talk about Kepler. Andrew Fear was very clear about it in an interview with MB3D or so.

This is a off camera commentary which i thing the guy regrets.

 

[epidemis]

They are reiterating what we already know, the 7900 series didn't provide the 1.5 generational jump we're used to.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Am I the only one that believes Kepler will make the 7970 essentially a $550 mid range card?

Nope, I've been saying it since it came out.

 

[lavaheadache]

All this talk about the 7970 performance being lack luster is crap. Maybe at the incrediblely conservative stock clocks the cards are only moderately faster than all the other single GPU cards but even just using the sliders in CCC the card quickly distances itself closing on the dual GPU microstuttering monsters. The vast majority of cards I have heard about are a 2 second visit in to CCC overdrive away from incredible perfomance.

This is coming form the mouth of somebody who was a very loving owner of an awesome GTX 580.


People were raving about GTX 460's for the same merit. They performed great at stock levels and awesome when overclocked. Why does the 7970 not get the same love from some of the same people?

 

[imaheadcase]

Big talk from a company that doesn't have a competing product.

Did you just get into graphics cards? because they have had a competing product for over a year before AMD came out with the 7970. To put that in perspective..even if they release new GPU in a couple months. They held (still hold in games/scenarios with gtx580) the title for over a year.

 

[Lonbjerg]

It seems the red team are more into NVIDIA rumors than the green team...funny.

 

[Lonyo]

Am I the only one that believes Kepler will make the 7970 essentially a $550 mid range card?

Yes, because:

1) $550 is not mid-range
2) It won't be $550 if there's that much of a performance difference...

Anyone who thinks AMD is going to keep HD7970 prices at $550 when NV finally get round to releasing something, assuming it's competitive and they price it to put pressure on AMD is being stupid.

Remember the GTX280/260?

AMD has priced their card according to the pricing on the competition.
The fact that the competition is the GTX580 doesn't make any difference.
If there's a change in the competition, there will almost certainly be a change in the pricing...

 

[Phynaz]

What would they be expected to say? "Wow, that's kick-ass. Buy one of theirs instead of ours!"?

 

[lavaheadache]

Did you just get into graphics cards? because they have had a competing product for over a year before AMD came out with the 7970. To put that in perspective..even if they release new GPU in a couple months. They held (still hold in games/scenarios with gtx580) the title for over a year.

The hd 4870 beat a gtx 280 in certain cherry picked games and scenarios too. Did that make it the overall better card?

And the 7970 is by far and largely faster/better/more future proof than a GTX580 any day of the week at similar price points.

IS what I'm saying far from the truth?

 

[mosox]

Probably they got 50% bigger woodscrews this time.

 

[Mopetar]

The price on the 7970 will come down once nVidia releases something, but AMD is just taking this opportunity to milk extra profit out of the market. It is somewhat funny that the roles have been reversed. Everyone is talking about how nVidia will have this great mid-range card with incredible value and how AMD is overpricing their card just because it's the best single GPU available at the moment.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

AMD didn't raise the bar very high, 20% over the 580 stock vs stock isn't turning too many heads.

Didn't the 480 beat the 285 by like 75%?

 

[lavaheadache]

AMD didn't raise the bar very high, 20% over the 580 stock vs stock isn't turning too many heads.

Didn't the 480 beat the 285 by like 75%?

Not that I agree with your 20% number but how do you go from 7970 gain over 580 to 480 gain over 285 (also, I don't think it was 75% at release but I haven't looked back nor do I care to).

Shouldn't you be comparing 7970 gains over the 6970 if you are going to come 480 gains over the 285?


Hate if you going to hate, but by all means do it properly

 

[BallaTheFeared]

No, I'm only thinking about how much Nvidia improved this gen over last to get an idea of what kind of an improvement we could see this gen over current gen.

480 to 580 wasn't a generation, it was a refresh. Clock for clock core for core 4xx is juts as fast as 5xx, the difference is in the power draw, improved cooling (vapor chamber), and of course the last cluster unlocked when comparing the 480 to the 580.

Clock for clock the 470 is virtually the same as the 560 ti 448.

 

[Vesku]

Techpowerup has it at around 30% faster (1920x1200) in their launch review.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_480_Fermi/32.html

I'd say it was probably more like 40-50% when you drop the games that were not CPU bottlenecked. I think Anandtech's review bears that estimate out http://www.anandtech.com/show/2977/...-gtx-470-6-months-late-was-it-worth-the-wait-
Unfortunately Techpowerup hasn't improved that part of their reviews (Starcraft 2 fps capped results used in their 7970 review).

I bet if someone was to compare today with latest drivers that 75-80% mark might be accurate.

 

[waffleironhead]

What would they be expected to say? "Wow, that's kick-ass. Buy one of theirs instead of ours!"?

exactly. They clearly didnt set any expectations towards kepler's performance. It's nvidia PR stepping in to cause doubt to anyone who is on the fence as to whether they should but the 7k series or wait for nvidias new offerings.

 

[Grooveriding]

Fermi/GT300 A2 tapeout
Fermi needs A3 silicon? Launch in Q1 2010
nV: Fermi gaming info forthcoming
Fermi actually in January?
Fermi benchmarked? [Fake]
nV will demo Fermi based Tesla on Dec.17
GF100 Fermi specs speculation at B3D
Fudzilla: Cypress yields 60-80% Fermi yields at 20% Fermi 20% faster than Cypress
nVidia's Fermi to be called GTX 470 and 480

These were only from mostly the end of 2009.

Six months after Evergreen 5870/5850, we got this:

The FUD train is just starting.... :biggrin:

 

[Keysplayr]

Gotta love it when nobody knows what is real or not. It does make for very entertaining reading.

 

[PingviN]

Kinda lame trying to downplay the competition when you've got absolutely nothing yourself.

I hope for the sake of competition and low prices that Nvidia can put something impressive out the door. Hopefully before summer and hopefully not "fermi impressive" (as in not impressive at all).

 

[PrincessFrosty]

Am I the only one that believes Kepler will make the 7970 essentially a $550 mid range card?

Probably close to it, once the high end parts are out.

Nvidia have been known to shoot for 2x the speed in flagship cards after a die shrink and architecture redesign in the past, so it wouldn't be a very big stretch to see 2x the 580 hitting later in the year, especially if they maintain large GPU sizes of late. Something of that magnitude would comfortably beat the 7970.

AMD have held back with their clocks on the 7970 you can tell, most of them overclock a huge amount even on the stock cooler without issue so they're holding out, almost certainly to counter Nvidias release with a refresh of the series.

Thing is, if I was an AMD customer I'd be pretty irritated knowing i'd bought the highest end part and it was really being held back to just give AMD a stab at a 2nd win later in the year, while you can mod the card and OC it to see those gains that's kinda besides the point.

 

[chimaxi83]

le sigh...

If you're going to bash and say "omg gtx 480 improved sooo much over 285, why u no haz same improvement AMD", at least continue the comparison like you did for GTX, with 7970 vs 6970.

61% faster than 6970 in Batman AA, 9% faster than 580.
44% faster than 6970 in BF3, 16% faster than 580
36% faster than 6970 in Skyrim, 18% faster than 580
56% faster than 6970 in DE:HR, 29% faster than 580
72% faster than 6970 in Batman AA Eyefinity, 19% faster than 580
36% faster than 6970 in BF3 Eyefinity, 20% faster than 580
57% faster than 6970 in DE:HR Eyefinity, 38% faster than 580

Overall about 51% faster than 6970 at equal settings, on average. With release drivers, stock clocks of course. And you're about right, 21% on average improvement over 580. This is all taken from just one review site.

Overclocking? The gap widens even further.

If you're any good at math, you can extrapolate these numbers to show improvements over 6970.

I understand the desperation around here to take any and all light away from whatever competes with their favorite product, but damn... be more subtle with the hate lol, you're doing it wrong

 

[BallaTheFeared]

lol desperation, that's funny.

Hard tested what, 4 games at 1600p?

They tested like 15 DX11 titles, also they did 1600p, but I figured I'd post what's relative to me which isn't a $1000 screen.

6% faster on average at 1200p over 15 titles.