Nvidia's Future GTX 580 Graphics Card Gets Pictured (Rumours)

[Silverforce11]

Its always a good idea to release the fastest GPU.. even if there aren't demanding games.

There are enthusiasts out there with big screens or multi screens. Even todays game need the extra omph when you play at those resolutions. Crown = good.

 

[SickBeast]

Its always a good idea to release the fastest GPU.. even if there aren't demanding games.

There are enthusiasts out there with big screens or multi screens. Even todays game need the extra omph when you play at those resolutions. Crown = good.

It *is* good, however the main reason for having the "crown" historically was to have a trickle-down effect and build the brand so they could sell more low end cards.

Now it seems as though they're doing it because it's their last bastion. Time will tell. Perhaps GPGPU will take over sooner than people think.

 

[AtenRa]

Tessellation needs two key elements, Shaders-Rasterizers and a Multi Tessellation engine design, that’s why NV designed GF100 with a polymorph engine (tessellator) in each SM and four rasterizers, one in each GPC (Graphics Processor Cluster).

http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/img/pcw/docs/343/352/kaigai-02.jpg

http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/img/pcw/docs/343/153/08.jpg

We can clearly see how that translated to performance and scalability when we compare GTX470 to GTX480 in DX-11 tessellation.

In the following table GTX480 is ~33% faster in Moderate mode than GTX470 and in extreme mode it is ~32% faster. All that only with an SM difference (32 cores) (15 SMs for the GTX480 vs 14 SMs for GTX470) and 100MHz in frequency.

The Polymorph engine (Tessellator) analogy to Shaders in GF100 is 1 per 32 Cuda Cores but in GF104 is 1 per 48 Cores. Tessellation performance will never be the same in GF100 and GF104 (When same number of Shaders) because Tessellation to shaders analogy is not the same.

Now, if GTX580 is a GF100 derivative with all SMs (512 Cuda Cores) and 16 Polymorph engines and raised clocks, then I expect tessellation performance to be at +20-30% and that’s even if they will not get it more efficient than GF100.

 

[Scali]

Scali that depends on which tessellation benchmark and which factors your running. At the moderate levels in ungine it shows like this:

I am talking about tessellation performance only. Unigine is a graphics benchmark. It does far more than just tessellation, which makes it all the more amazing that the GTX460 is so much faster than the 6870, since in non-tessellation scenario's, the 6870 is generally significantly faster than a GTX460, even if it is overclocked.
Try TessMark if you want to have an isolated test of the tessellator performance.

 

[BFG10K]

20% faster with 20% less power draw sounds great to me. I really hope they do trim off all the fat that I don’t need. Heck, they can even remove DP for all I care.

 

[ScorcherDarkly]

More rumors of a shaky 580 launch. Actually described as a "$%!*storm", lol.

http://www.atomicmpc.com.au/News/237213,the-gtx580-launch-flawed.aspx

 

[Silverforce11]

Partner C's response gave me a good laugh..

Classic. Not unexpected though. NV has done it before, paper launching to try and rain on AMD's parade. If you were in their position i think most would do the same. It's business afterall.

 

[Keysplayr]

More rumors of a shaky 580 launch. Actually described as a "$%!*storm", lol.

http://www.atomicmpc.com.au/News/237213,the-gtx580-launch-flawed.aspx

Almost has a Demerjian feel to it as I was reading it.

 

[Dribble]

It does sound like they are pushing the release forward to make sure they don't do another fermi and release after amd. Hence seems pretty likely initial availability will be bad. tbh I'd still prefer it that way - review both and if the nvidia card is worth waiting a couple of months for I'll wait.

Here's some alleged performance figures in a random chart from another forum with figures that look about right:
http://www.enet.com.cn/videocard/img/2010/1101/69/5807698.jpg

 

[Idontcare]

20% faster with 20% less power draw sounds great to me. I really hope they do trim off all the fat that I don’t need. Heck, they can even remove DP for all I care.

Don't they need those bits and pieces to keep selling those professional/HPC cards that make up some 50% of their gross profits?

 

[Arkadrel]

Atomic: Hi {A}, we were wondering when we'd be able to get a review sample of the new GTX580? We were told to expect them roughly by the 9th of November.

Partner A: We're getting some in mid November. You'll be getting one then.

Atomic: Hi {B}, when will we be getting one of your GTX580 cards?

Partner B: We're not actually sure. Stock might be in by December, but we haven't got a confirmation at this stage.

Atomic: Hi {C}, when can we expect the new GTX580 card?

Partner C: ....We don't have that card on our roadmap. Does it exist?

Atomic: Hi {D}. So, how's about that new GTX580?

Partner D : We're getting stock in soon, so expect the card shortly.

Source: AtomicPC
http://www.atomicmpc.com.au/News/237213,the-gtx580-launch-flawed.aspx

"We've also heard rumblings around the place that the launch of the GTX580 will coincide with the AMD 6970, both due to hit on the 22nd of November."

"knee-jerk reaction that appears to be constructed solely to take the wind out of the competition's sails."

Nvidia up to tricks again only reason they picked same day (not because their ready to launch) but because they re trying to get people not to buy AMD cards. Couldnt they have launched 1 day before AMD then? or 1 day after lol... but on the same day? what are the chances.

People are speculating that nvidia wont be ready by the 22th and that its stall tactic to get nvidia guys to wait for the 580 instead of upgradeing to amd, so nvidia guys might be in for a 2 month wait or something.

 

[tviceman]

More rumors of a shaky 580 launch. Actually described as a "$%!*storm", lol.

http://www.atomicmpc.com.au/News/237213,the-gtx580-launch-flawed.aspx

Partner C's response gave me a good laugh..

Classic. Not unexpected though. NV has done it before, paper launching to try and rain on AMD's parade. If you were in their position i think most would do the same. It's business afterall.

That article was borderline terrible. If partners don't have boards to send for reviews, then there isn't a "launch" and all the rumors of a any kind of impending launch - be it paper or hard - are inaccurate. The fact that partners don't have boards yet means 1 of 2 things:

Nvidia is trying really hard to control leaks

or

Nvidia will not be launching the new chips when Charlie predicted

Nvidia up to tricks again only reason they picked same day (not because their ready to launch) but because they re trying to get people not to buy AMD cards. Couldnt they have launched 1 day before AMD then? or 1 day after lol... but on the same day? what are the chances.

And if they are ready to launch by then, or even if they wouldn't have retail availability for a week or so after this date, wouldn't it make sense to launch before or at the same time as the competition? How would that be a trick? Why not rain on someone else's parade? Isn't that competitive? I'm pretty much repeating what Silverforce said...


Either way, Nvidia is obviously keeping their cards very close this time. Even Charlie's spin machine, despite what his words say, have given away the fact that GF110 is more than just a fully unlocked GF100. If GF110 is in fact based off GF100, increasing the clocks on the cards by 50-75mhz and unlocking 22 shaders would not get a 20-30% performance bump and a 20% decrease in power draw. The architecture has been tweaked and updated - something that so many people on here said could/would not happen on 40nm.

 

[Gloomy]

Partner A sounds like my kind of guy.

 

[Ares1214]

My predicition is maybe soft launch late november, december, and then hard december-february.

 

[formulav8]

The architecture has been tweaked and updated - something that so many people on here said could/would not happen on 40nm.

Most I remember reading is nvidia can't do much to increase the transistors on 40nm. Which is still true to a pretty strong extent. Its always possible to tweak the core, ect.. on the same process and even increase the number of transistors. nVidia's issue is they already have 3 billion transistors and a huge die. While they can definitely tweak the core and 40nm process, they would have to be alittle nutty to do to a major transistor increase...

 

[Carfax83]

Don't know if this has been posted yet, but chinese website eNet leaked this graph:

Also according to the same source, the GTX 580 will have 244w TDP and the TMUs will be doubled to 128.

 

[Compddd]

So for GTX 580 its going to be like GF110 in that they are cutting out all the GPGPU computing and having it focus on gaming? If so, that is fantastic news!

 

[Arkadrel]

http://www.semiaccurate.com/2010/11/01/cayman-chips-turn-wild/

From Semi-accurate.
AIBs with chips to make cards.... cards could arrive on shelfs within 2-3 weeks. We ll probably see 6970s in 2weeks O_O.

Says the AIBs got chips + 6Ghz GDDR5.
So we ll likely see 6Ghz Cayman cards.... Does this mean 256bit bus width or 384bit bus width? How much bandwidth is that?

 

[n0x1ous]

http://www.semiaccurate.com/2010/11/01/cayman-chips-turn-wild/

From Semi-accurate.
AIBs with chips to make cards.... cards could arrive on shelfs within 2-3 weeks. We ll probably see 6970s in 2weeks O_O.

Says the AIBs got chips + 6Ghz GDDR5.
So we ll likely see 6Ghz Cayman cards.... Does this mean 256bit bus width or 384bit bus width? How much bandwidth is that?

I thought I was in the 580 thread?...

 

[Sickamore]

Following up on previously leaked specifications, Chinese website eNet has filled in some missing information - notably TDP and TMU count. The TDP of GeForce GTX 580 is at 244W, slightly lower than the GeForce GTX 480. The texture fillrate had been viewed by many as one of the bottlenecks for GF100, and eNet reports that GF110 effectively doubles the TMU count to 128 TMUs. Apart from this substantial improvement in TMU, the GF110 is a "full revision" and fixed version of GF100.

The net result is a performance improvement of between 15%-20% over the GTX 480, while using less power. It must be noted that the GTX 480's 250W TDP figure was controversial as they reflected typical load power for gaming applications, whereas stress benchmarks like Furmark used close to 300W, and this is the reference AMD uses for TDP ratings. It is unclear whether the 244W figure refers to gaming load or absolute TDP in stress applications.

In addition to eNet's report, purported benchmarks for the GTX 580 has leaked on the Chinese enthusiast community.

The benchmarks show an average improvement of ~17% for the GTX 580 over the GTX 480. The maximum increase is in 3D Mark Vantage - ~35%, while the minimum increase is in Resident Evil 5 ~5%. Against the Radeon HD 5870, the GTX 580 wins comfortably by an average of ~45%. The gaps are massive (~2x) in tessellation oriented benchmarks, building on GTX 480's strengths, while the DX10 benchmarks narrow the gap considerably. Unfortunately, according to these benchmarks, the GTX 580 will end up slower than AMD's previous-gen Radeon HD 5970, on average, let alone AMD's upcoming flagship - Antilles / Radeon HD 6990. GTX 580 against Cayman / Radeon HD 6950/70 is the real battle here. Naturally, we would advise you to take any such leaks with a grain of salt.*

The GTX 580 is set to release in one week's time, on November 8th/9th (depending on where you live), but the jury is still out on the extent of availability on release. While strong rumours suggest virtually no availability on launch, eNet insists that AIC partners will have GTX 580s on sale on November 9th. However, the quantity of cards for sale on November 9th is not mentioned.

http://vr-zone.com/articles/report-nvidia-geforce-gtx-580-tdp-is-244w-includes-128-tmu-benchmarks-leaked/10202.html

 

[Grooveriding]

The more benches and estimates come out, the more underwhelming this launch starts to look. The one positive rumor is the decreased power draw.

Nvidia is scrambling to launch these cards. They likely know the AMD 6970 radeon is going to be faster and they can't compete. So best bet is get these cards out fast, get the bleeding edge, generally nvidia loyalists, to upgrade to these before they get a chance to see the 6970 performance.

I have my doubts this will generate sales for nv. Buyers of halo products are pretty savvy and want the best. Most will wait to see what the Radeon 6970 offers before putting down cash on a 580. They may get sales on the 570 if it is cheap though.

My bet is the Radeon 6970 has the 580 respectably beaten and will be the faster part and nvidia knows this already. That and they know they have nothing to come near the 6990 when that launches.

One good thing out of this launch is that you'll likely be able to get a GTX480 on the cheap.

 

[Arkadrel]

If thats true then in 7days we ll see benchmarks? (IF november 8th is launch day like VR said). You cant launch a card without haveing benchmarks or cards in stores can you?

Meanwhile AIBs (the guys that make cards you buy) say this:

Atomic: Hi {A}, we were wondering when we'd be able to get a review sample of the new GTX580? We were told to expect them roughly by the 9th of November.

Partner A: We're getting some in mid November. You'll be getting one then.

Atomic: Hi {B}, when will we be getting one of your GTX580 cards?

Partner B: We're not actually sure. Stock might be in by December, but we haven't got a confirmation at this stage.

Atomic: Hi {C}, when can we expect the new GTX580 card?

Partner C: ....We don't have that card on our roadmap. Does it exist?

Atomic: Hi {D}. So, how's about that new GTX580?

Partner D : We're getting stock in soon, so expect the card shortly.

Source: AtomicPC
http://www.atomicmpc.com.au/News/237213,the-gtx580-launch-flawed.aspx

These guys build grafics cards you buy in stores:

Partner A says maybe mid november.
Partner B says stock maybe around december.
Partner C says we dont have that on our roadmap.

November 8th launch seems unlikely to me.

Nvidia is scrambling to launch these cards. They likely know the AMD 6970 radeon is going to be faster and they can't compete. So best bet is get these cards out fast, get the bleeding edge, generally nvidia loyalists, to upgrade to these before they get a chance to see the 6970 performance.

This seems likely... rumors from chiphell said they benched the two cards and the 580 had to be overclocked to match the 6970. Time will tell.

 

[Genx87]

The more benches and estimates come out, the more underwhelming this launch starts to look. The one positive rumor is the decreased power draw.

Nvidia is scrambling to launch these cards. They likely know the AMD 6970 radeon is going to be faster and they can't compete. So best bet is get these cards out fast, get the bleeding edge, generally nvidia loyalists, to upgrade to these before they get a chance to see the 6970 performance.

I have my doubts this will generate sales for nv. Buyers of halo products are pretty savvy and want the best. Most will wait to see what the Radeon 6970 offers before putting down cash on a 580. They may get sales on the 570 if it is cheap though.

My bet is the Radeon 6970 has the 580 respectably beaten and will be the faster part and nvidia knows this already. That and they know they have nothing to come near the 6990 when that launches.

One good thing out of this launch is that you'll likely be able to get a GTX480 on the cheap.

Lets wait until the products are out in the wild. This thing looks like it is about 40-45% faster than the 5870. How much faster are we expecting the top end card from AMD to be compared to the 5870? The mid-series cards were underwhelming imo. Basically a side grade from the 5850. Considering this is on the same process as the 480 and of the same arch. This is a pretty good step up in performance from the 480 if the performance holds true.

 

[blastingcap]

I have my doubts this will generate sales for nv.

Perhaps not, but it WILL give NV something to talk about during their Nov. 11 financial conference call regarding third-quarter results. Wall street--not gamers--is probably what this is all about, esp if they are rushing to get it out on or before Nov. 11.

 

[RussianSensation]

Perhaps not, but it WILL give NV something to talk about during their Nov. 11 financial conference call regarding third-quarter results. Wall street--not gamers--is probably what this is all about, esp if they are rushing to get it out on or before Nov. 11.

NV may try this tactic with Wallstreet. However, I doubt investors are dumb enough to buy it. With GTX460 competing at 332mm2 with 255mm2 6850 and GTX470 competing at 529mm2 with 255mm2 HD6870, NV showing another 500mm2 "performance crown" chip isn't going to mysteriously raise profit margins in the $0-250 segments. After reporting a 32% decline in mobile discrete chip shipments from Q2, investors are far more likely to raise questions about mobile performance than be excited over some 'halo' GTX580 paper launch.

I can't stress the importance of NV getting destroyed on the mobile side. Why JHH always focuses on the desktop side is beyond me. I mean, mobile sector is more important than ever. NV would be better off diverting whatever resources it has towards more competitive mobile offerings, than chasing performance crown with $500 parts on desktops.