NYT publishes anon op-ed from sr admin official: I Am Part of the Resistance Inside the Trump Admin

[fskimospy]

It reads more like a manifesto than anything else. There is the slight possibility that someone is having the NYT on, taking a piss to set them up, but if that is not the case the idea that we have reached a point in US history that such resistance is deemed necessary by people in a President's party is nothing short of astounding.

"Unprecedented" has been used, perhaps overused at times, but we have factually entered an era where that is precisely where things stand. In terms of action, this is not unimaginably removed from an actual coup, one that many would approve of because the Constitution has been attacked by enemies domestic in office.

I've been surprised and heartened at how many liberals have come out and said this it not okay.

If you think a president is so badly compromised due to stupidity, ignorance, corruption, whatever, you need to say so publicly and attempt to get him removed from office. You don't quietly sabotage him. Establishing a norm where the executive branch tries to thwart the president's will because they are unwilling to use the mechanisms provided by the Constitution is not okay. We have an answer and the means through which to remove him. Either try that way or resign publicly and let the world know you are resigning because the president is insane.

 

[HomerJS]

One by one so called Sr. officials are being asked "is it you?" We may know by weekend.

So far denials

Pence
Pompeo

Coats and his deputy have denied

 

[zinfamous]

It reads more like a manifesto than anything else. There is the slight possibility that someone is having the NYT on, taking a piss to set them up, but if that is not the case the idea that we have reached a point in US history that such resistance is deemed necessary by people in a President's party is nothing short of astounding.

"Unprecedented" has been used, perhaps overused at times, but we have factually entered an era where that is precisely where things stand. In terms of action, this is not unimaginably removed from an actual coup, one that many would approve of because the Constitution has been attacked by enemies domestic in office.

NYT would not have published this without the article being directly handed to them by the individual. It is as real as real can be.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

NYT would not have published this without the article being directly handed to them by the individual. It is as real as real can be.

I think he means they did it to intentionally stir shit but I'm having a hard time seeing that as the motivation.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

This seems incredibly unlikely

I agree although I submit that we live in the most unlikely of nations in the most unlikely of times.

We have an answer and the means through which to remove him.

Your point is taken however it's a bit like saying "I'm starving because I have no money for food" and answering with "well nevermind that, go to the store and by some".

The means does not exist except in theory. In reality, it cannot happen no matter what is revealed. Once the Dems take the House? Yes, impeachment is possible but then there is the actual trial in the Senate that requires 2/3's to convict and possibly remove. I don't believe we will have that majority anytime soon.

In the meantime, Trump destroys the rule of law, subverts the Constitution and continues to believe that he is above everything else including the two things I've mentioned.

I'm not arguing that the approach taken is correct but I don't know what is anymore outside of overt force and illegal means of usurpation being a non-starter for me. IMO we have reached a qualitatively new point in Trump's administration.

 

[Jhhnn]

It reads more like a manifesto than anything else. There is the slight possibility that someone is having the NYT on, taking a piss to set them up, but if that is not the case the idea that we have reached a point in US history that such resistance is deemed necessary by people in a President's party is nothing short of astounding.

"Unprecedented" has been used, perhaps overused at times, but we have factually entered an era where that is precisely where things stand. In terms of action, this is not unimaginably removed from an actual coup, one that many would approve of because the Constitution has been attacked by enemies domestic in office.

Using the 25th amendment to remove an insane president from office would not be a coup. OTOH, it sets a higher bar for removal than impeachment, requiring a 2/3 vote of both houses.

I don't doubt the author's sincerity at all. I'm sure that the closer a person gets to Trump the more obvious it becomes that he's out of his fucking mind.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Using the 25th amendment to remove an insane president from office would not be a coup. OTOH, it sets a higher bar for removal than impeachment, requiring a 2/3 vote of both houses.

I don't doubt the author's sincerity at all. I'm sure that the closer a person gets to Trump the more obvious it becomes that he's out of his fucking mind.

Plus doesn't 100% of the cabinet have to agree?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Plus doesn't 100% of the cabinet have to agree?

No. Per the 25th itself a simple majority is the requirement.

 

[Jhhnn]

No. Per the 25th itself a simple majority is the requirement.

Correct. Text-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-fifth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#Text

 

[HomerJS]

Heard an interesting theory...

Author of op-ed is Trump himself using someone in his orbit to draft letter. This is his way of getting out and claiming a coup was responsible.

He will claim, I got you tax cuts, two SC justices, deregulation, tore up flawed treaties/alliances and we are more secure. I did everything I promised and so I'm out.

 

[fskimospy]

Heard an interesting theory...

Author of op-ed is Trump himself using someone in his orbit to draft letter. This is his way of getting out and claiming a coup was responsible.

He will claim, I got you tax cuts, two SC justices, deregulation, tore up flawed treaties/alliances and we are more secure. I did everything I promised and so I'm out.

I sincerely, sincerely doubt this.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Heard an interesting theory...

Author of op-ed is Trump himself using someone in his orbit to draft letter. This is his way of getting out and claiming a coup was responsible.

He will claim, I got you tax cuts, two SC justices, deregulation, tore up flawed treaties/alliances and we are more secure. I did everything I promised and so I'm out.

And anyone who would agree to participate in that knowing what the end result would be should be drug out into the street and shot. I don't mean that as a euphemism. I mean literally drug out and shot.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Heard an interesting theory...

Author of op-ed is Trump himself using someone in his orbit to draft letter. This is his way of getting out and claiming a coup was responsible.

He will claim, I got you tax cuts, two SC justices, deregulation, tore up flawed treaties/alliances and we are more secure. I did everything I promised and so I'm out.

It is interesting I’ve thought Trump wanted to be the chief complainer not the commander in Chief. His lifestyle has obviously been ruined by being President.
I do think the above is thinking way too far out for Trump to be capable of.

 

[UNCjigga]

I'm starting to agree with some of the more conservative opinion pieces out there--whatever this person's genuine concerns and intentions are, this is is absolutely the wrong way to go about this. What we have here is an attempt by someone inside the administration to subvert elected head of state (hold aside any qualms you might have about how legitimate the election was--not relevant for this point) and possibly undermine civilian control of the government. That is scary. Just imagine if McChrystal or Petraeus had done something like this to undermine Obama in his first term. Hell, it's not too hard to imagine any of the more hardened joint chiefs ignoring "some goddamn liberal's" orders.

Taking this action casts a shadow on the entire cabinet, and makes us look even weaker to our enemies than DJT could do on his own. Put up or shut up--say it out in the open or resign in protest.

 

[UNCjigga]

Also, for the record, I'm pretty sure this op-ed piece was written by/signed off by more than one high-level individual in the President's orbit, and turned into NYT by Don McGahn himself.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

^^I completely agree. He/She or they should have gotten some trusted members of Congress involved.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

I'm starting to agree with some of the more conservative opinion pieces out there--whatever this person's genuine concerns and intentions are, this is is absolutely the wrong way to go about this. What we have here is an attempt by someone inside the administration to subvert elected head of state (hold aside any qualms you might have about how legitimate the election was--not relevant for this point) and possibly undermine civilian control of the government. That is scary. Just imagine if McChrystal or Petraeus had done something like this to undermine Obama in his first term. Hell, it's not too hard to imagine any of the more hardened joint chiefs ignoring "some goddamn liberal's" orders.

Taking this action casts a shadow on the entire cabinet, and makes us look even weaker to our enemies than DJT could do on his own. Put up or shut up--say it out in the open or resign in protest.

I've seen that opinion pretty much universally from all sides that this was not the way to go. This isn't some act of bravery or courage. This accomplishes nothing but creating a shitstorm that is unparalleled in history with no idea where it will lead.

 

[ewdotson]

I've been surprised and heartened at how many liberals have come out and said this it not okay.

If you think a president is so badly compromised due to stupidity, ignorance, corruption, whatever, you need to say so publicly and attempt to get him removed from office. You don't quietly sabotage him. Establishing a norm where the executive branch tries to thwart the president's will because they are unwilling to use the mechanisms provided by the Constitution is not okay. We have an answer and the means through which to remove him. Either try that way or resign publicly and let the world know you are resigning because the president is insane.

I'm smack dab in the lower left corner political-compass-wise, and this is pretty much where I am. If he's genuinely unstable, executing the 25th amendment could reasonably be considered heroically doing one's duty. (Because his cabinet *would* face hellacious backlash from a large chunk of the country if they did that.) If he's not unstable but just a terrible person, resigning and publically speaking of the administration's issues to try to force Congress' hand would be heroic.

This? This is cowardly clinging to power one's carved out for oneself.

 

[VRAMdemon]

As much as I can't stand Trump and as much as I find all of this intriguing, I really don't like any of this. Because it means we really do have a puppet for a president and a shadow government pulling the strings. And though this "rebel" assures us these string-pullers all on the up-and-up, there's no way we can know this. If you have the balls to snatch papers off the president's desk, then you have the balls to do a whole lot of other stuff the president and no one else knows about.

The post-Trump landscape of legislative restrictions on the actions of the Chief Executive is likely to look very different from the pre-Trump one. Congress and the judiciary are now realizing that a lot of the unsupervised autonomy that the office of the President enjoys was based on the assumption that the President would be a reasonably well-informed and responsible adult, and that this assumption can no longer be taken for granted.

If it’s BS, but Trump figures it isn’t, then he rants about how cowardly the leaker is, and bellows about trying to find out who it is, and fires off angry tweets about an anonymous traitor, or whatever; but he presumably doesn’t sue for libel, because so long as he figures it’s not BS he'd figure he's in for a public declarartion by the court that, officially " uh no, that's not in fact libel".

Trump, by all accounts, thrives on and deliberately cultivates chaos. He wants his various aides and minions competing against each other. He wants people to not know where they stand with him. He wants to play all sides against each other, and when no one is looking he slips the family silver into his pocket. Trump really thinks anyone who disagrees with him is guilty of treason!

As for this being some shadowy cabal, well, maybe they didn't go by-the-book in invoking the 25th Amendment, but someone did announce it in the New York Times.

 

[zinfamous]

I'm starting to agree with some of the more conservative opinion pieces out there--whatever this person's genuine concerns and intentions are, this is is absolutely the wrong way to go about this. What we have here is an attempt by someone inside the administration to subvert elected head of state (hold aside any qualms you might have about how legitimate the election was--not relevant for this point) and possibly undermine civilian control of the government. That is scary. Just imagine if McChrystal or Petraeus had done something like this to undermine Obama in his first term. Hell, it's not too hard to imagine any of the more hardened joint chiefs ignoring "some goddamn liberal's" orders.

Taking this action casts a shadow on the entire cabinet, and makes us look even weaker to our enemies than DJT could do on his own. Put up or shut up--say it out in the open or resign in protest.

Yep.

Pretty much every thing that is happening with this shit show is just another mark in the win column for Putin. The US executive branch is now directly comparable to a country like Turkey or Egypt. People are going to scream "exaggeration!" but it is anything but. You simply can't have military overstepping and thwarting civilian leadership, or POTUS-appointed officials ignoring or overstepping the decisions of POTUS, or even making their own via proxy. It's completely untenable.

And you can't just remove POTUS in this case. You can't allow for some sort of tolerance for this behavior because of "special circumstances." The person(s) responsible for this are openly admitting to all sorts of obstruction for the simple sake of "I believe in my party--not my country." It is absolutely unfathomable. It is a tacit admission that "we knew this guy was an unhinged loon all along, but we needed him anyway if only to continue our savage raping of the American public. Rest assured--we are doing and will do better to control him, all the while you just bend over and take what we give you until this blows over"

NYT is stuck because they are bound by ethics to protect their source, but this kind of activity is a clear and present threat to our democracy.

 

[VRAMdemon]

I've seen that opinion pretty much universally from all sides that this was not the way to go. This isn't some act of bravery or courage. This accomplishes nothing but creating a shitstorm that is unparalleled in history with no idea where it will lead.

Yep..bravery not found;

Benjamin Wittes said it best on Twitter:

"I have no respect for someone who would say these things - of whose truth I have no doubt - in an anonymous oped, rather than in a public resignation letter copied to the House Judiciary Committee."

I also empathize with the politician who, finding themselves in the middle of the swamp, feels that they are left with two choices: speak up and quit or be fired, and be replaced by a dangerous, anti-Democracy Trump-selected know-nothing, or stay and try to preserve the Republic through this crisis. The author of this letter is no hero, and is in fact engaging in some action that threatens our very idea of a Democracy. However, I can also understand the conclusion that this is the lesser evil.

 

[VRAMdemon]

I think he means they did it to intentionally stir shit but I'm having a hard time seeing that as the motivation.

As an alternative, a senior official who blocks the president could be called Deep Thwart.

 

[IronWing]

At this point, Trump really should fire all his appointees and camp followers and start over. He won't because he lives for this shit but it is what a prudent leader would do.

 

[Blackjack200]

I also empathize with the politician who, finding themselves in the middle of the swamp,

This, quite honestly, might be the funniest thing I've ever seen on these forums. As if the ludicrous corruption and fascism in Washington today hit like a bolt on inauguration day rather than being nurtured and condoned by Republicans and Democrats respectively for the last 40 years.

 

[zinfamous]

Yep..bravery not found;

Benjamin Wittes said it best on Twitter:

"I have no respect for someone who would say these things - of whose truth I have no doubt - in an anonymous oped, rather than in a public resignation letter copied to the House Judiciary Committee."

I also empathize with the politician who, finding themselves in the middle of the swamp, feels that they are left with two choices: speak up and quit or be fired, and be replaced by a dangerous, anti-Democracy Trump-selected know-nothing, or stay and try to preserve the Republic through this crisis. The author of this letter is no hero, and is in fact engaging in some action that threatens our very idea of a Democracy. However, I can also understand the conclusion that this is the lesser evil.

I thought this at first, but I don't really see it that way now. The letter isn't from one person--it claims to be "a group." So this was arrived at by consensus. And all along, the stated defense of their strategy is to preserve "the wonderful things that Trump has already accomplished....for our party." They needed their $1.5 trillion deficit-paid wealthy-person windfall of a tax bill, and they will go to the mat defending it, even if it means obstruction and serious dereliction of duty at the highest level of office in this country. On top of this, you have the JCOS and quite possibly SecDEF and Security Council in open rebellion against POTUS orders. It doesn't matter how "right" they are in ignoring these dangerous orders, it upends the constitution. It is their duty to report these grievinces, and quite honestly to resign in the process.

This is all unfathomable, and represents no less of a threat to our country and our constitution, than the mere presence of an unhinged Donald in the Oval Office.