NYT refuses to publish illegaly obtained material never meant for the public eye

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Scotteq

Diamond Member
Apr 10, 2008
5,276
5
0
"All The News That's Fit To... Choose!"

It even Rhymes!

....and for the record: They *all* do this stuff. Just that the NYT got caught this time.
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,685
126
Climategate was outsiders hacking into and stealing information from an orgainzation that they were not affiliated with.

Cablegate was a whistleblower with legitimate acces to the documents leaking them.

Nice try.
 

OBLAMA2009

Diamond Member
Apr 17, 2008
6,574
3
0
theyre just saying that because everyone else has access to the same stuff and they cant do anything about that. if their own reporters had gotten the wikileaks disclosures theyd be publishing it all to try to get a pulitzer
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
Climategate was outsiders hacking into and stealing information from an orgainzation that they were not affiliated with.

Cablegate was a whistleblower with legitimate acces to the documents leaking them.

Nice try.

And we know this - how, exactly?
 

101mpg

Member
Nov 29, 2010
122
0
0
Climategate was outsiders hacking into and stealing information from an orgainzation that they were not affiliated with.

Cablegate was a whistleblower with legitimate acces to the documents leaking them.

Nice try.


Nice try at what? So you're saying that if the wikileaks had been obtained by outsiders hacking that NYT would have then and only then been in violation of their ethical code by posting them? I think you're just trying to justify it in your own mind.
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
how's that toe jam taste?

Oh, and btw, the climatic research unit of the university has been largely funded by the united states department of energy since the 1970s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/climatic_research_unit#history

but keep sticking up for the nyt! They sure do need your expert help!

Why, if we didn't know the difference between the two, they'd look exactly the same! But you've cleared that all up for us, haven't you?

Hint: When your apples look like organges and vice-versa, you've had too much kool-aid.

defend at all costs
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,685
126
Nice try at what? So you're saying that if the wikileaks had been obtained by outsiders hacking that NYT would have then and only then been in violation of their ethical code by posting them? I think you're just trying to justify it in your own mind.

You'd have to ask the NYT, but even in that case there is still a signifigant difference between personal/professional emails of scientists communicating with each other about research, publicly funded or private, and the cables of individuals representing the foreign policy of the United States.

If you do not see the distinction there it is because you refuse to.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
You'd have to ask the NYT, but even in that case there is still a signifigant difference between personal/professional emails of scientists communicating with each other about research, publicly funded or private, and the cables of individuals representing the foreign policy of the United States.

If you do not see the distinction there it is because you refuse to.

The distinction that springs immediately to mind is that the wikileaks dump found no conspiracy to defraud the world.
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,685
126
The distinction that springs immediately to mind is that the wikileaks dump found no conspiracy to defraud the world.

I don't discuss global warming on these forums anymore, and this is an excellent example of why. Anyone that claims that those emails revealed a "conspiracy to defraud the world" is a bombastic imbecile. I would be willing to debate/discuss the legitimate questions about the science and implications of global warming, but when most of the discussion on this forum happens at this level, it's about as productive as discussing evolutionary biology with a 6 day creationist, or astronomy with a geocentric flat earther.

So let's leave it at this: your inability or unwillingness to understand how the scientific community functions aside, the nature of climategate and cablegate are very different, and it is not interally inconsistant for the NYT to refuse to publish one while agreeing to publish the other.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,002
14,532
146
You'd have to ask the NYT, but even in that case there is still a signifigant difference between personal/professional emails of scientists communicating with each other about research, publicly funded or private, and the cables of individuals representing the foreign policy of the United States.

If you do not see the distinction there it is because you refuse to.

Since the researchers were government funded, they were de facto employees of the government. I see little difference, and no difference worth making one worse than the other. Especially since their "work" was shaping policy every bit as much as the cables released by wikileaks.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,002
14,532
146
I don't discuss global warming on these forums anymore, and this is an excellent example of why. Anyone that claims that those emails revealed a "conspiracy to defraud the world" is a bombastic imbecile. I would be willing to debate/discuss the legitimate questions about the science and implications of global warming, but when most of the discussion on this forum happens at this level, it's about as productive as discussing evolutionary biology with a 6 day creationist, or astronomy with a geocentric flat earther.

So let's leave it at this: your inability or unwillingness to understand how the scientific community functions aside, the nature of climategate and cablegate are very different, and it is not interally inconsistant for the NYT to refuse to publish one while agreeing to publish the other.

Be careful, your bias is showing.
 

Pulsar

Diamond Member
Mar 3, 2003
5,225
306
126
You'd have to ask the NYT, but even in that case there is still a signifigant difference between personal/professional emails of scientists communicating with each other about research, publicly funded or private, and the cables of individuals representing the foreign policy of the United States.

If you do not see the distinction there it is because you refuse to.

What?

Many of the climategate emails that they refused to post were business communications - professional if you will. Very similar to the professional business communciations that wikileaks will be posting from the US government.

You're trying to draw completely non-existent distinctions to defend the paper, and it just doesn't jive.
 

CPA

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
30,322
4
0
Of course there's no difference between 100% tax payer funded activities, conducted by Federal employees, using Federal communication methods and those of some climate scientists at private institutions.

Gotcha.

Also, the NYT is clearing anything they release with the Feds first.

But hey whatever keeps your blood pressure up psychos.


lol, are you kidding? 99% of those "scientists", and I use that word loosely, suckle of the government teet in one way or another - direct payroll, grants, etc.
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,685
126
Since the researchers were government funded, they were de facto employees of the government. I see little difference, and no difference worth making one worse than the other. Especially since their "work" was shaping policy every bit as much as the cables released by wikileaks.

Has nothing to do with whether or not they are government employees. And if you think their work was "shaping policy" you must be living in a different world where we didn't dump 20 billion tons of carbon into the atmosphere last year.

Be careful, your bias is showing.

That's okay, I'm not ashamed of my bias for science and democracy.

What?

Many of the climategate emails that they refused to post were business communications - professional if you will. Very similar to the professional business communciations that wikileaks will be posting from the US government.

You're trying to draw completely non-existent distinctions to defend the paper, and it just doesn't jive.

Similar except that the cables represent the execution of foreign policy on behalf of the American people, while the email from climategate was discussion about scientific research.

Again, you don't see the distinction because you don't want to.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,002
14,532
146
Has nothing to do with whether or not they are government employees. And if you think their work was "shaping policy" you must be living in a different world where we didn't dump 20 billion tons of carbon into the atmosphere last year.



That's okay, I'm not ashamed of my bias for science and democracy.



Similar except that the cables represent the execution of foreign policy on behalf of the American people, while the email from climategate was discussion about scientific research.

Again, you don't see the distinction because you don't want to.

No, you see a distinction because of your bias.

And if you put your faith in climate models made not only with an obvious bias, but when we have NEVER been able to create a model that can accurately predict future climate to begin with (even in the short term), you're not following science, you're being snowed.

The funny thing about science is that it is dead wrong many, many times before it is finally right. But when the process is stopped dead, debate censored and the results is accepted by "consensus" the entire process is fucked.

The minute we were told, "just trust us, you're too stupid to understand it anyhow" it was obvious to just about anyone with common sense. People know a con when they hear it.

And finally, yes, the climate research WAS shaping future policy. Thankfully many of those policies were stopped dead by this leak. Unfortunately, some got through, like the cap n tax in California.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,002
14,532
146
Republicans hate science.

Discuss.

Nice strawman.

And a GREAT redo of the argument used by religions throughout the ages. Questioning dogma = you hate god.

When you have to revert to arguments like this, you've long since lost.
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,685
126
No, you see a distinction because of your bias.

And if you put your faith in climate models made not only with an obvious bias, but when we have NEVER been able to create a model that can accurately predict future climate to begin with (even in the short term), you're not following science, you're being snowed.

The funny thing about science is that it is dead wrong many, many times before it is finally right. But when the process is stopped dead, debate censored and the results is accepted by "consensus" the entire process is fucked.

The minute we were told, "just trust us, you're too stupid to understand it anyhow" it was obvious to just about anyone with common sense. People know a con when they hear it.

And finally, yes, the climate research WAS shaping future policy. Thankfully many of those policies were stopped dead by this leak. Unfortunately, some got through, like the cap n tax in California.

You don't need to put any faith in climate models to accept that the there are 390 ppm CO2 in the atmosphere, and the reason it's so far above its regular levels (200-300 ppm for the last half million years) is because of human activity.

The basic mechanics of climate change are not hard to understand, and I've never heard anyone say or infer that people are too stupid to do so.

Climategate isn't the underlying reason for a lot of the backwards movement on environmental policy, it really has more to do with the shifting public opinion on global warming, far fewer people believe it exists today than did 10 years ago. Climategate was the "Gulf of Tonkin" that allowed the policy makers to do what they wanted to do anyway.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,002
14,532
146
You don't need to put any faith in climate models to accept that the there are 390 ppm CO2 in the atmosphere, and the reason it's so far above its regular levels (200-300 ppm for the last half million years) is because of human activity.

The basic mechanics of climate change are not hard to understand, and I've never heard anyone say or infer that people are too stupid to do so.

Climategate isn't the underlying reason for a lot of the backwards movement on environmental policy, it really has more to do with the shifting public opinion on global warming, far fewer people believe it exists today than did 10 years ago. Climategate was the "Gulf of Tonkin" that allowed the policy makers to do what they wanted to do anyway.

Um, no.

The real world effect of any added or subtracted gas is GUESS work at best, as any model they have made has been wildly inaccurate. So, because the models are inaccurate it shows they really have no fucking clue what the end result will be, therefore ANY conclusion is bullshit.

And the obvious bias of the researchers plays a huge part too, as the inaccuracy of the models ALL swung wildly in the direction of the bias of the researchers.

Climategate marked a shift in public opinion both here, and around the world. To deny it is rather silly.
 

ayabe

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2005
7,449
0
0
How's that toe jam taste?

Oh, and BTW, the Climatic Research Unit of the university has been largely funded by the United States Department of Energy since the 1970s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climatic_Research_Unit#History

But keep sticking up for the NYT! They sure do need your expert help!

Why, if we didn't know the difference between the two, they'd look exactly the same! But you've cleared that all up for us, haven't you?

Hint: When your apples look like organges and vice-versa, you've had too much kool-aid.

Nothing in that link says anything about largely funded.

"Since the second half of the 1970s the Unit has also received funding through a series of contracts with the United States Department of Energy to support the work of those involved in climate reconstruction and analysis of the effects on climate of greenhouse gas emissions."

Some funding <> largely funded and right above that it's founded by private donations from BP, etc. So anyways - private and public - back to your frothing.
 
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