Obama: $1000 check to families to be paid by big oil

[Dari]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: hellokeith
Intel has been making really big profits. Obama should take those profits and buy every person a new computer with an AMD processor in it and Linux preinstalled.

:laugh:

Oil companies don't invent anything. They simply get rights to dig the stuff out of the ground. Why should they benefit so much when others are paying a lot for the same stuff? BTW, these same oil companies are being forced to renegotiate in hostile countries as well (e.g. Venezuela, Russia, Nigeria, etc...).

 

[hellokeith]

Originally posted by: Dari

Oil companies don't invent anything.

:shocked: :laugh:

 

[marincounty]

Originally posted by: hellokeith
Intel has been making really big profits. Obama should take those profits and buy every person a new computer with an AMD processor in it and Linux preinstalled.

Exxon profit $11.68 billion, Intel profit $1.6 billion.


Republicans have been loudly bemoaning high gas prices as of late, but, not surprisingly, the only proposals they offer are the same ones backed by the oil companies. And then when they have a chance to actually lower the price of gas, they revert to their same old ways. Last Friday, Democrats in the Senate brought up a bill to lower gas prices by cracking down on oil speculators -- who experts say have needlessly driven up the price of oil -- and could only muster 50 votes, with nearly every Republican Senator voting to stop the bill from advancing.

Text

 

[quest55720]

Originally posted by: marincounty

Originally posted by: hellokeith
Intel has been making really big profits. Obama should take those profits and buy every person a new computer with an AMD processor in it and Linux preinstalled.

Exxon profit $11.68 billion, Intel profit $1.6 billion.


Republicans have been loudly bemoaning high gas prices as of late, but, not surprisingly, the only proposals they offer are the same ones backed by the oil companies. And then when they have a chance to actually lower the price of gas, they revert to their same old ways. Last Friday, Democrats in the Senate brought up a bill to lower gas prices by cracking down on oil speculators -- who experts say have needlessly driven up the price of oil -- and could only muster 50 votes, with nearly every Republican Senator voting to stop the bill from advancing.

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The republicans are the only ones who want to do everything. They have agreed on more regulation for speculators if they allow a vote on drilling. Sounds pretty damn fair to me both sides can claim victory but the dems will not allow any vote on drilling. Pelosi/Reid/Obama know if any vote does take place it will pass.


Windfall profits will either be paid by the consumer or by the big oil companies shutting down domestic production to lower profits. Either way prices will go up from windfall profits on oil companies. This is one of the worst ideas ever I really hope obama can come up with better ideas if he wins. If not he will be a 1 term president and the republicans will have complete control again.

 

[BoberFett]

Intel's profit was $1.6B on revenue of $9.5B. That's a 17% profit margin.

Clearly they're charging us too much and need to be taxed for their windfall.

You dummies bemoan the price of oil, and then in the next breath demand we use less. Well fuck, why would I use less if it's cheap? If gas is cheap and they increase mileage standards, people will just drive that much more. They'll move further out to the sticks, commute huge distances for work. The logical disconnect in the oil haters is unbelievable.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: BoberFett
Intel's profit was $1.6B on revenue of $9.5B. That's a 17% profit margin.

Clearly they're charging us too much and need to be taxed for their windfall.

You dummies bemoan the price of oil, and then in the next breath demand we use less. Well fuck, why would I use less if it's cheap? If gas is cheap and they increase mileage standards, people will just drive that much more. They'll move further out to the sticks, commute huge distances for work. The logical disconnect in the oil haters is unbelievable.

Uh... unless I'm missing something, I didn't see any 'oil haters' bemoaning the price of oil and demanding it be cheap. In fact, a better argument against them would seem to be they'd prefer to see it stay high for exactly the reasons you gave. So this is kinda out of left field here from ya.

As for people who commute huge distances for work.... even if gas were cheap, they must think their time is worth nothing. I hate commuting personally. Gas could be free and there's still no way I'd do a long commute. It's not that I don't love driving (I do), I just hate traffic.

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: hellokeith
Intel has been making really big profits. Obama should take those profits and buy every person a new computer with an AMD processor in it and Linux preinstalled.

:laugh:

Oil companies don't invent anything. They simply get rights to dig the stuff out of the ground. Why should they benefit so much when others are paying a lot for the same stuff? BTW, these same oil companies are being forced to renegotiate in hostile countries as well (e.g. Venezuela, Russia, Nigeria, etc...).

is it time to nationalize d'anconia copper?

 

[StageLeft]

As for people who commute huge distances for work.... even if gas were cheap, they must think their time is worth nothing. I hate commuting personally. Gas could be free and there's still no way I'd do a long commute. It's not that I don't love driving (I do), I just hate traffic.

I've long held the opinion that people who tolerate long commutes are lacking soul and spirituality; something in their life was not instilled at the correct point in development that told them spending 45-60 minutes in the car each way each day (or worse) is to be avoided. These people are sick and should be sanitized from us.

 

[Oceandevi]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

As for people who commute huge distances for work.... even if gas were cheap, they must think their time is worth nothing. I hate commuting personally. Gas could be free and there's still no way I'd do a long commute. It's not that I don't love driving (I do), I just hate traffic.

I've long held the opinion that people who tolerate long commutes are lacking soul and spirituality; something in their life was not instilled at the correct point in development that told them spending 45-60 minutes in the car each way each day (or worse) is to be avoided. These people are sick and should be sanitized from us.

Or they choose to suffer for reasons of their own. I don't really care what they do.

This is theft though, this plan. I don't think it should be allowed.

 

[Jamie571]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Darwin333
I couldn't agree more. Although this is probably a topic for another thread, I am curious about your conclusion.

The Dems already control the Legislative branch and are looking to pick up more seats. Add in a Dem controlled Executive branch and a single faction has just as much, if not more, power than the mess we just got out of (a single party controlling both branches).

The dynamic is not that simple. For one thing, the Dems don't control the legislative, they have a slim majority. While the Pubs have 100% control in the executive at this point. Big difference. The Executive also controls all the operations of the govt BTW. The 3 branches of govt are by no means equal, just ask the Supreme Court.

Basically, my issue is that the Pubs have held the Executive for the past 8 years on the basis of lies and aggressive propaganda. They have legions of ultra-loyal followers who believe whatever the party mouthpieces tell them even as the party's actions and agendas are repeatedly in direct contradiction to what their followers believe. These followers have become so zealous in protecting their party loyalty that every lie by the Pubs only strengthens their resolve that much more. It has, in short, become all about egos and emotions and almost nothing about issues and reality. Obama has got nothing on Bush when it comes to being the Messiah of his people (an irony of the Obamessiah rhetoric IMO is that Bush was actually hailed as Moses by the religious right in 2000).
And to them, believing what they are told and not what they see, everything is an upside-down world of lies, where liberalism and actual free markets are the same as communism (but our current heavily socialized economy is a 'free' market), where their freedom of religion is under attack when they're not allowed to push their religious beliefs on other peoples' children in the public schools or to control women's bodies, where freedom can only be protected by invading it and destroying it, where war profiteering is considered patriotic while actually getting back at the people who attacked us on 9/11 is argued against, and (most importantly IMO) where "small government" is growing the size and cost of government faster than any President since FDR during WWII (Bush has actually increased spending faster that FDR did during the New Deal).

IMO any retention of control by such people at this point would be too much. It's like letting the blind guy in the car drive... but worse. However, as they will retain a large measure of control, and their zealous followers will retain their voice and numbers (I expect Obama Derangement Syndrome to break all records for political whining), and as the problems they have caused in this country are far too numerous and deep to be solved by the other party in 4 short years, the Pubs will retain more than sufficient power to keep the Dems in balance. Hell, giving the Dems the election would probably be doing themselves a favor.

OTOH, if the Pubs do retain the Executive this year, then that will be a triumph not for any single party, but for the willful and open use of all their immoral political tactics. Our republic will basically be history.

Vic your posts are leaning hard left these days. Not sure but they seem more influenced than your postings from a few months ago. They seem less insightful and more copy and paste from far left blogs. I don't enjoy reading them as much as I did a year ago. I mean no offense.

Half of your post could've described either party.

Back to the OP's thread. At this point either candidate will say just about anything to get elected which is to be expected (Even though half of it sounds like they are talking to a 14 year old). All a person can do is read between the lines and see how the candidates thought process works.

Today it is $1000 check and offshore drilling. I'm sure next month will be something else.:roll:

Personally I don?t think handing out checks is the answer. People will just use the extra money to drive more and increase oil demand thus raising the gasoline prices and possibly lowering the value of the dollar. And then what give out another check? Demand for gasoline has fallen and thus helped to drive the prices lower. If they want to see a stronger economy the candidates should focus on strengthening the US dollar. Besides I'm still trying to decide what to do with the last check along with all the commodities that I've sold the last few months.

Oh and I think this republic will endure whoever is elected

 

[JJChicken]

Originally posted by: hellokeith
Intel has been making really big profits. Obama should take those profits and buy every person a new computer with an AMD processor in it and Linux preinstalled.

Seems like a waste of a computer then. Just give us all nehalem-based pcs with vista premium (or xp for the haters)

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Jamie571
Vic your posts are leaning hard left these days. Not sure but they seem more influenced than your postings from a few months ago. They seem less insightful and more copy and paste from far left blogs. I don't enjoy reading them as much as I did a year ago. I mean no offense.

I don't know who you are, but I don't read any blogs, left-wing or right.
If you wish to copy and paste my words into google, I'm sure you won't get any hits besides my posts, so please don't accuse me of copying and pasting from others. Thanks.

As for not enjoying my words anymore, they haven't actually changed much except for my urgency. I have always been a true liberal and damn proud of that too. Liberty for all means everybody. A few years ago, I kept having to explain liberalism to the self-professed liberals here, but I could have counted on at least some of the conservatives to still have a grasp of what liberalism means and how it should work. Unfortunately, I don't even see that any more. Well except maybe from bamacre but he's an idealist

As for the republic holding up, I think you misunderstood me. I'm not worried about America. It will endure, probably forever. But so did Rome more than 400 years after its republic failed. Likewise America, as our vigilance fails, will endure but not as the republic it was meant to be.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Jamie571
Vic your posts are leaning hard left these days. Not sure but they seem more influenced than your postings from a few months ago. They seem less insightful and more copy and paste from far left blogs. I don't enjoy reading them as much as I did a year ago. I mean no offense.

As for not enjoying my words anymore, they haven't actually changed much except for my urgency. I have always been a true liberal and damn proud of that too. Liberty for all means everybody. A few years ago, I kept having to explain liberalism to the self-professed liberals here, but I could have counted on at least some of the conservatives to still have a grasp of what liberalism means and how it should work. Unfortunately, I don't even see that any more. Well except maybe from bamacre but he's an idealist

Unfortunately vic you have become far more partisan and far less insightful with your comments. Maybe that Vic will come back after this election cycle is over.

 

[spittledip]

Originally posted by: CalvinHobbes
I support this, it's like a nation wide profit sharing plan. You could also consider it a dividend payment on our investment in the big oil companies.

Exactly.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: charrison
Unfortunately vic you have become far more partisan and far less insightful with your comments. Maybe that Vic will come back after this election cycle is over.

Sorry, but even though I saw the writing on the wall in 2004 I was nice and played the Anybody But Bush thing, and got nowhere.
I was a big backer of the Libertarian party for a long time back when Harry Browne was still around but now that party is just a joke of its former self. The new George Wallace party I call it.
I wanted to look to the Republicans but they are unrepentant about Bush and their corruption while they were in firm control of the country. And even worse, its extreme authoritarian factions have been increasingly powerful, particularly the secular and aggressively nationalistic or separatist. Hey, we're ALL of us Americans here in this country.

Brother, that's a perfect storm called Obama.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: charrison
Unfortunately vic you have become far more partisan and far less insightful with your comments. Maybe that Vic will come back after this election cycle is over.

Sorry, but even though I saw the writing on the wall in 2004 I was nice and played the Anybody But Bush thing, and got nowhere.
I was a bigger backer of the Libertarian party for a long time back when Harry Browne was still around but now that party is just a joke of its former self. The new George Wallace party I call it.
I wanted to look to the Republicans but they are unrepentant about Bush and their corruption while they were in firm control of the country. And even worse, its extreme authoritarian factions have been increasingly powerful, particularly the secular and aggressively nationalistic or separatist. Hey, we're ALL of us Americans here in this country.

Brother, that's a perfect storm called Obama.

Firm control? While they had control of 3 branches of goverment, they had it with razor thin majority in the house and senate. A few defections or filibuster put an end to some of the good things they wanted done. But you are right, the repubs did squander their success.


But obama is not going to save us, just more of the same with a different label. Just look for more taxes, regulation and spending, you know all the things that should piss off a libertarian.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: charrison
Firm control? While they had control of 3 branches of goverment, they had it with razor thin majority in the house and senate. A few defections or filibuster put an end to some of the good things they wanted done. But you are right, the repubs did squander their success.

But obama is not going to save us, just more of the same with a different label. Just look for more taxes, regulation and spending, you know all the things that should piss off a libertarian.

More of the same is fine IMO as long as it's a different name. I don't want to be 'saved' but thanks.

But... we are guaranteed more taxes, regulation, spending at this point. Thanks mostly to your guys. And I just don't want to reward the people that lied to us that they wouldn't do that and then when right ahead and did do that. That make sense?

Basically, the Pubs promised to be libertarian this time, turned out to be absolutely ruthless authoritarians (admittedly I wasn't too surprised given similar past circumstances), and yet its supporters are still convinced that its THE libertarian party. After all this. At this point, any rational person has to be genuinely concerned that your leaders could do whatever draconian thing they wanted, like I don't know imprison millions for no reason, or nuke some country that never attacked us, or implement the most corrupt economic measures, and you'd still apologize for that too. No matter what.

It's a little too much self-dishonesty for my tastes. Maybe if you tried to walk your talk...

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: charrison
Firm control? While they had control of 3 branches of goverment, they had it with razor thin majority in the house and senate. A few defections or filibuster put an end to some of the good things they wanted done. But you are right, the repubs did squander their success.

But obama is not going to save us, just more of the same with a different label. Just look for more taxes, regulation and spending, you know all the things that should piss off a libertarian.

More of the same is fine IMO as long as it's a different name. I don't want to be 'saved' but thanks.

But... we are guaranteed more taxes, regulation, spending at this point. Thanks mostly to your guys. And I just don't want to reward the people that lied to us that they wouldn't do that and then when right ahead and did do that. That make sense?

Basically, the Pubs promised to be libertarian this time, turned out to be absolutely ruthless authoritarians (admittedly I wasn't too surprised given similar past circumstances), and yet its supporters are still convinced that its THE libertarian party. After all this. At this point, any rational person has to be genuinely concerned that your leaders could do whatever draconian thing they wanted, like I don't know imprison millions for no reason, or nuke some country that never attacked us, or implement the most corrupt economic measures, and you'd still apologize for that too. No matter what.

It's a little too much self-dishonesty for my tastes. Maybe if you tried to walk your talk...

Well vic, i walk my talk. I am not rewarding republicans for their problems in recent years, but I am not going to vote for worse option either. When the republican party starts acting like conservatives again they will get more than my vote as support.

As far as being an apologist, I am not one. I am and have been quite critical of the republican party where it has failed. But if calling someone who disagrees with you an apologist makes you feel better....

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: charrison
Well vic, i walk my talk. I am not rewarding republicans for their problems in recent years, but I am not going to vote for worse option either. When the republican party starts acting like conservatives again they will get more than my vote as support.

As far as being an apologist, I am not one. I am and have been quite critical of the republican party where it has failed. But if calling someone who disagrees with you an apologist makes you feel better....

It's not personal with you. If it was, we wouldn't be having this discussion. And even then, I'm not one to confuse the parties with partisans on the internet.
And yaknow, that's the thing about representative democracy that is being undermined. We're not keeping our representatives in check, calling them to task when they betray us. And why not? Apparently, for fear of looking wrong to people we don't even know.

 

[Fox5]

Originally posted by: CalvinHobbes
I support this, it's like a nation wide profit sharing plan. You could also consider it a dividend payment on our investment in the big oil companies.

I don't think even big oil has the money to pay $1000 to every family. 50 million families = 50 * 10^6 * 10^3 = 50 billion

Besides, shouldn't the money be redistributed based off of amount of gas purchased?

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Fox5

Originally posted by: CalvinHobbes
I support this, it's like a nation wide profit sharing plan. You could also consider it a dividend payment on our investment in the big oil companies.

I don't think even big oil has the money to pay $1000 to every family. 50 million families = 50 * 10^6 * 10^3 = 50 billion

Besides, shouldn't the money be redistributed based off of amount of gas purchased?

Should be based on gas reciepts.

I'll take my $1,000 check please

TIA

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: charrison
Well vic, i walk my talk. I am not rewarding republicans for their problems in recent years, but I am not going to vote for worse option either. When the republican party starts acting like conservatives again they will get more than my vote as support.

As far as being an apologist, I am not one. I am and have been quite critical of the republican party where it has failed. But if calling someone who disagrees with you an apologist makes you feel better....

It's not personal with you. If it was, we wouldn't be having this discussion. And even then, I'm not one to confuse the parties with partisans on the internet.
And yaknow, that's the thing about representative democracy that is being undermined. We're not keeping our representatives in check, calling them to task when they betray us. And why not? Apparently, for fear of looking wrong to people we don't even know.

I know it is not personal, but your arguments have become less articulate and far more partisan. And yes I do my best to hold my reps accountable...

 

[Budmantom]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: charrison
Well vic, i walk my talk. I am not rewarding republicans for their problems in recent years, but I am not going to vote for worse option either. When the republican party starts acting like conservatives again they will get more than my vote as support.

As far as being an apologist, I am not one. I am and have been quite critical of the republican party where it has failed. But if calling someone who disagrees with you an apologist makes you feel better....

It's not personal with you. If it was, we wouldn't be having this discussion. And even then, I'm not one to confuse the parties with partisans on the internet.
And yaknow, that's the thing about representative democracy that is being undermined. We're not keeping our representatives in check, calling them to task when they betray us. And why not? Apparently, for fear of looking wrong to people we don't even know.

I know it is not personal, but your arguments have become less articulate and far more partisan. And yes I do my best to hold my reps accountable...

Vic does that a lot, he would much rather insult you than discuss the topic at hand.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Budmantom

Vic does that a lot, he would much rather insult you than discuss the topic at hand.

You mean like how you never discuss the topic at hand?

 

[Throckmorton]

Originally posted by: herm0016

Originally posted by: CalvinHobbes
I support this, it's like a nation wide profit sharing plan. You could also consider it a dividend payment on our investment in the big oil companies.

you can also consider it communism at its finest. everybody works, everybody gets their share right?

What do you call subsidies and public land that oil companies drill on? Let me guess, the government redistributing wealth from the people to the corporations is "capitalism" and distributing it the other way is "communism"?