Obama calls small town Americans bitter

[Brigandier]

Originally posted by: OrByte

but lets see what people have to say about Obama's comment. Personally I think people are chomping at the bit to call him an elitist.

If we didn't vote for elitists, Washington would be empty.

 

[b0mbrman]

Why should they be bitter?

Everything's fine...

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Evan Lieb

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Painman
Obama response now up on Youtube

Take from it whatever you will.

*shrugs*

Watching that, I do not see how people can delude themselves into believing that this man does not deserve to be POTUS.

Meh. I mean, I'm sure the guy is more qualified than the current POTUS, and more qualified than McCain and Clinton in many ways. But it's impossible to tell, you really have to be a fortune teller of sorts (in terms of ascertaining ability and character) when it comes to electing officials to high office. I will say that I believe him more than McCain. As far as Hillary goes I just don't believe a word she says.

Of course I meant that it in comparison to his 2 opponents. If we had better choices... well, we could always hope for that.

And he can speak, can't he? I gotta tell you -- as a professional opinion -- that his voice is a thing of beauty and wonder IMO. I could only dream of such speaking abilities. Hell, that's beyond speaking abilities. That, folks, is Statemanship and with a capital S.

Yeap, if POTUS is decided by speaches and speaking abilities, Obama would be your man.

Nothing wrong with that. Think of all the best Presidents this country has had and almost all of them were excellent speakers as well. While most of the bad ones weren't good speakers. I suppose that says more about the whims of public opinion than anything else, but is that really a bad thing? The very quality of a leader is to lead, and you can't do that if you can't communicate to people.

 

[OrByte]

Here is a snippet of a response from McCain's group: Text

Tucker Bounds, a spokesman for McCain, said Friday: "Only an elitist would say that people vote their values only out of frustration. ... You can't be more out of touch than that."

But that isn't what Obama said. IMHO Obama was commenting on the frustration of small town americans on government. And since nothing positive is being done by our government on issues like taxes, healthcare, poverty, and jobs people gave up on washington to solve those issues.

Only thing left at that point is to care about those WEDGE issues that our politicians like to use to stay in power...gays, illegals, guns, blah blah :barf;

and so far that is my interpretation...I don't see how Obama is wrong on this. But I'm trying...

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Dari


You sure do know how to say "yes" and "no" at the same time. Please, enlighten us as to what the issue is?

I didn't take issue with the "bitter" part but that's what you BHO lappers keep trying to make it about. No doubt some are bitter - it's stupid to suggest there aren't some and I've never made that sort of argument.

If that isn't the issue, then what is? You called him an "elitest" but basically admitted that what he said was true. Your argument is very weak here.

No, I didn't say what he said was true - that is what you lappers are saying. Did you read what he said? No, not the "bitter" part - the part right after that starting with "they"

Sheesh, I swear you people have become so enamored with the thought of BHO being President that you have turned off your ears and just nod your head to everything he says...

How about we get some actual substance from BHO instead of these class warfare platitudes and soundbites?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: OrByte
Here is a snippet of a response from McCain's group: Text

Tucker Bounds, a spokesman for McCain, said Friday: "Only an elitist would say that people vote their values only out of frustration. ... You can't be more out of touch than that."

But that isn't what Obama said. IMHO Obama was commenting on the frustration of small town americans on government. And since nothing positive is being done by our government on issues like taxes, healthcare, poverty, and jobs people gave up on washington to solve those issues.

Only thing left at that point is to care about those WEDGE issues that our politicians like to use to stay in power...gays, illegals, guns, blah blah :barf;

and so far that is my interpretation...I don't see how Obama is wrong on this. But I'm trying...

They're gonna spin that all they want, and be partially successful too unfortunately. Because what Obama is saying is that Bush fscked small-town America more than any other single group. And true as it is, OMG they don't want to hear that, it might mean being accountable for their mistakes.

 

[spittledip]

Originally posted by: chowderhead
are anti-immigrant too

Here is Barrack Obama speaking at a San Francisco fundraiser trying to say that people in the small towns in Pennsylvania and the midwest are bitter because they have lost jobs and now cling to guns and God and are anti-immigrant as a result.

"And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."

Way to be condescending there Obama! Speaking at a San Francisco fundraiser and lecturing small town folks why they are anti-immigrant or pro-gun rights. This is exactly the elitist thinking/argument that got us Kerry and Dukakis. How is he going to win over Reagan Democrats and blue collar folks if he is going to lecture about why they are supposedly bitter and presumably not voting Democratic?

He might be right about that. That is not being condescending, especially if it is true.

 

[CPA]

Originally posted by: loki8481
Obama's the only hope our country has, and it's pretty telling that people are looking for any excuse to lynch him, even if he's just telling the truth.

hope for what, exactly?

 

[Jhhnn]

From Vic-

They're gonna spin that all they want, and be partially successful too unfortunately. Because what Obama is saying is that Bush fscked small-town America more than any other single group. And true as it is, OMG they don't want to hear that, it might mean being accountable for their mistakes.

Very accurate, as were Obama's initial remarks. The palpable waves of denial from the usual suspects are proof enough.

And CSG waves the "Class Warfare" tarbrush, as usual, smearing anybody in reach. The only accurate comment I've ever heard on the issue was from Warren Buffet, in a NYT interview-

Even though I agreed with him, I warned that whenever someone tried to raise the issue, he or she was accused of fomenting class warfare.

?There?s class warfare, all right,? Mr. Buffett said, ?but it?s my class, the rich class, that?s making war, and we?re winning.?

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11...partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

 

[Praxis1452]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
...

That doesn't change how elitist/ condescending his statement is.

I find it interesting that you call his ideas elitist, yet you don't say he's wrong. While you're doing a great job proving that conservatives are just as PC as liberals (just about different topics), I think it's important for politicians to not be dissuaded from telling the truth just because it might hurt someone's feelings. And I think that there is something wrong with the politics in much of "small town America". Most Democrats are willing to write them off and most Republicans are willing to exploit them for their votes, I'm glad Obama is willing to say that something needs to change, particularly since I'm a liberal. I think "small town America" should be overwhelmingly Democrat, and the fact that that's not true is a problem that should be addressed.

I believe that Bismarck always bet on the idea that the lower/poorer classes were conservative. It seems true today as it did back then.

Could be wrong, anyone with any more info?

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Amazing how Obama can say something 100% true and it turns into a controversy.

That's cause the truth hurts when you're living in denial.

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
The more this guy campaigns, the more I like the fucker.

Yep. I didn't come around to him right away either. But then I realized that, for the first time in my life, we finally had a Presidential candidate who actually had the balls to tell the truth. And that's why all the hate as well, of course. They just want yet another bought-and-paid-for doofus in the White House who will spout patriotic catchphrases while continuing the practice of selling off our country piece-by-piece to foreign interests. See Bush, see McCain. Look, ma, who would have thought your boy could grow up to be President of the United States!

what do you expect?

these people are so bitter and afraid of change that they're going to grasp onto any life raft of hate that comes their way, even (especially?) if it's these swiftboat tactics.

 

[ericlp]

Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Amazing how Obama can say something 100% true and it turns into a controversy.

You mean, you don't want McCain to be your next president?

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: loki8481
Obama's the only hope our country has, and it's pretty telling that people are looking for any excuse to lynch him, even if he's just telling the truth.

hope for what, exactly?

if you really understood it, you wouldn't have to ask.

and if you can't understand it now, you probably never will.

 

[trenchfoot]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Too bad many stations won't play his response, yet continue to play Clinton's response. He just smacked them down, big time.

seems to me with the media's agenda in mind, that they are going to wring this one bone dry before they let up on him and allow his retort appreciable air time. but who knows? the reasons are many and the agendas conflicting and complex strategy-wise.

this is a good test to see which station(s) will exploit this for ratings vs. which stations actually are concerned about proivding "fair and balanced" news coverage. (none of the above?)

and what's hilarious is that i hear some talking heads on the various news channels speaking about how 'ol bill's loose tongue is resurrecting hillary's bosnia tall tale and making things worse when the furor of it had waned, as if to say that they themselves had nothing to do with how long and hard that little embellished tale of heroism of hillary's went for.

 

[Brigandier]

Originally posted by: tweaker2

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Too bad many stations won't play his response, yet continue to play Clinton's response. He just smacked them down, big time.

seems to me with the media's agenda in mind, that they are going to wring this one bone dry before they let up on him and allow his retort appreciable air time. but who knows? the reasons are many and the agendas conflicting and complex strategy-wise.

this is a good test to see which station(s) will exploit this for ratings vs. which stations actually are concerned about proivding "fair and balanced" news coverage. (none of the above?)

and what's hilarious is that i hear some talking heads on the various news channels speaking about how 'ol bill's loose tongue is resurrecting hillary's bosnia tall tale and making things worse when the furor of it had waned, as if to say that they themselves had nothing to do with how long and hard that little embellished tale of heroism of hillary's went for.

I always laugh when news networks comment on storms of their own creating. Every time Fox News mentions Wright, they preface it with, "So far, nothing Obama has done has lessened fthe furor over this issue." THEY are the ones creating all furor over it, if they would shut the hell up, the controversy would wane.

 

[Painman]

Originally posted by: Brigandier
I always laugh when news networks comment on storms of their own creating. Every time Fox News mentions Wright, they preface it with, "So far, nothing Obama has done has lessened fthe furor over this issue." THEY are the ones creating all furor over it, if they would shut the hell up, the controversy would wane.

:thumbsup:

QFMFT

 

[ProfJohn]

Obama is doomed.

This is just another small little mistake that will add up to his losing in the fall.

 

[glutenberg]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Obama is doomed.

This is just another small little mistake that will add up to his losing in the fall.

Well, now that ProfJohn has deemed it doomed, I guess it's over guys. Hang up the towel.

Basically my first post stands. Take a step back and re-read what he said. It has nothing to do with elitism towards small town folk but everything to do with voting on basically non-issues because issues that truly effect them are tossed to the back because people don't feel like they have a say. This basically parallels the management compensation thread. If people don't feel like they have any power to make a change, they become bitter and disenfranchised. This is obviously what he's saying but somehow some of you have twisted this into him saying that small town folk are ignorant. How old are you people? Pick up a book for goodness sake.

 

[ProfJohn]

gluten... if you own guns or go to church and live in a small town you are now 'bitter'

It does not mater what Obama meant to say, it is what he said that will count in the long run. When you have to go and explain things you have already said you are moving backwards. John Kerry can tell you how crippling that can be to your campaign.

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Obama is doomed.

This is just another small little mistake that will add up to his losing in the fall.

I think you're kidding yourself.

the more Americans that are exposed to the most brilliant politician since Lincoln, the more we're going to rally around Change and Hope.

 

[glutenberg]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
gluten... if you own guns or go to church and live in a small town you are now 'bitter'

It does not mater what Obama meant to say, it is what he said that will count in the long run. When you have to go and explain things you have already said you are moving backwards. John Kerry can tell you how crippling that can be to your campaign.

He said that people who are bitter due to feeling disenfranchised by politics will cling onto non-issues not that people who cling onto non-issues are bitter. There's a very distinct difference between the two arguments. You are committing a logical fallacy by reversing the argument. Just because you interpreted it incorrectly does not mean that you're right and that's why Obama had to go on air to explain it to those who enjoy hopping on the "I like twisting people's words" bandwagon.

 

[ProfJohn]

^ The fact that you have to "explain" what Obama meant is the problem here.

Most people will not sit around and wait for some pointy headed intellectual to explain to them what Obama really meant. They will read the words and decide for themselves.

You can try to explain away his comments all day long but in the end people will see/hear this "they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren't like them" and will be insulted by it.

BTW it is kind of humorous for a guy who spent 20 years in a church lead by a racist to accuse others of clinging to religion or having antipathy towards people who aren't like them.
Remove the 'guns' bit and it sounds like Obama just described his own church.

 

[chowderhead]

Originally posted by: glutenberg

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
gluten... if you own guns or go to church and live in a small town you are now 'bitter'

It does not mater what Obama meant to say, it is what he said that will count in the long run. When you have to go and explain things you have already said you are moving backwards. John Kerry can tell you how crippling that can be to your campaign.

He said that people who are bitter due to feeling disenfranchised by politics will cling onto non-issues not that people who cling onto non-issues are bitter. There's a very distinct difference between the two arguments. You are committing a logical fallacy by reversing the argument. Just because you interpreted it incorrectly does not mean that you're right and that's why Obama had to go on air to explain it to those who enjoy hopping on the "I like twisting people's words" bandwagon.

To you, gun rights, religion and illegal immigration may be non-issues, but they are important issues to many people. You can argue why people think these are issues/non-issues, but being condescending and dismissive about what is important to different voters is exactly the point of this thread.

Obama asked voters to trust his judgment with regards to his relationship with Reverend Wright. Why should I give him that benefit when he is so dismissive of small town folks who feel strongly about gun rights or their own religion, when he himself clings to Reverend Wright and that Church.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: loki8481

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Obama is doomed.

This is just another small little mistake that will add up to his losing in the fall.

I think you're kidding yourself.

the more Americans that are exposed to the most brilliant politician since Lincoln, the more we're going to rally around Change and Hope.

Brilliant in what way?

How many times were we told that Hillary is the smartest woman in the room?

How many times have we been told that Bush is an idiot?

Our last election was between the drunk and the brilliant French speaking war hero John Kerry, need I remind you of who won?

It has been shown MANY times that people will vote for the person they can relate to and trust and the person they would be most comfortable having a beer with.

Clinton won because Bush 41 was seen as distant and removed from the problems of the average American.
Bush won because Gore was seen as wooden.
Bush won again because Kerry was also seen as an unappealing intellectual.

If the election comes down to the very appealing and likable McCain who says what he means and isn't afraid to go against his own party and Obama who has to stop and explain everything because the people are to stupid to understand what he meant then McCain is going to win.

 

[1prophet]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: loki8481

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Obama is doomed.

This is just another small little mistake that will add up to his losing in the fall.

I think you're kidding yourself.

the more Americans that are exposed to the most brilliant politician since Lincoln, the more we're going to rally around Change and Hope.

Brilliant in what way?

How many times were we told that Hillary is the smartest woman in the room?

How many times have we been told that Bush is an idiot?

Our last election was between the drunk and the brilliant French speaking war hero John Kerry, need I remind you of who won?

It has been shown MANY times that people will vote for the person they can relate to and trust and the person they would be most comfortable having a beer with.

Clinton won because Bush 41 was seen as distant and removed from the problems of the average American.
Bush won because Gore was seen as wooden.
Bush won again because Kerry was also seen as an unappealing intellectual.

If the election comes down to the very appealing and likable McCain who says what he means and isn't afraid to go against his own party and Obama who has to stop and explain everything because the people are to stupid to understand what he meant then McCain is going to win.

Dumb down the public enough over the years so that likeable is more important than respectable and you could sell them anything like high price mortgages or politicians that tell them what they want to hear at the expense of themselves.

2 Timothy 4:3
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears