Obama Care is a disaster

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dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally Posted by dmcowen674
Originally Posted by michal1980
amazing your a moderator of anything. Maybe the hoffenington post.

But you have the typical liberal mentality; Don't like the message just dismiss the messenger.


Quoted for Bridge Sale contract



Did I ever abuse my authority that you could point to? What can you recall of my punishing you?

I won't say, tired of bannings and infarctions, gets really old.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
In my case you can't say, and in any event you are still here.

I'm saying all this not to elevate myself above others because heaven knows I screwed some things up, sometimes badly. Others have too, but there are always things that people aren't aware of. Sometimes there is substantial disagreement and no one, me included is infallible. What I will say is that the overwhelming majority does a pretty damn good job, and really tries. I stand on that statement. Now until any new staff proves unable, he or she has my support. I'm not in a position to cast stones and neither are you.

I've diverted too much from the OP, so this is my last word here on the subject.
 

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,293
1
76
Actually healthcare cost inflation has gone down. How much is attributable to Obamacare is hard to say.

But one things for sure, there's no way to evaluate it until its implemented and working for a few years.

All the criticism its getting now is no different than the criticism health care reform has gotten for 60 or 70 years.

1. its criticized by healthy people, mostly the young, who don't think they'll ever need healthcare.

2. its criticized by the majority of people with health insurance, who get it through their employer, because the true cost is hidden from them so they don't see the problem for what it really is.

3. its criticized by the healthcare industry for obvious reasons.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
I'm glad you asked:



I haven't seen one credible source that claims this. Every credible actuarial report I've seen, and I've seen lots (Milliman, Gorman, Kaiser Family Foundation, etc) indicates that insurance coverage will go up, considerably. The estimates of the increase may have been adjusted down, but that means the increase is smaller, not that the total number is smaller, which this statement claims.



I haven't seen one credible source that claims this. Every credible actuarial report I've seen, and I've seen lots (Milliman, Gorman, Kaiser Family Foundation, etc) indicates that premiums will go, some quite a bit, but average rate increases will be in the double digits and even the most extreme averages will be in the lower triple digits. You might be able to find one outlier with such an incredible increase, but it certainly isn't representative of the population, which your statement would indicate.



This is partially true; gross insurance premiums will be much less affordable than initially indicated, but since the demographics the law panders to will get free coverage (Medicaid expansion) or almost free coverage (advance premium tax credits) they will see it as being affordable even though the cost to society isn't. So, really, it's a matter of perspective.



This is a very fungible claim. There was always a personal choice component in that someone could elect to pay the penalty. If you had said "fewer people than promised will get access to insurance" I would still say it's a fungible claim. Do you consider Medicaid to be "insurance"? Technically, it's not, so the fact that many states won't expand Medicaid means that more people will get access to insurance since those between 100% and 138% FPL who would have been Medicaid eligible will now be eligible for insurance.



This was intentional.



I've already gone over this in another thread, but the article this claim stems from was intellectually dishonest. The IRS never made this claim. The IRS did issue guidelines with examples of how the various calculations worked, and this scenario was an included example, but that is not the same as actually making this as a factual claim.



The premise of these statements is confused and wrong. The IRS did not rule that kids won't be covered. The administration did not say that family coverage won't be required. ACA §1513(a) amends Chapter 43 of IRC to add §4980H(a)(1), which requires employers to "offer full time employees (and their dependents) the opportunity to enroll in minimum essential coverage". Dependent coverage is clearly afforded under the law.

The quoted statements confuse this matter with the regulations offering definitions on the matter, and then makes incorrect assumptions about the applicability.

In defining "dependents" as used in §4980H(a)(1), the IRS followed existed interpretation to determine that the term included children in most forms but did not include spouses.

The IRS regulations did say that the affordability calculation is based only on the employee.

The combination, then, is that children must be offered coverage, but that coverage need not be "affordable". You could certainly lament this outcome, but I point out that this is clearly not the outcome quoted above to illustrate the incorrectness of the quote.
Thank you, once again, for your knowledgeable and highly informative posts on the ACA.
 

Charles Kozierok

Elite Member
May 14, 2012
6,762
1
0
I'm saying all this not to elevate myself above others because heaven knows I screwed some things up, sometimes badly. Others have too, but there are always things that people aren't aware of. Sometimes there is substantial disagreement and no one, me included is infallible. What I will say is that the overwhelming majority does a pretty damn good job, and really tries. I stand on that statement. Now until any new staff proves unable, he or she has my support. I'm not in a position to cast stones and neither are you.

The admins here have the patience of a buddha. I literally have never elsewhere seen the admins on a board of this size bend over backwards to be fair and to give second chances to people who really haven't earned it.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
$23,000 for MRI's doesn't sound like costs dropping to me.

I'd be interested in the particulars of that statement. I've had them and I look at my bills. Nothing close. If someone paid that much just for an MRI, then it bears looking into.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally Posted by dmcowen674
$23,000 for MRI's doesn't sound like costs dropping to me.


I'd be interested in the particulars of that statement. I've had them and I look at my bills. Nothing close. If someone paid that much just for an MRI, then it bears looking into.

Not one but two.

They charged $23,000 for debi's MRI and $23,000 for my MRI after the motorcycle accident. Plus another $10,000 for all the other ER stuff.
 

nextJin

Golden Member
Apr 16, 2009
1,848
0
0
Originally Posted by dmcowen674
$23,000 for MRI's doesn't sound like costs dropping to me.




Not one but two.

They charged $23,000 for debi's MRI and $23,000 for my MRI after the motorcycle accident. Plus another $10,000 for all the other ER stuff.

What hospital?
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
Osecola Regional Medical in Kissimee

Did you get a breakdown of the bill? I'm asking because the devil may be in the details, meaning was it for just the scan or were other associated costs rolled into it? Also is that the amount billed or paid?
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Did you get a breakdown of the bill? I'm asking because the devil may be in the details, meaning was it for just the scan or were other associated costs rolled into it? Also is that the amount billed or paid?

That is individual detailed billing.

$1000 paid to the Hospital by Progressive Motorcycle insurance which apparently was the maximum coverage.

$9,000 paid to the Hospital by my work insurance (and they say that is the maximum coverage) and they sent letters from attorneys to me and debi that they want the $9,000 back. Like we got it personally or some shit. It went to the Hospital, we never got a penny sent to us.

Billing continues to pour in for the outstanding roughly $40,000 +
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Crap dude that sucks.

Imagine if there was something that actually required either of us to be admitted?

Imagine if there was an injury that they could actually do anything about?

We both had broken ribs and her a broken collar bone as well.

Nothing that could be casted or anything.

Just given a few pain pills.

This country is just plain nuts, nothing else could be said.
 

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,293
1
76
Originally Posted by dmcowen674
$23,000 for MRI's doesn't sound like costs dropping to me.




Not one but two.

They charged $23,000 for debi's MRI and $23,000 for my MRI after the motorcycle accident. Plus another $10,000 for all the other ER stuff.

First of all your story has nothing to do with the overall cost of healthcare.

Secondly, are those the numbers a health insurance company actually paid ? Others a big difference between what's billed and what's actually accepted, as long as a person has insurance.
 

FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
29,584
2,256
126
First of all your story has nothing to do with the overall cost of healthcare.

Secondly, are those the numbers a health insurance company actually paid ? Others a big difference between what's billed and what's actually accepted, as long as a person has insurance.

Collectively, our stories also have nothing to do with the cost of healthcare. :whiste:
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,526
15,405
136
your a left wing hack.

The fact that you were made a moderator is mind blowing.

heres another story about obamacare failing

http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...9d56ac-779c-11e2-8f84-3e4b513b1a13_print.html

Washington post might be too much of a hack newspaper for you. Since the only news you accept is that which agrees with your pov.


That story is about a temporary program, did you read the article?

Interesting. So now not only do you think we should eliminate health insurance companies, but also auto insurance, life insurance, home insurance, etc.

And I assume you are also down with the nationalizing grocery stores idea since they are just evil middlemen making money off people's need for food.

Thank you for your honesty.

Every damn one of your posts is about making assumptions, when do you not assume?

You are the straw man master!
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
First of all your story has nothing to do with the overall cost of healthcare.

Secondly, are those the numbers a health insurance company actually paid ? Others a big difference between what's billed and what's actually accepted, as long as a person has insurance.

Between the two insurance companies they paid $10,000 leaving over $40,000 still outstanding being billed to me.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,669
8
0
That story is about a temporary program, did you read the article?



Every damn one of your posts is about making assumptions, when do you not assume?

You are the straw man master!

He is on record as wanting to eliminate "middle-men" to save money. So how could he oppose nationalizing grocery stores?

Unless of course his opposition to private health insurers has nothing to do with wanting to eliminate "middle-men", but instead with believing that health care is a "right" and the only way to insure that everyone gets equal health care is to have a single-payer system.
 

1prophet

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
5,313
534
126
Nice opinion piece, but I am waiting for the hard Data which will most certainly come out after the ACA is FULLY implemented AFTER 2014.


Isn't that like believing a fire exists only after the house burned down.:awe:

This country had the best model for healthcare in the city of Rochester, New York where big and small businesses were allowed to pool healthcare costs together and able to negotiate better rates, and business leaders, medical/insurance leaders and government would work together to contain costs while maximizing the quality and affordability of healthcare for all.

Hillary Clinton even mentioned it when she pushed for her healthcare plan in the 90's as the Rochester miracle.
 

bdunosk

Senior member
Sep 26, 2000
573
2
81
Yeah... He is certainly responsible for your nephew not getting a job and your premiums going up since 1991. Thanks for playing!

Again, anecdotal, but a friend is working close to 80hrs per week because his employer does not want to hire with the upcoming Obamacare changes.


$23,000 for MRI's doesn't sound like costs dropping to me.

An MRI typically runs $2000 - 5000, including both the technical and professional fees. That's not what is paid, but what is generally quoted as the "cost." It's a shame that they're charging that much, it's grossly inflated.


All the criticism its getting now is no different than the criticism health care reform has gotten for 60 or 70 years.

...

3. its criticized by the healthcare industry for obvious reasons.

It's probably difficult to accurately assess what's happening with HC inflation with how the value of the dollar is a moving target.

Like I said, I don't think people are going to be happy with the rationing that's going to have to happen with Obamacare.
 
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