Obama changes "you can keep it" slogan, makes it seem like we misunderstood him

[trenchfoot]

Well, it looks like Obama has realized that trying to explain himself out this mess isn't going to work, so he's going to ignore it and let it fizzle on its own.

So it's up to you Repubs and Tea Partier's to keep waving this flag in the air until your arms drop off as that's about the only thing that's going to result from it. It's not hurting Obama at all, as he's reached the end of his rope politically speaking, and what with the Tea Party successfully alienating more and more voters the more they push their agenda, it doesn't look like the Repub Party is going to be winning back the White House any time soon....well, unless guys like Chris Christie get nominated that is.

Call it a lie, call it wishful thinking, call it BS, call it a lack of foresight and situational awareness, call it not thinking before speaking, call it typical political entrepenureal jargon, call it politispeak.......whatever....it's not going to change anything....at all.

But it sure feels good to unload a barrage on this guy, doesn't it?

 

[rudeguy]

Well, it looks like Obama has realized that trying to explain himself out this mess isn't going to work, so he's going to ignore it and let it fizzle on its own.

So it's up to you Repubs and Tea Partier's to keep waving this flag in the air until your arms drop off as that's about the only thing that's going to result from it. It's not hurting Obama at all, as he's reached the end of his rope politically speaking, and what with the Tea Party successfully alienating more and more voters the more they push their agenda, it doesn't look like the Repub Party is going to be winning back the White House any time soon....well, unless guys like Chris Christie get nominated that is.

Call it a lie, call it wishful thinking, call it BS, call it a lack of foresight and situational awareness, call it not thinking before speaking, call it typical political entrepenureal jargon, call it politispeak.......whatever....it's not going to change anything....at all.

But it sure feels good to unload a barrage on this guy, doesn't it?

so its ok to you that he lied?
then lied about lying?

Pointing out the truth is not barraging unless you are trying to hide from that truth.

 

[senseamp]

And the person who paid the taxes has less money to buy fewer things, cancelling out that stimulus.

Except in our situation it's a citizen of China who has the less money to buy fewer things, so what the fuck do we care about that person half-way across the world?

Exactly. It's stimulutive to US.

 

[trenchfoot]

so its ok to you that he lied?
then lied about lying?

Pointing out the truth is not barraging unless you are trying to hide from that truth.

No, it's not OK, and my apologies for not pointing that out. However, that wasn't the point I was attempting to make, was it? My post was referring to the futility of barking at the moon, as it were, when our politicians lay political landmines, forget where they laid them and then step on them with the end result of having their feet being blown off and ending up in their mouths. Some result in real political damage, but this particular one that Obama laid and stepped on just ain't one of them.

Re: barraging, within the context that I intended, and of which you unintentionally attempted to take me out of to reinforce the intent of your post, is to me, apropos for the occasion.

For clarification's sake, I can say that I never intended to refute the point your original post was making, I was just commenting on what I consider to be the reality of the situation at hand.

 

[D-Man]

Actually the new ACA has forced the cancellation of more policies then the number of people that signed up for the new plan.

Remember when Nancy Pelosi said:
“We have to pass it to find out what’s in it”?

A physician called in to a radio show and said,
"That's the definition of a stool sample."

 

[BoberFett]

Apparently Democrats such as senseamp and ashole are too stupid to understand that the ACA doesn't address health care at all, which is why it's a massive failure. It deals with health insurance, who has to buy, what it covers, etc. But the real failure is the cost of healthcare, and Obama and the rest of the idiots in Washington have done NOTHING to change that. Healthcare costs continue to spiral upwards, and health insurance rates will continue to go up with them.

 

[hal2kilo]

Wil not defend.

Obama either lied or incompetent people around him said he could make that staement.

It's that simple.

 

[bshole]

Apparently Democrats such as senseamp and ashole are too stupid to understand that the ACA doesn't address health care at all, which is why it's a massive failure. It deals with health insurance, who has to buy, what it covers, etc. But the real failure is the cost of healthcare, and Obama and the rest of the idiots in Washington have done NOTHING to change that. Healthcare costs continue to spiral upwards, and health insurance rates will continue to go up with them.

Dude, it hasn't even started in earnest and you are declaring it a failure already. Chill out.

I firmly believe this all headed to a triage type of situation. Percerentage chance of survival, age of patient and cost of procedure will all be factors.... the days of heroic expensive efforts to prolong the life of a doomed patient by a few months may be coming to an end.

Socialized medicine with a single payer and NO insurance companies would certainly streamline the system. Obama has taken the first step in that direction. Hopefully the next president adopts the Canadian system in it's entirety. We are so stuck in a 20th century mode. We need to evolve.

 

[BoberFett]

Dude, it hasn't even started in earnest and you are declaring it a failure already. Chill out.

I firmly believe this all headed to a triage type of situation. Percerentage chance of survival, age of patient and cost of procedure will all be factors.... the days of heroic expensive efforts to prolong the life of a doomed patient by a few months may be coming to an end.

Socialized medicine with a single payer and NO insurance companies would certainly streamline the system. Obama has taken the first step in that direction. Hopefully the next president adopts the Canadian system in it's entirety. We are so stuck in a 20th century mode. We need to evolve.

Pull your tongue out of Obama's rectum for a moment and explain how the ACA addresses health care costs.

 

[Jaskalas]

Pull your tongue out of Obama's rectum for a moment and explain how the ACA addresses health care costs.

It forces you off your current plan and onto a more expensive plan. Can't afford it? Too bad!

 

[bshole]

Pull your tongue out of Obama's rectum for a moment and explain how the ACA addresses health care costs.

By starting down the path of forcing the young and healthy to subsidize health care. Previously they weren't putting much into the pot. This is a good start towards milking that untapped demographic.

Additionally it is taking the first tentative step squeezing the insurance companies out of the market. One we can get rid of them, cost savings will really start to kick in. Government triage of health care recipients is the ideal solution that we all are working towards.

Think of Obamacare as not the destination but tentative first step towards America's destination.

Does that help Bober?

 

[senseamp]

Apparently Democrats such as senseamp and ashole are too stupid to understand that the ACA doesn't address health care at all, which is why it's a massive failure. It deals with health insurance, who has to buy, what it covers, etc. But the real failure is the cost of healthcare, and Obama and the rest of the idiots in Washington have done NOTHING to change that. Healthcare costs continue to spiral upwards, and health insurance rates will continue to go up with them.

Did you want Obama to implement direct price controls?

 

[spacejamz]

By starting down the path of forcing the young and healthy to subsidize health care.

Forcing? LOL

They have to pay a 'fine' which is significantly less then the annual premium amount, especially for the first few years...And the fine can only be collected if they owe a federal refund.

The young don't pay for insurance now, why would they pay the higher annual premium amount instead of the lower fine?

I think someone has already asked but I don't remember seeing any responses to it...Exactly what is the penalty for not paying the fine if you owe it?

 

[brycejones]

Did you want Obama to implement direct price controls?

No, didn't you know we can fix all this just by limiting medical malpractice lawsuits?

In all seriousness I think the Democrats missed an opportunity on the lawsuit front. They should have included it in the bill as a sop to GOP and then when it did nothing to drive down costs they could have hammered the GOP with it. If it did drive down costs they would get credit for including it in the first place.

Bober really wants single payer with medical review boards determining if a visit to the doctor is warranted....(I jest)

 

[werepossum]

By starting down the path of forcing the young and healthy to subsidize health care. Previously they weren't putting much into the pot. This is a good start towards milking that untapped demographic.

Additionally it is taking the first tentative step squeezing the insurance companies out of the market. One we can get rid of them, cost savings will really start to kick in. Government triage of health care recipients is the ideal solution that we all are working towards.

Think of Obamacare as not the destination but tentative first step towards America's destination.

Does that help Bober?

Government triage of health care recipients is the ideal solution that we all are working towards? Seriously?

Government deciding who shall live and who shall die is most certainly not the ideal situation I'm working toward. At that point, practically speaking most of us have returned to feudalism's serf status, if not slave status.

 

[brycejones]

Government triage of health care recipients is the ideal solution that we all are working towards? Seriously?

Government deciding who shall live and who shall die is most certainly not the ideal situation I'm working toward. At that point, practically speaking most of us have returned to feudalism's serf status, if not slave status.

Are we playing the jump to conclusions game?

 

[werepossum]

Forcing? LOL

They have to pay a 'fine' which is significantly less then the annual premium amount, especially for the first few years...And the fine can only be collected if they owe a federal refund.

The young don't pay for insurance now, why would they pay the higher annual premium amount instead of the lower fine?

I think someone has already asked but I don't remember seeing any responses to it...Exactly what is the penalty for not paying the fine if you owe it?

I very much doubt there are many young people today who earn enough to not qualify for a subsidy and yet do not have health insurance. Given that, the concept becomes trying to make health care affordable by forcing young people without health insurance to allow us all to buy them health insurance at an artificially inflated price.

Anyone who believes this concept is anything more than nonsensical deserves to be pitied, not mocked.

 

[nehalem256]

Government triage of health care recipients is the ideal solution that we all are working towards? Seriously?

Government deciding who shall live and who shall die is most certainly not the ideal situation I'm working toward. At that point, practically speaking most of us have returned to feudalism's serf status, if not slave status.

Isn't that basically what most liberalism is about?

Making hard working individuals who make good choices be slaves to do those who repeatedly make horrible immoral choices?

See pretty much any food stamp thread as evidence.

 

[senseamp]

I very much doubt there are many young people today who earn enough to not qualify for a subsidy and yet do not have health insurance. Given that, the concept becomes trying to make health care affordable by forcing young people without health insurance to allow us all to buy them health insurance at an artificially inflated price.

Anyone who believes this concept is anything more than nonsensical deserves to be pitied, not mocked.

This is a concept that works in pretty much all civilized countries that cover all their citizens and spend half of what we spend on health care. What's nonsensical and deserves pity is that it took us so long to get to this point.

 

[werepossum]

Are we playing the jump to conclusions game?

Evidently YOU are playing the "I don't know what triage means" game. Advanced triage (i.e. not medical evacuation but medical treatment) commonly divides people into five categories - black, red, yellow, green, and white. Black tags are going to die regardless of treatment - shoot them up with morphine to ease suffering and move on. Red tags are patients who will die or suffer serious lifelong difficulties (i.e. a limb not re-attached) if not treated immediately; red tags are treated first. Yellow tags indicate serious injuries which require priority care under normal circumstances, but whose condition allows them to wait for treatment (with palliative care and trained observation) until the red tags have been treated. Green tags indicate injuries which require care, but who can safely be left for hours or even days until all the red and yellow tags have been treated. White tags indicate injuries which do not require care, cuts and scrapes and bruises which can be treated but which will likely cause no serious complications if not treated by medical professionals. White tags will eventually be treated, but only after all the red and yellow tags have been treated.

It may surprise you to learn that emergency rooms routinely do this evaluation even without the benefit of the all-knowing bureaucrat. Thus the only way to save any money is to introduce cost into the equation, so that people who would otherwise live are allowed to die to save the system money, people who could have a limb re-attached are allowed to be amputees to save the system money, people who could have quality of life restored are allowed to rot fogged by painkillers to save the system money.

It truly amazes me that people who routinely accuse insurance companies of doing this are actually advocating for Government to do this.

 

[bshole]

It truly amazes me that people who routinely accuse insurance companies of doing this are actually advocating for Government to do this.

Um...... somebody has to do it. Who do you propose? It is readily apparent that it is a physical impossibility to provide unlimited treatment to everybody. Who do YOU think should make the decision?

 

[brycejones]

Evidently YOU are playing the "I don't know what triage means" game. Advanced triage (i.e. not medical evacuation but medical treatment) commonly divides people into five categories - black, red, yellow, green, and white. Black tags are going to die regardless of treatment - shoot them up with morphine to ease suffering and move on. Red tags are patients who will die or suffer serious lifelong difficulties (i.e. a limb not re-attached) if not treated immediately; red tags are treated first. Yellow tags indicate serious injuries which require priority care under normal circumstances, but whose condition allows them to wait for treatment (with palliative care and trained observation) until the red tags have been treated. Green tags indicate injuries which require care, but who can safely be left for hours or even days until all the red and yellow tags have been treated. White tags indicate injuries which do not require care, cuts and scrapes and bruises which can be treated but which will likely cause no serious complications if not treated by medical professionals. White tags will eventually be treated, but only after all the red and yellow tags have been treated.

It may surprise you to learn that emergency rooms routinely do this evaluation even without the benefit of the all-knowing bureaucrat. Thus the only way to save any money is to introduce cost into the equation, so that people who would otherwise live are allowed to die to save the system money, people who could have a limb re-attached are allowed to be amputees to save the system money, people who could have quality of life restored are allowed to rot fogged by painkillers to save the system money.

It truly amazes me that people who routinely accuse insurance companies of doing this are actually advocating for Government to do this.

So you agree that on some level healthcare regardless of how it is paid for is rationed? duh, no shit sherlock. But you are taking it one step further and going down a thinly veiled take on the death panel BS. Triage systems like you described are typically used at times when the ability to deliver health care is overloaded. Not sure what your point is bringing it up here.

Rage on brother, rage on......

 

[werepossum]

Um...... somebody has to do it. Who do you propose? It is readily apparent that it is a physical impossibility to provide unlimited treatment to everybody. Who do YOU think should make the decision?

So you agree that on some level healthcare regardless of how it is paid for is rationed? duh, no shit sherlock. But you are taking it one step further and going down a thinly veiled take on the death panel BS. Triage systems like you described are typically used at times when the ability to deliver health care is overloaded. Not sure what your point is bringing it up here.

Rage on brother, rage on......

Everything which costs time or treasure to provide is inherently rationed. However, you guys are embracing cost-based triage, something that presently the government oversees the health insurance companies to make sure they don't do. Right now most policies have only a lifetime limit, typically in the low millions,and a prohibition on funding unproven treatments. With government-based cost triage, one could pay into the system one's whole life and still be denied care when one truly needs it because it is more cost efficient for government to provide care to someone else. And if government decides one should die, there is no higher authority to which one can appeal.

 

[Matt1970]

Well, it looks like Obama has realized that trying to explain himself out this mess isn't going to work, so he's going to ignore it and let it fizzle on its own.

So it's up to you Repubs and Tea Partier's to keep waving this flag in the air until your arms drop off as that's about the only thing that's going to result from it. It's not hurting Obama at all, as he's reached the end of his rope politically speaking, and what with the Tea Party successfully alienating more and more voters the more they push their agenda, it doesn't look like the Repub Party is going to be winning back the White House any time soon....well, unless guys like Chris Christie get nominated that is.

Call it a lie, call it wishful thinking, call it BS, call it a lack of foresight and situational awareness, call it not thinking before speaking, call it typical political entrepenureal jargon, call it politispeak.......whatever....it's not going to change anything....at all.

But it sure feels good to unload a barrage on this guy, doesn't it?

In 2008 people decided to blame all Republicans for what Bush was doing. Why do you think 2016 will be different?

 

[senseamp]

In 2008 people decided to blame all Republicans for what Bush was doing. Why do you think 2016 will be different?

It won't, we'll blame Republicans again