Quite frankly, the government has made a very poor case for.itself as to why we should trust them with our (or my) healthcare anymore than a reputed insurance company.By starting down the path of forcing the young and healthy to subsidize health care. Previously they weren't putting much into the pot. This is a good start towards milking that untapped demographic.
Additionally it is taking the first tentative step squeezing the insurance companies out of the market. One we can get rid of them, cost savings will really start to kick in. Government triage of health care recipients is the ideal solution that we all are working towards.
Think of Obamacare as not the destination but tentative first step towards America's destination.
Does that help Bober?
That was an inevitability with skyrocketing health care costs and an aging population of boomers starting to retire with significantly longer life expectancy than when they started working. The health care system in this country was already hopelessly beyond repair. Obamacare doesn't help with that at all. But if it convinces the country to abandon private insurers paid for by employers with a single payer government system? That's a step in the right direction. The old system was bad, the current system is bad, let's try something new.
I can not believe people are complaining about this?
Clinton lied about free trade, obama lied about health care.
When are the people going to get tired of being lied to?
Ah yes, the only two instances in history when a president has lied to the people.
A true patriot, you are.
I think there is a good chance--though one cannot tell for a couple of years--that this lie of Obama's turns out to be Obama's "Mission Accomplished" statement of idiocy. It is certainly the biggest lie he has told so far.Don't get distracted.
This is about all politicians lying to us and there being no repercussions. That has to change. Whether its removal from office, public shaming, losing their speaking privileges. ...something has to happen to them.
This one is big because its blatant.
I think there is a good chance--though one cannot tell for a couple of years--that this lie of Obama's turns out to be Obama's "Mission Accomplished" statement of idiocy. It is certainly the biggest lie he has told so far.
I think there is a good chance--though one cannot tell for a couple of years--that this lie of Obama's turns out to be Obama's "Mission Accomplished" statement of idiocy. It is certainly the biggest lie he has told so far.
Ah yes, the only two instances in history when a president has lied to the people.
A true patriot, you are.
I tend to think Clinton didn't really understand the ramifications of his free trade policy. So, I don't believe it's a sure bet he lied. (Now he lied outright and knowingly about sex with Monica Lewinsky.)
I tend to think GWB actually believed he wouldn't raise taxes when he said "read my lips". So, I don't think it was lie, but rather a promise he couldn't or wouldn't keep.
I also don't think that GHWB knew there weren't any WMD in Iraq. (If he knew there weren't I suspect they'd have planted them.) I.e., a mistaken belief based on (the as usual) shaky intel.
I firmly believe Obama lied. He has too many policy types in his admin to not have known otherwise. There are indications the 'political' types overruled the policy types and insisted he make those claims to have any chance that Obamacare would pass. They didn't have a single vote to spare in the Senate. If what is known now was known back then I think too many people would have raised holy hell and some of the wavering Senators would've broken rank. I.e., Obamacare would not have passed.
Fern
Don't get distracted.
This is about all politicians lying to us and there being no repercussions. That has to change. Whether its removal from office, public shaming, losing their speaking privileges. ...something has to happen to them.
This one is big because its blatant.
he already has
And then he blames someone else a couple days later.
Partisan stuff aside, why do we put up with this? As was stated above, all politicians do this. Its expected of them. Why isn't it a crime to lie to the American people? If I lie to a cop, that's a crime. If I lie to a judge, that's a crime. Why aren't these people held to even higher standards than we are?
Screw all the politicians. Fire these assholes.
I have no sympathy for a man who's incompetence and/or dishonesty has resulted directly in the loss of tens of thousands of lives. None at all. I hope what he did haunts him until the day he dies, he deserves nothing less for it. He doesn't feel guilty enough, though. If he did he'd come out and say he fucked up supremely and perhaps there would be less chance of it happening in the future.Bush has been pretty open about having made mistakes since leaving office, he explained how he feels about it a bit when he opened his library.
I'm kind of sorry for him now, I feel I didn't judge him fairly while he was in office.
I have no sympathy for a man who's incompetence and/or dishonesty has resulted directly in the loss of tens of thousands of lives. None at all. I hope what he did haunts him until the day he dies, he deserves nothing less for it. He doesn't feel guilty enough, though. If he did he'd come out and say he fucked up supremely and perhaps there would be less chance of it happening in the future.
you do realize that thats not all on him. Congress voted for it
By starting down the path of forcing the young and healthy to subsidize health care. Previously they weren't putting much into the pot. This is a good start towards milking that untapped demographic.
Additionally it is taking the first tentative step squeezing the insurance companies out of the market. One we can get rid of them, cost savings will really start to kick in. Government triage of health care recipients is the ideal solution that we all are working towards.
Think of Obamacare as not the destination but tentative first step towards America's destination.
Does that help Bober?
I totally agree. These guys say something and are so afraid to admit they were wrong that they bury themselves in lies and cover ups.
Just admit you messed up. Its not hard.
And while we're at it, why not require that all political ads be absolutely truthful? No out-of-context quotes. No misrepresentations of the other person's position. No lies of omission.
The reason these political lies aren't illegal is a little thing called the 1st Amendment. Yes, exclusions to the 1st Amendment are made for special cases, but these exceptions must be pretty narrowly tailored to serve an important and well accepted purpose. And even if such "tell the political truth" laws could somehow get around the 1st Amendment, trying to enforce them would be impossible (is it a lie or is it ignorance or is it negligence? How far must a statement stray from the strict truth before it becomes a lie? And what if something was thought to be true yesterday, but tomorrow the facts change; if an ad that ran yesterday is run again today, is that a lie? Etc.)
Everyone knows that most people are amazingly stupid and ignorant. That being the case, we get the kind of society that such ignorance and stupidity deserve.
I agree about Clinton. The Pubbies are even worse about unfettered free trade. If they weren't true believers, surely one side or the other would have taken that opportunity to slam the opposition. I disagree about GHWB - I think he was saying whatever he had to say to get elected. GWB - maybe, but remember we did find the WMDs we knew they had. The WMDs we THOUGHT they had were probably a combination of what we wanted to hear aligning with what Iraqi expats wanted to say so that we would remove Saddam and they could go home without being fed feet-first into an industrial shredder. Even France believed that Iraq was still producing WMDs, but France wasn't invading. Given that Bush was invading, and given that the point we made to the Muslim world leaders (which did need to be made) would be made just as well with Afghanistan, does Bush really deserve a free pass for seeing what he wanted to see?I tend to think Clinton didn't really understand the ramifications of his free trade policy. So, I don't believe it's a sure bet he lied. (Now he lied outright and knowingly about sex with Monica Lewinsky.)
I tend to think GWB actually believed he wouldn't raise taxes when he said "read my lips". So, I don't think it was lie, but rather a promise he couldn't or wouldn't keep.
I also don't think that GHWB knew there weren't any WMD in Iraq. (If he knew there weren't I suspect they'd have planted them.) I.e., a mistaken belief based on (the as usual) shaky intel.
I firmly believe Obama lied. He has too many policy types in his admin to not have known otherwise. There are indications the 'political' types overruled the policy types and insisted he make those claims to have any chance that Obamacare would pass. They didn't have a single vote to spare in the Senate. If what is known now was known back then I think too many people would have raised holy hell and some of the wavering Senators would've broken rank. I.e., Obamacare would not have passed.
Fern
Still playing gotcha politics are we? So the President said no one would lose their old plans is they "liked" (aka cheap) them and clearly that is not the case. Big f'in deal.
I remember when Bush 1 got all that flack for the "no new taxes" bs. Heaven forbid someone be wrong or change their minds. What was he supposed to do, not change his mind about anything? Thanks for not being an intelligent being sir!
By the way, anyone else like how the private health care companies haven't gotten any flack for this?
They are after all the ones raising the rates and cancelling the policies.
I have yet to se any good data explaining any of this.
@werepossum
I love when people try and defend Bush Jr. The mental gymnastics required are pretty special.
In a couple years, people will get new plans and move on with their lives.
I don't know how you expect them to pay for the new plans.