Obama goes from most Pro-israel President to most anti-Israel President

Page 8 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Karl Agathon

Golden Member
Sep 30, 2010
1,081
0
0
We all know that the Zionist state of Israel will not survive in the Midle East, but then... where would they go?.........the US? Oi Vey I sure as hell hope not.....even having one of them here is one to many.

Troll account
 

gingermeggs

Golden Member
Dec 22, 2008
1,157
0
71
QFT! Returning to the 1967 borders, with land exchanges for practical implimentation and enforcement, with mutual pledges of respect for the other's right to exist, was the policy of George Bush, Sr. and Bill Clinton's administrations, as well.

It's time for Israel to return to being the grownup in the room.

The time is over.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Its sad you keep coming here defending the actions terrorists.

The "religion of peace" attacked Israel. Israel defended itself. Now the "religion of peace" wants a do over - all while it continues to launch rockets at civilians.

Tough luck.

Maybe the Palestinians will stop opting to be lead by a terrorist organization but until then, the terrorist will continue to terrorize and Israel will continue to defend itself.

Incorrect. In 1967, Israel engaged in what's represented as a "pre-emptive" attack against Egypt and Syria during rising tensions. They were the actual aggressors.

Don't let facts interfere with the dissemination of propaganda, however.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Yeah eventually. Not in your lifetime tho. Frankly most scholars agree there is somewhat of a regression since the 20th century.
Graphically.
Cairo College Graduation 1959


1978


Today


Heh. What you illustrate is the effect of waning Soviet influence in Egypt. The same can be seen in Pics of Afghan life across time.

Marxist ideology embraces gender equality, not to mention anti-religion in all its forms...
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
It's not all bad then like I was told. But really what you say is not true because same Islamic redivivus is happening in Iraq, Algeria, Tunisia and across middle east born by failures of westernism to provide them a better life, punitive workings of fundis, and Islamic scholars reverting.
 
Last edited:

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,982
3,318
126
In 1967, Israel engaged in what's represented as a "pre-emptive" attack against Egypt and Syria during rising tensions. They were the actual aggressors.

Don't let facts interfere with the dissemination of propaganda, however.

Don`t let your Palestinian bias blind to the fact that it is called survival!!

http://www.middleeastfacts.com/Articles/israel-the-aggressor.php

Just look at the Middle East's numbers: Six million Jews and 284 million Arabs

Toronto Sunday Sun, April 7, 2002

By: Lorrie Goldstein, Editor

Sometimes, when folks get all hysterical about great imperialistic power, Israel, one wishes they would look at a map or do some addition or read a little history.

Recently, the 22-member Arab League offered Israel a laughable peace deal which can basically be summed up as this: give us back all the land you won from us in the four major wars in which we tried and failed to drive you into the sea and we'll recognize your right to exist.

That this should be hailed as a breakthrough is simply absurd given that five of the League's members - Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq and Jordan - have been participants in at least one and, in some cases, all fourwars against Israel, the first starting the day after it became a nation on May 14, 1948.

The so-called "Occupied Territories" resulted from the third of the four conflicts, the six Day War of 1967, in which Egyptian president Gamal Abdel Nasser demanded - and got - the UN to remove peacekeepers from the Gaza Strip and Sinai Peninsula, moved Egyptian forces into the Sinai, closed the Strait of Tiran to Israeli ships and blocked the port city of Eilat, all the while publicly vowing to attack Israel.

At that point Israel, employing the ancient Hebrew maxim cited by Jay Bushinsky in the Sun last week - "When someone comes to kill you, rise up early and kill him first" - launched a surprise air strike on Egypt on June 5, 1967, whereupon Syria, Iraq and Jordan, which had all signed defence agreements with Egypt, joined it in attacking Israel.

Jordan, which at that time had laid claim to the West Bank, ignored a warning from Israel to desist after it began shelling Jerusalem and sending its troops across the armistice line, at which point Israel entered the West Bank.

'Occupied territory'

Within a week, Israel had captured the Golan Heights from Syria, Sinai and the Gaza from Egypt and all of Jerusalem and the West Bank from Jordan. This, of course, makes the definition of the West Bank, to use the most famous example, as "Occupied Territory" one of the most bizarre the world has ever seen. Land taken from an invader in a defensive military action after the invader was warned not to invade is now described, through the use of repetition and propaganda, as we would land seized by a foreign invader in a war of aggression.

Anyway, back to the Arab League and a few numbers to consider about that allegedly evil, imperialist and expansionist power, Israel. The 22 countries of the Arab League have a combined population of 284 million, mostly Muslim, covering 5.2 million square miles of land. This excludes Iran, with 65 million people and 636,000 square miles of land, since it is not an Arab state, although it certainly hates Israel.

And big, bad, aggressor Israel? It has a total population of six million, 80% Jewish, and 8,130 square miles of land - 260 miles at its longest point, 70 at its widest. The figure does not include the Occupied Territories, consisting of 2,700 square miles, including the Gaza and the West Bank, with about three million people, mostly Palestinian but with a minority of Jewish settlers. Israel withdrew from the Sinai in 1982, from most of Gaza in 1994 and from parts of the West Bank starting in 1994 - although the latter two have been reoccupied due to the latest round of terrorist suicide bombings.

So tiny Israel, with less than 1/639th of the land of the Arab countries and less then 1/47th of their population, today stands accused by its enemies and critics as being the Mideast's worst, imperialistic, occupying power. Right. And we won't even dwell here on the long, long history of internecine conflicts and territorial wars within the Arab World.

Looked at another way, there are 15 million Jews in the world compared to 1.2 billion Muslims and 1.5 billion Christians, or one Jew for every 80 Muslims and 126 Christians.

Makes you wonder why anti-Semites spend so much of their time obsessing over Israel and claiming the Jews are taking over the world, since we clearly haven't been doing a very good job of it, what with the Holocaust and all, now have we?

Finally, since Israel is forever being compared by its more hysterical critics to the Nazis, Hitler, etc., let's look at the relative degree of freedom in Israel compared to its Arab neighbours as documented by the respected monitoring agency, Freedom House. Under its long-established ranking system, the lower the number, the more "free" a society is.

In the 1999/2000 rankings, Israel scored a 1.2, comparable to other free nations such as the U.S. and Canada at 1.1. In the Arab League, the best country, Jordan, at 4.4, is only "partly free" while the majority are far worse and "not free."

While Israel has been accused of gross human rights abuses and media censorship in the Occupied Territories (as has the Palestinian Authority) a bad day in the Occupied Territories is pretty much a typical day in such Arab dictatorships as Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Syria, Sudan, etc. You don't hear about them much because, unlike Israel, independent media are not welcome. That's another thing "awful" Israel does that "enlightened" Arab dictatorships don't. While it has military censors, it allows a free press and both domestic and foreign media to report on it critically.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
5
0
What is this Israeli shit, Hamas does not recognize Israel and in return Israel does not recognize Hamas either.

In the grand scheme of things a pissing contest dead even, Hamas is a reality and so so is Israel.

Why should Israeli denial take precedent over Hamas denial?

Especially given the fact, that is we get to a Palestinian State, Hamas and Fatah as a joint unity government will have to recognize the Israeli right to exist and in turn Israel will have to recognize the rights of the joint Palestinian government to exist.

What is forcing Hamas/Fatah to recognize Israel's right to exist.
Because of a statement from Fatah.

When Hamas itself acknowledges Israel's right; then there can be progress.
And in doing so; stops all attacks from the Gaza area against Israel. At that point; what Hamas states may be believable
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
5
0
Incorrect. In 1967, Israel engaged in what's represented as a "pre-emptive" attack against Egypt and Syria during rising tensions. They were the actual aggressors.

Don't let facts interfere with the dissemination of propaganda, however.
Other interesting facts.

Egypt airlifted commandos into Jordan and were starting an attack against Israel.

Israel may have beaten the timeline of Arab attacks by hours by starting a strike against Egypt.
The Arabs had already committed to attacks from multiple directions.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Usual Raving Wall O' Propaganda text

You didn't actually deny what I offered, did you?

It was Israel who actually started shooting in 1967, and in 1956 before that.

Is revisionist history really necessary? Do you need lies to justify your position?

"May have" CC? I figure if the Arabs were ready to attack, the Israelis wouldn't have caught them flat-footed... when they attacked first.
 
Last edited:

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
I gotta love the JediY remark that its, "Don`t let your Palestinian bias blind to the fact that it is called survival!!"

Funny it does not differ in any way with the Nazi Germany claim that it had a inherent right to living space. Nor does the current Israeli demands differ in any way from the the even earlier demands from Fascists in Italy or Japan as they raped the human rights of weaker governments.

Well we can now say, the people of Germany, Italy, and Japan survived, but not before their people suffered a crushing world dope slap. If that is what current Israel policy is heading to, I can only say it should not be advocated by anyone.

As John Brown observed, issues that cannot be solved peacefully, may have to be settled in blood. And Israel is not the only nuclear power on Earth.
 

Nemesis 1

Lifer
Dec 30, 2006
11,366
2
0
Man this topic is full of so much BS its unreal. First off the Israel State deal was brokered in the early 1900's The Britts made a Deal with Rothchild to give Israel a nation . It just didn't happen until 47 . But the deal between the britts and rothschild was made way before WWII lol at you learned people . I personally don't care one way or the other whats done is dome . I just wish the American native endians would demand there own country . Get Russia or China suppling them weapons to retake what is rightfully theirs . How many Americans are willing to pack up and leave because its the right thing to do . The American indians had it right from the beginning the pale face speak with forked tung , Something ever white man knows in his heart to be true but lack the moral fortitude to do whats right. On the spoils of War I believe history sets the precedent for such . I see many peeps here who are genuinely prevaricate in this thread . Completely overlooking the Fact that Israel(THE STATE) was in genocide for 2,000 years . That wasn't enough tho the jewish people themselves had to be genocide,

Ya their bitter and don't trust the rest of the world . I must say they have a point.

Point Is Americans Have zero right to place judgement on any nation after the genocide of Native American tribes and nations. Every American Indian deserves much more in the way of payments for stolen lands , Pay up or Shut up. Your true ignorance and lack of morals is showing clearly.
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
35,052
30
86
QFT! Returning to the 1967 borders, with land exchanges for practical implimentation and enforcement, with mutual pledges of respect for the other's right to exist, was the policy of George Bush, Sr. and Bill Clinton's administrations, as well.

It's time for Israel to return to being the grownup in the room.

The time is over.

Sorry. You're entitled to your own opinion, but no one elected you to be time keeper.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
Man this topic is full of so much BS its unreal. First off the Israel State deal was brokered in the early 1900's The Britts made a Deal with Rothchild to give Israel a nation . It just didn't happen until 47 . But the deal between the britts and rothschild was made way before WWII lol at you learned people . I personally don't care one way or the other whats done is dome . I just wish the American native endians would demand there own country . Get Russia or China suppling them weapons to retake what is rightfully theirs . How many Americans are willing to pack up and leave because its the right thing to do . The American indians had it right from the beginning the pale face speak with forked tung , Something ever white man knows in his heart to be true but lack the moral fortitude to do whats right. On the spoils of War I believe history sets the precedent for such . I see many peeps here who are genuinely prevaricate in this thread . Completely overlooking the Fact that Israel(THE STATE) was in genocide for 2,000 years . That wasn't enough tho the jewish people themselves had to be genocide,

Ya their bitter and don't trust the rest of the world . I must say they have a point.

Point Is Americans Have zero right to place judgement on any nation after the genocide of Native American tribes and nations. Every American Indian deserves much more in the way of payments for stolen lands , Pay up or Shut up. Your true ignorance and lack of morals is showing clearly.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As much as I would like to buy the Nemisist position, its in no way comparable to the Israeli Palestinian positions of today.

We can in much sympathy to the American Indian take the position we in the USA robbed them from Columbus onward. But the real killer of the the American Indian was their lack of immunity to white man diseases and an inability to adopt to changing technologies. But the "American Indian fate" was basically evaded by most other nations of the Western hemisphere, as instead of extermination, European settlers choose to intermarry with their American Indians instead. And instead we now have have multinational cultures in most nations of this hemisphere. Which is not to say countless US Americans do not have American Indians in their gene pool.

What differs in Israel today, lies in three basic things. (1) By the UN charter land by conquest is no longer legitimate. (2) The original Palestinian inhabitants of Israel are denied all human rights with no hope of assimilation based on heritability guilt. (3) Israel cannot claim to be a democracy when it denies 30% of its population all human rights.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,982
3,318
126
You didn't actually deny what I offered, did you? -- I did NOT need to deny anything you said! We all know that the Arabs had already started preparing too attack Israel......
Israel was justified and all the fact prove they were justified in launching a pre-emptive or defensive attack!


It was Israel who actually started shooting in 1967, and in 1956 before that. --No it was the actions of the arabs that forced Israel to react swifly!
As part of Egyptian President Nasser's nationalist agenda, he took control of the Suez Canal zone away from the British and French companies which owned it. At the same time, as part of his ongoing struggle with Israel, Egyptian forces blocked the Straits of Tiran, the narrow waterway that is Israel's only outlet to the Red Sea. Israel and Egypt had clashed repeatedly since their 1948 war as Egypt allowed and encouraged groups of Palestinian fighters to attack Israel from Egyptian territory. In response, Israeli forces constantly made cross-border raids in retaliation. Britain and France, both of whom were in the process of losing their centuries-old empires, decided on a strategy straight out of their 19th Century Imperial histories. This plan led to a joint invasion and occupation of the Suez Canal zone by Britain and France. This was meant to reassert control of this vital waterway to the British and French companies stung by Nasser's bold nationalization. At France's suggestion, planning was coordinated with Israel, a fact which all three nations denied for years afterwards.

On October 29, 1956, Israeli troops invaded Egypt's Sinai Peninsula and quickly overcame opposition as they raced for Suez. The next day, Britain and France, following their part of the script, offered to temporarily occupy the Canal Zone and suggested a 10 mile buffer on either side which would separate the Egyptian forces from the Israelis. Nasser of course refused, and on October 31, Egypt was attacked and invaded by the military forces of Britain and France. In response to these developments, the Soviet Union, which at the time was ruthlessly suppressing an anti-Communist uprising in Hungary, threatened to intervene on Egypt's behalf. President Eisenhower of the United States pressured Britain, France and Israel into agreeing to a cease-fire and eventual withdrawal from Egypt. The United States, caught by surprise by the dual invasions, was more concerned with the Soviet war in Hungary and the Cold War than with Britain and France's dealings involving Suez. The last thing President Eisenhower wanted was a wider war over Suez. The war itself lasted for only a week, and invading forces were withdrawn within the month. As a result, Egypt now firmly aligned herself with the Soviet Union, which armed Egypt and other Arab nations for the continuing struggle against Israel.


Is revisionist history really necessary? Do you need lies to justify your position?
Revisionist hardly but to try to explain away what actually happenned in 1956 and 67 with one sentence is absurd and stoopid and dumb and idiotic!!

"May have" CC? I figure if the Arabs were ready to attack, the Israelis wouldn't have caught them flat-footed... when they attacked first.-- again you are now telling falsehoods and using warped logic to defend your indefensible position. The Arabs were totally ready to attack but they thought Israel had no clue what was happenning did not count on Israel. The assinine thing about your comments is that the real facts show that the Arabs were ready to attack.

shalom
 

Anarchist420

Diamond Member
Feb 13, 2010
8,645
0
76
www.facebook.com
Another thing I don't understand is the fact that totally individualizing borders and simply having a free market in defense is not something that's done. I don't know why so many middle easterners worship the state so much, when they could live in a region of peace and anarchy instead.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
JEDIYoda makes many claims he can't back up. If you call him out too many time he will cry to the mods.

That's his prerogative. I've been entirely civil in this discussion, so if he chooses to further discredit himself, he's free to do so.

I rarely participate in discussions wrt Israel and Palestine, simply because the level of rationality is quite low and the emotional manipulation from Pro-Israeli mouthpieces entirely too successful for meaningful discourse to occur.

If the Israelis weren't Jewish, Americans would look at the whole thing from an entirely different and more rational perspective. We suffer from an irrational self imposed guilt trip wrt the Holocaust, and that clouds our thinking entirely. We didn't do it, but we've taken the sins of the world on our shoulders as if they were our own.
 

Nemesis 1

Lifer
Dec 30, 2006
11,366
2
0
Last edited:

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
LOL at Jhhnn. IS he now . Beings all your fates are sealed it matters not any longer . But for you non-believers heres some ammo and shits and giggles for your pleasure . Unless you watch part 2 the joke will be wasted on you . Laughing aloud is a good thing depending on what you laugh at. I to am laughing but not with you but at you .

Enjoy the comedy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPtBQlToqV4&feature=related

Seek help. I really mean that. If your family has not expressed deep concerns wrt your grip on reality, I'd be horribly surprised.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,982
3,318
126
So you confirmed that Israel attacked first in 1956 and 1967. Was that really so hard?
As I said...there were many factors and one word sums them all up and it is called survival.

You honestly believe that Israel should have sat back and allowed let the Arab world attack with everything they had and then israel decide it was time to defend themselves?? Your not fooling anybody with yoor one sentence explanation of wqhat happenned.

If you understand what really happenned like you say you do, then you actually understand that Israel was correct in using a pre-emptive strike first....
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,982
3,318
126
JEDIYoda makes many claims he can't back up. If you call him out too many time he will cry to the mods.

Thats the best you can do??? I have backed up my entire stance using links.....
As far as that goes why don`t you ask Lemon Law and others to back up their dribble with links......ahh I get it your another one of those people who belive the Palestinians should get everything!! hmmm
 
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |