Completely lame cop-out, but whatever helps you sleep at night.
Do you give your kids fireworks and a lighter, then act all surprised when they light them off too?
Originally posted by: umbrella39
This joint resolution authorized the use of force AS AN OPTION, it was not a vote to invade Iraq no many how hard you try to spin it. Hope that piss isn't too warm for ya. I am not at all surprised by your willful inability to admit the truth. :thumbsdown: You would think the title of the resolution would give you a clue..
Congress authorized the President ?to use the Armed Forces of the United States as he determines to be necessary?.
Voting to invade Iraq and voting to give the President the authorization to use force as he sees fit are two totally different things. Congress (imo irresponsibly) delgated its constitutional responsibility to go to war to Bush.
This was all based on phony info that the administration promoted, including the discredited notion that Iraq was behind September 11, and that Iraq had nuclear bombs poised and ready to kill us all. The decision to use force lies soley with Bush, NOT our congress.
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: umbrella39
This joint resolution authorized the use of force AS AN OPTION, it was not a vote to invade Iraq no many how hard you try to spin it. Hope that piss isn't too warm for ya. I am not at all surprised by your willful inability to admit the truth. :thumbsdown: You would think the title of the resolution would give you a clue..
Congress authorized the President ?to use the Armed Forces of the United States as he determines to be necessary?.
Voting to invade Iraq and voting to give the President the authorization to use force as he sees fit are two totally different things. Congress (imo irresponsibly) delgated its constitutional responsibility to go to war to Bush.
This was all based on phony info that the administration promoted, including the discredited notion that Iraq was behind September 11, and that Iraq had nuclear bombs poised and ready to kill us all. The decision to use force lies soley with Bush, NOT our congress.
Completely lame cop-out, but whatever helps you sleep at night.
Do you give your kids fireworks and a lighter, then act all surprised when they light them off too?
Originally posted by: The Green Bean
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: skwicz212
I think US would need Pakistan approval before doing anything of this sort. Pakistan isnt Iraq or even Iran.
Given a real imminent threat involving the loss of lives if action is not taken, you don't need approval to act. You would likely ask for approval, you would expect to get it, but wouldn't need it.
Give me one reason I should believe the Americans? They are already responsible for a million deaths in Iraq. I would rather fight the Americans than see my country become an Iraq or Afghanistan.
You have no right to invade sovereign countries, let alone invasions based on lies. Threats of war must stop. You have as much chance of getting permission to send troops inside our country as a peacock has of giving birth to a chicken.
Until America doesn't stop it's imperialistic ways of thinking more 9/11s wont stop. An American invasion (any action will lead to it) of Pakistan is likely to get a strong response from China, Russia and even Europe.
I want to see proof of a threat from within my Country before I would even consider doing more than we already are.
Despite calls for U.S. action against al Qaeda in Pakistan, the Bush administration is counting on Pakistani forces to cripple militant operations in a series of U.S.-backed raids, officials and experts say.
But current and former U.S. officials say the most likely scenario would involve small-scale ground assaults by Pakistani forces with backing from U.S. intelligence including spy satellite imagery, and possibly U.S. air support
U.S. officials said a main prong of Bush administration policy is to dissuade locals from cooperating with al Qaeda by following up attacks on militant targets with generous offers of economic development through the Pakistani government.
President George W. Bush has asked Congress for $750 million to help bring jobs and other development to the lawless region.
Lahore, Pakistan - Why would I drive 4-1/2 hours to see a Pakistani movie?
Well, for starters, the only movie theater in Islamabad, Pakistan's capital, was torched by a Sunni mob during sectarian riots four years ago.
The film is being hailed in some segments of Pakistani society as the most important cinematic event in memory. The other draw was the venue: the DHA Cinema, a world-class movie theater, had just opened its doors for the elite of Lahore in "Defense," a posh neighborhood run by the military.
But there were other reasons for the trek. I wanted to attend the premier of "Khuda ke Liye" or "In the Name of God," a movie about the religious rift wrenching Pakistan.
I took a cab from the house where I was staying. As we pulled up to the theater, the cabbie was as excited as I was. "The last time I saw crowds like this," he bubbled, "was when 'Titanic' came to town."
ROFL! Do tell. What so-called "facts" am I ignoring in my "post after post"? (And as I suggested to palehorse74 earlier, be specific, be very sure you are reading what I actually said, and be sure that you have facts that actually address what I've said. I know you can do straw men and misdirection. I have yet to see you do intelligent analysis with coherent, responsive, and accurate arguments.)Originally posted by: Alistar7
[ ... ]
Bowfinger, nice job making post after post yet ignoring facts that don't mesh with your "beliefs". Why don't you go to the village of Biarra and tell the residents there were no terrorists in Iraq before we toppled Saddam.
That was a good line.Originally posted by: Shivetya
ss.
Shit, he makes Qualye look experienced.
Originally posted by: alchemize
I think I've asked "so are you for invading Pakistan?" about 50 times on this forum, and the lefties either said "hell no withdraw iraq bushler impeach arghchs!!!!onewun11!", or they ignored the question. Now Obama is actually saying what would need to be done, I think it will be interesting to see the radical lefts response to this war-monger Obama.
Originally posted by: eilute
It's not exactly invading Pakistan. The region in question is autonomous and does not recognize the Pakistani government as having jurisdiction over them.
Originally posted by: umbrella39
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: umbrella39
This joint resolution authorized the use of force AS AN OPTION, it was not a vote to invade Iraq no many how hard you try to spin it. Hope that piss isn't too warm for ya. I am not at all surprised by your willful inability to admit the truth. :thumbsdown: You would think the title of the resolution would give you a clue..
Congress authorized the President ?to use the Armed Forces of the United States as he determines to be necessary?.
Voting to invade Iraq and voting to give the President the authorization to use force as he sees fit are two totally different things. Congress (imo irresponsibly) delgated its constitutional responsibility to go to war to Bush.
This was all based on phony info that the administration promoted, including the discredited notion that Iraq was behind September 11, and that Iraq had nuclear bombs poised and ready to kill us all. The decision to use force lies soley with Bush, NOT our congress.
Completely lame cop-out, but whatever helps you sleep at night.
Do you give your kids fireworks and a lighter, then act all surprised when they light them off too?
The truth is now a cop out. Interesting. But I appreciate you likening giving Bush control to an accident waiting to happen. That is also the truth.
Originally posted by: Alistar7
Obama will not even win the nomination, pointless to discuss IMHO.
Bowfinger - Invading a nation where terrorists were not (i.e., had no material presence) was reckless, wrong, and counter-productive.
Not all liberals opposed the removal of Saddam, I would be one of those. Do I agree with how the administration has handled the reconstruction, absolutely not. That does not mean I will simply fail to acknowledge actual facts, as many (including yourself bowfinger) have in their vilification of this war and administration.
Ansar Al Islam was in Iraq, where/who was brought to the attention of the UN security council by Powell. I realize that doesn't fit with your perception of reality, but it is true. I am sure you were not blinded from this fact by your partisan brainwashing though, perhaps you could supply a more accurate reason.
Here is an interview with residents of the village they occupied:
http://www.michaeltotten.com/
Posted by Michael J. Totten at 09:55 PM | Comments (32)
March 09, 2006
Zarqawi Was Here
BIARA, IRAQ ? The PUK?s Minister of the Interior ordered 20 heavily armed Peshmerga soldiers to go with me to the borderland mountain village of Biara. For years the village was occupied by Ansar Al Islam, the Kurdish-Arab-Persian branch of Al Qaeda in Northern Iraq. Biara wasn?t the only village seized by the Taliban of Mesopotamia, but it was perhaps the most important. It is there that the Jordanian-born Abu Musab al-Zarqawi had his last stand in Iraqi Kurdistan before the 2003 US-led invasion forced him out.
My Peshmerga weren?t really necessary. I told my translator Alan that I was embarrassed so many military resources were being spent on my account. I probably didn?t need any.
?It?s too much,? Alan said and laughed. He, too, was clearly embarrassed. ?It?s too much. The minister is doing this to be nice. He wants you to know that he cares about you.?
I introduced myself to some of my Peshmerga guards. There were so many it wasn?t easy to speak to them all. I had a hard time looking them in the eye. Jesus, I thought. These guys must think I?m the biggest wimp in the world. Biara isn?t actually dangerous. Zarqawi hasn?t been there for years. But it wasn?t my idea to bring them along. When the minister said ?I will send guards with you? I thought he meant maybe two guys. I cringed when I saw how many picked me up at my hotel in the morning.
Alan and I left Suleimaniya in a convoy. One truck bristling with Peshmerga led the way. Another truck followed. Heads turned as we drove through the small villages. Who might that be was the look on all the faces. I wanted to bury my own face in my hands. It?s just me! I?m not that important! It turned out, though, to be fun.
I don?t know if these guys actually thought I was a wimp because they had to come with me. They probably did. If so, they did a terrific job hiding it. Most likely they didn?t care. Driving up the mountains and into Biara surely beat boring checkpoint detail or whatever else they would have been otherwise doing.
We arrived in Biara and parked near the mosque founded long ago by a Sufi mystic from Turkey. Zarqawi lived in that mosque during the Ansar Al Islam occupation. I could tell most of the Peshmerga guys had never been there. They gawked at the mosque and at the mountains like tourists.
Their disposition had drastically changed since morning. At first they were all business. We will protect you said the look on their no-nonsense faces. Now they looked like boys. Cool! Field trip!
After a few oohs and ahs and the pointing of fingers they found a kebab shop and ordered some lunch. Alan and I went over to join them.
?I don?t have enough food for everybody,? the stunned shop owner said, clearly intimidated by the sheer volume of food he would have to prepare all at once. ?Try the tea shop down the street.?
Alan and I went to the tea shop down the street and settled in.
The proprietor happily made us Iraq-style tea (dark brown, overflowing, and packed with a wallop of sugar) and delicious kebabs.
There were a few other patrons in the tea shop and they eyed me, the obvious foreigner, with a mixture of curiosity and shyness.
?Do want to talk to some of these people?? Alan said. ?I?ll be happy to translate.?
Of course I wanted to talk. That was the reason I went there in the first place.
?Hello,? I said to two slightly goofy looking gentlemen sitting across the tea shop on the other side of the stove.
They both stepped across and we firmly shook hands.
?Do you want to know about life in Biara?? the one on the left said. He spoke perfect English and I did not need Alan to translate.
?Yes,? I said. ?Did you live here when the village was occupied by Zarqawi??
?I did,? he said. ?Life wasn?t good. We had no freedom. TV was banned. Women couldn?t walk outside without an abaya. There was violence. Anyone not affiliated with them was treated badly. During prayer time everyone was required to go to the mosque. If we didn?t go we were insulted and fined 50 dollars.?
50 dollars may not be a lot of money in the United States, but was a huge amount in a remote village in Iraqi Kurdistan while all of Iraq was under international sanctions. People needed the Oil for Food program just to stay alive.
?Did anyone here actually like Ansar Al Islam?? I asked.
?There were one or two very young people,? he said. ?I am from here. We never had anything like that before. I was joking with my friends in this tea shop. We were arrested, chained, blindfolded, and beaten. Laughing was banned.?
?They were like the Taliban,? his friend said.
?Did Ansar kill anyone here?? I asked.
?One person was tortured to death,? he said.
The tea shop owner joined the conversation.
?I was accused of being a member of the PUK,? he said, referring to the left-wing Patriotic Union of Kurdistan political party. ?So they put me in prison.?
Ansar Al Islam?s occupation of Biara and surrounding villages ended in 2003 when the Peshmerga launched a ground invasion with U.S. air support. Biara, including the Zarqawi-occupied mosque, was bombed from the air.
?How did you feel when the Americans bombed your village?? I asked the shopkeeper.
?We were waiting to get rid of them,? he said. ?We were desperate. They were the worst people ever. Many people had to close their businesses and leave this place.?
Two other men came into the tea shop. One wore a military uniform, the other wore civilian clothes. They kept to themselves at first, then came over to talk.
?Did you ever meet Zarqawi?? I asked the man in civilian clothes.
?Few people saw him,? he said. ?He covered his face with a cloth. He wasn?t the boss, though. Chafee was their commander. They had three commanders, actually. We are still afraid of them.?
Apparently the threat to this part of Iraqi Kurdistan isn?t quite over. Otherwise the minister of the interior would not have even thought to send Peshmerga guards with me. But the Islamists haven?t been back since the US and the Peshmerga drove them over the border into Iran. It was hard to imagine they would dare try to come back again without getting themselves killed the instant they arrived.
?When the US attacked,? he said, ?they escaped to an Iranian village. Then Iran sent them to Kirkuk. One guy was arrested in Kirkuk and sent back to Iran. Then Iran sent him back to Kirkuk again.?
Originally posted by: 1prophet
Trying to defeat an enemy such as this by relying on weapons forged by the hand of man is no different than putting out a fire using gasoline.
1) Is it your contention that we should allow AQ and the Taliban to rebuild and fester throughout NW Pakistan until they've grown to the point where they pose a real threat to the entire world?Originally posted by: Lemon law
I do not have a link but you can get it on yahoo news---but now GWB has jumped on the Obama bandwagon and said he would try to work with Pakistan but does not rule
out acting unilaterally on actionable intelligence.
So give Obama a dopeslap----his big mouth has given another idiot an idiotic idea he is all too liable to act on.
Loose lips embolden twits leads to monkey says other monkey do.