Obama offers up cuts to SS and Medicare

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ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,504
15,387
136
Because you take the position of keeping government where it is today which is to assume that you don't want anything to change. The usual defense of this is "You can't cut or it will cause more problems than it saves."






Pharmaceutical innovation had nothing to do with that? Vaccinations? Surgical techniques? Medical devices? How about the shift of the population from highly manual labor intensive jobs to other less intensive jobs due to technology? None of those factors had a part to play in increase in life expectancy?

The reason why we should return to such a system where socialized risk and costs are gone is basically solvency of the government because of reduction of costs.

How does it reduce costs? Reduce government costs? Sure but it won't reduce the costs to the people. Why do you hate Americans? (See I can do straw men too)
 

mwilliams8705

Member
Apr 4, 2013
85
0
0
good for you. that means you are rich and can afford long term care for your elderly parents. its only 6,000 a month.


No, my grandparents were diagnosed with chronic diseases and knew their time was coming. They found peace and died with dignity.

BTW I come from a middle income family.
 

mwilliams8705

Member
Apr 4, 2013
85
0
0
How does it reduce costs? Reduce government costs? Sure but it won't reduce the costs to the people. Why do you hate Americans? (See I can do straw men too)


It reduces costs by not paying for it for the government.

It reduces costs for people because doctors and hospitals aren't subsidized by the government through guarantee of payment.

Take for example my recent trip to the doctor for an inner ear infection. I told them I was going to pay out of pocket. They offered me a reduced rate in doing so after telling them another doctor's quote across the street.
 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,410
616
126
No, my grandparents were diagnosed with chronic diseases and knew their time was coming. They found peace and died with dignity.

BTW I come from a middle income family.

ahhh so using medicare benefits is under you and undignified? ? So you have not had to directly deal with caring for your parents and being the decision maker when they can not.
 

mwilliams8705

Member
Apr 4, 2013
85
0
0
ahhh so using medicare benefits is under you and undignified? ? So you have not had to directly deal with caring for your parents and being the decision maker when they can not.


It's not "under" me, it's by principle, immoral and wrong.

I have not had to deal with that situation, but I know of people who have. Parents did it, friends did it, it is difficult.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,504
15,387
136
It reduces costs by not paying for it for the government.

It reduces costs for people because doctors and hospitals aren't subsidized by the government through guarantee of payment.

Take for example my recent trip to the doctor for an inner ear infection. I told them I was going to pay out of pocket. They offered me a reduced rate in doing so after telling them another doctor's quote across the street.

Yes anecdotal evidence is always the best kind!

So right now we have a privatized system and when you fall on hard times and can't pay you go on Medicare and you want to keep the privatized system but remove the safety net and you think that healthcare costs will magically come down because your doctor offered you a discount for your ear infection and I'm sure they will offer their services for free to the guy who couldn't pay his medical bills in the first place.

That's some solid logic if I have ever seen any! Who wouldn't want that system?!
 

mwilliams8705

Member
Apr 4, 2013
85
0
0
Yes anecdotal evidence is always the best kind!

So right now we have a privatized system and when you fall on hard times and can't pay you go on Medicare and you want to keep the privatized system but remove the safety net and you think that healthcare costs will magically come down because your doctor offered you a discount for your ear infection and I'm sure they will offer their services for free to the guy who couldn't pay his medical bills in the first place.

That's some solid logic if I have ever seen any! Who wouldn't want that system?!


There should be no safety net because abuse of that safety net has created the situation we face today. That situation is: how are we going to pay for all this stuff that more and more people are using instead of paying for it themselves?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,426
50,437
136
It reduces costs by not paying for it for the government.

It reduces costs for people because doctors and hospitals aren't subsidized by the government through guarantee of payment.

Take for example my recent trip to the doctor for an inner ear infection. I told them I was going to pay out of pocket. They offered me a reduced rate in doing so after telling them another doctor's quote across the street.

Doctors always offer a reduced bill if you pay cash, although you will still end up paying more than what insurance or the government pays. Did you really think that you wheeled and dealed him or something?

lol.
 

mwilliams8705

Member
Apr 4, 2013
85
0
0


You say wow, but it is. Why should I let other people pay for me or my family involuntarily? Why should I pay for people involuntarily? Why should doctors, nurses and staff work on people without getting compensated accordigly compared to private insurance rates?

Don't you find that immoral?
 

mwilliams8705

Member
Apr 4, 2013
85
0
0
Doctors always offer a reduced bill if you pay cash, although you will still end up paying more than what insurance or the government pays. Did you really think that you wheeled and dealed him or something?

lol.


No, but is fair considering I did pay less than what insurance would have paid him, private or government, because he doesn't accept insurance.

Yeah, he also works in the poor area of town with illegal immigrants because they pay cash and don't have insurance either. He is a great doctor and his practice is growing because doesn't have the overhead dealing with government or private insurance. Now, can he do big procedures? No. But he refers people to private/cash only insurance doctors and surgeons. It is a small and growing movement in the healthcare comminity.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,504
15,387
136
There should be no safety net because abuse of that safety net has created the situation we face today. That situation is: how are we going to pay for all this stuff that more and more people are using instead of paying for it themselves?

No, like I said your reasoning is sound as a pound!


Every man for himself, fuck those that can't fuck others! Am I right!

/s
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,504
15,387
136
No, but is fair considering I did pay less than what insurance would have paid him, private or government, because he doesn't accept insurance.

Yeah, he also works in the poor area of town with illegal immigrants because they pay cash and don't have insurance either. He is a great doctor and his practice is growing because doesn't have the overhead dealing with government or private insurance. Now, can he do big procedures? No. But he refers people to private/cash only insurance doctors and surgeons. It is a small and growing movement in the healthcare comminity.

Lol he doesn't deal with private insurers and you want to go to a privatized system where there will be nothing but private insurers?

You might want to go to another doctor, I think your current one might have missed something.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,521
28,553
136
Good for obama for offering up cuts but these cuts are not large enough. There needs to be much larger cuts to SS and Medicare/

SS currently doesn't contribute to the deficit.

The problem with Medicare is not Medicare but healthcare costs.
 

mwilliams8705

Member
Apr 4, 2013
85
0
0
Lol he doesn't deal with private insurers and you want to go to a privatized system where there will be nothing but private insurers?

You might want to go to another doctor, I think your current one might have missed something.


No. He is cash only. I went to a doctor who took insurance then went to him to see what he would do. He undercut him.

I shop around for doctors and services.
 

mwilliams8705

Member
Apr 4, 2013
85
0
0
SS currently doesn't contribute to the deficit.

The problem with Medicare is not Medicare but healthcare costs.

SS does contribute to the defecit since all the money is put into the general fund for use.

The problem with medicare is more people are getting on it AND rising costs of healthcare due to rising demands.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,504
15,387
136
No. He is cash only. I went to a doctor who took insurance then went to him to see what he would do. He undercut him.

I shop around for doctors and services.

Well shit if you can do it anyone can! I mean its not like we have 300+ million people in this country with different circumstances.

/s
 

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,816
1,126
126
Fix the problem he and Dems created through ACA? lol

Awe... the 'new guy' is funny! Did someone's daddy tell them the evil Democrats are the problem... Yet another embarrassing example of where the conservative party has gone to hide from reality...
 

mwilliams8705

Member
Apr 4, 2013
85
0
0
Well shit if you can do it anyone can! I mean its not like we have 300+ million people in this country with different circumstances.

/s


Ridicule all you want, but it was just an example. The current system is broken, I say we break away from it completely, make a return to a simple system and make people more responsible for themselves. Yours is to feed the government, who is grossly inept at handling money and is great at making inefficiencies.
 

mwilliams8705

Member
Apr 4, 2013
85
0
0
Awe... the 'new guy' is funny! Did someone's daddy tell them the evil Democrats are the problem... Yet another embarrassing example of where the conservative party has gone to hide from reality...


No, I see it as another unnessary law and restriction of freedoms and rights.

I guess people want to be more statist here, instead of taking care of themselves.
 
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