Obama speaks peace to Muslims

[Phokus]

http://andrewsullivan.theatlan...009/06/sad-indeed.html

Heh

 

[Robor]

I read a story about this on Yahoo this morning. Every person they interviewed from the ME mentioned Israel. :roll:

 

[JSt0rm]

Mr.Pepper : You should walk away from this. you are being pwned hard and non of the neocons are coming to your aid.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975

Does this mean we must have violence to evolve? No, it means that we must evolve because we are violent.

Survival of the fittest is a component of evolution, and violence is one manifestation of survival. Compassion and sympathy are constructs of the human condition that have the potential to either hinder OR forward our evolution as a species.

I am not sure you are using terms in the way I intend:

Violence:

1. swift and intense force: the violence of a storm.
2. rough or injurious physical force, action, or treatment: to die by violence.
3. an unjust or unwarranted exertion of force or power, as against rights or laws: to take over a government by violence.
4. a violent act or proceeding.
5. rough or immoderate vehemence, as of feeling or language: the violence of his hatred.
6. damage through distortion or unwarranted alteration: to do editorial violence to a text.

I am using violence as in # 3 and 5 neither of which are a part of evolution.

Further, I have no idea what you mean by "compassion and sympathy are constructs of the human condition" so I can't comment of how you see them helping or hindering.

 

[OCGuy]

So are you justifying the global jihad due to percieved slights to the cave-dwellers?

 

[Jaskalas]

OP, the president is speaking out against violence, need we nit pick?

 

[cyclohexane]

Originally posted by: Mr Pepper
SourceCNN

Does anyone find his following statement odd:

"Resistance through violence and killing is wrong, and it does not succeed. For centuries, black people in America suffered the lash of the whip as slaves and the humiliation of segregation," he said. "It was not violence that won full and equal rights. It was a peaceful and determined insistence upon the ideals at the center of America's founding."

Seriously? Are we to believe the Civil War never happened?

SourceWiki

"The American Civil War was the deadliest war in American history, causing 620,000 soldier deaths and an undetermined number of civilian casualties. Its legacy includes ending slavery in the United States, restoring the Union, and strengthening the role of the federal government. The social, political, economic and racial issues of the war decisively shaped the reconstruction era that lasted to 1877, and brought changes that helped make the country a united superpower."


It seems like alot of fluff to me. History has proven that not all differences can be solved over tea and crumpets.

Well, what the fuck do you want him to say? That violence works? "Keep doing what you've been doing"? :disgust:

 

[Mr Pepper]

Originally posted by: cyclohexane

Originally posted by: Mr Pepper
SourceCNN

Does anyone find his following statement odd:

"Resistance through violence and killing is wrong, and it does not succeed. For centuries, black people in America suffered the lash of the whip as slaves and the humiliation of segregation," he said. "It was not violence that won full and equal rights. It was a peaceful and determined insistence upon the ideals at the center of America's founding."

Seriously? Are we to believe the Civil War never happened?

SourceWiki

"The American Civil War was the deadliest war in American history, causing 620,000 soldier deaths and an undetermined number of civilian casualties. Its legacy includes ending slavery in the United States, restoring the Union, and strengthening the role of the federal government. The social, political, economic and racial issues of the war decisively shaped the reconstruction era that lasted to 1877, and brought changes that helped make the country a united superpower."


It seems like alot of fluff to me. History has proven that not all differences can be solved over tea and crumpets.

Well, what the fuck do you want him to say? That violence works? "Keep doing what you've been doing"? :disgust:

If Obama wants to talk about peace, I would like him to use examples that support his ideas, or at the very least don't contradict them. Is the so much to ask?

Wait, don't answer that. I already know

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Mr Pepper

Originally posted by: cyclohexane

Originally posted by: Mr Pepper
SourceCNN

Does anyone find his following statement odd:

"Resistance through violence and killing is wrong, and it does not succeed. For centuries, black people in America suffered the lash of the whip as slaves and the humiliation of segregation," he said. "It was not violence that won full and equal rights. It was a peaceful and determined insistence upon the ideals at the center of America's founding."

Seriously? Are we to believe the Civil War never happened?

SourceWiki

"The American Civil War was the deadliest war in American history, causing 620,000 soldier deaths and an undetermined number of civilian casualties. Its legacy includes ending slavery in the United States, restoring the Union, and strengthening the role of the federal government. The social, political, economic and racial issues of the war decisively shaped the reconstruction era that lasted to 1877, and brought changes that helped make the country a united superpower."


It seems like alot of fluff to me. History has proven that not all differences can be solved over tea and crumpets.

Well, what the fuck do you want him to say? That violence works? "Keep doing what you've been doing"? :disgust:

If Obama wants to talk about peace, I would like him to use examples that support his ideas, or at the very least don't contradict them. Is the so much to ask?

Wait, don't answer that. I already know

Why not assume you know nothing? Those are admirably goals you set for Obama. The problem is you lack the judgment to know when they've been met.

 

[Mr Pepper]

Possible, certainly. It's also plausible that you are long winded but say nothing. Either way, lets find some common ground here.

 

[n yusef]

Mr Pepper, abolishing slavery did little for the slaves. They were not compensated for their labor or given opportunities to work or study. Many slaves were forced to go back to work for their ex-masters, because that was the only way to get food and shelter.

Just because nominal freedom from slavery was a prerequisite to the Civil Rights Movement does not mean that it is more important or should be valued above the Civil Rights Movement. We built the foundation before the house, but the foundation is not important--the house is. Likewise, the Civil Rights Movement is far more important to the rights of black Americans than a political war fought because one group wanted to enslave a group of people that both groups wanted to oppress.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: Mr Pepper

Originally posted by: cyclohexane

Originally posted by: Mr Pepper
SourceCNN

Does anyone find his following statement odd:

"Resistance through violence and killing is wrong, and it does not succeed. For centuries, black people in America suffered the lash of the whip as slaves and the humiliation of segregation," he said. "It was not violence that won full and equal rights. It was a peaceful and determined insistence upon the ideals at the center of America's founding."

Seriously? Are we to believe the Civil War never happened?

SourceWiki

"The American Civil War was the deadliest war in American history, causing 620,000 soldier deaths and an undetermined number of civilian casualties. Its legacy includes ending slavery in the United States, restoring the Union, and strengthening the role of the federal government. The social, political, economic and racial issues of the war decisively shaped the reconstruction era that lasted to 1877, and brought changes that helped make the country a united superpower."


It seems like alot of fluff to me. History has proven that not all differences can be solved over tea and crumpets.

Well, what the fuck do you want him to say? That violence works? "Keep doing what you've been doing"? :disgust:

If Obama wants to talk about peace, I would like him to use examples that support his ideas, or at the very least don't contradict them. Is the so much to ask?

Wait, don't answer that. I already know

You are attempting to nitpick his words rather than look at the meaning/intent of the message that he is trying to convey.

 

[Mr Pepper]

Originally posted by: n yusef
Mr Pepper, abolishing slavery did little for the slaves. They were not compensated for their labor or given opportunities to work or study. Many slaves were forced to go back to work for their ex-masters, because that was the only way to get food and shelter.

Just because nominal freedom from slavery was a prerequisite to the Civil Rights Movement does not mean that it is more important or should be valued above the Civil Rights Movement. We built the foundation before the house, but the foundation is not important--the house is. Likewise, the Civil Rights Movement is far more important to the rights of black Americans than a political war fought because one group wanted to enslave a group of people that both groups wanted to oppress.

"but the foundation is not important--the house is"

Not true. Furthermore, a house cannot stand without a foundation. ..well, not for very long anyway.

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: Mr Pepper

Originally posted by: cyclohexane

Originally posted by: Mr Pepper
SourceCNN

Does anyone find his following statement odd:

"Resistance through violence and killing is wrong, and it does not succeed. For centuries, black people in America suffered the lash of the whip as slaves and the humiliation of segregation," he said. "It was not violence that won full and equal rights. It was a peaceful and determined insistence upon the ideals at the center of America's founding."

Seriously? Are we to believe the Civil War never happened?

SourceWiki

"The American Civil War was the deadliest war in American history, causing 620,000 soldier deaths and an undetermined number of civilian casualties. Its legacy includes ending slavery in the United States, restoring the Union, and strengthening the role of the federal government. The social, political, economic and racial issues of the war decisively shaped the reconstruction era that lasted to 1877, and brought changes that helped make the country a united superpower."


It seems like alot of fluff to me. History has proven that not all differences can be solved over tea and crumpets.

Well, what the fuck do you want him to say? That violence works? "Keep doing what you've been doing"? :disgust:

If Obama wants to talk about peace, I would like him to use examples that support his ideas, or at the very least don't contradict them. Is that so much to ask?

His examples don't contradict his statement. Quick facts on the U.S Civil War:

- President Lincoln, when he freed the slaves during the war, only freed the slaves in the parts of the country not under his control. The intended effect was to encourage slaves in the South to rebel and sabotage the Southern war machine.

- The slavery issue was more useful to keep Britiain and France out of joining the war or providing material assistance to the South than it was a moral issue to wage war upon.

- President Lincoln stated clearly in a speech that he was "not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races, [applause]?that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will for ever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race." Does that sound like the words of a man driven to end slavery?

If I had to boil it down to one thing, I would say that the U.S. Civil War was about control of the federal branch of the U.S. government as it related to shaping economic policy. The North and South, with their vastly different economy types and goals, could not be ruled by a single national government. When the South lost control of the federal branch, it decided to split. Then came war.

Civil War Diplomacy: The slavery issue and the end of confederate diplomacy

Lincoln's Black History

 

[Analogsoul]

Originally posted by: Mr Pepper

If Obama wants to talk about peace, I would like him to use examples that support his ideas, or at the very least don't contradict them. Is the so much to ask?

Wait, don't answer that. I already know

So the Civil Rights movement in the sixties wasn't peaceful? It's really a stretch to only think the Civil War has been the only movement for equal rights in this country. Especially since it was started by whites, and slavery ending being a byproduct of the war. Yes, slavery was one of the main reasons for the Civil War, but there were more nuanced reasons for why the South wanted to secede from the Union.

 

[Analogsoul]

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: Mr Pepper

Originally posted by: cyclohexane

Originally posted by: Mr Pepper
SourceCNN

Does anyone find his following statement odd:

"Resistance through violence and killing is wrong, and it does not succeed. For centuries, black people in America suffered the lash of the whip as slaves and the humiliation of segregation," he said. "It was not violence that won full and equal rights. It was a peaceful and determined insistence upon the ideals at the center of America's founding."

Seriously? Are we to believe the Civil War never happened?

SourceWiki

"The American Civil War was the deadliest war in American history, causing 620,000 soldier deaths and an undetermined number of civilian casualties. Its legacy includes ending slavery in the United States, restoring the Union, and strengthening the role of the federal government. The social, political, economic and racial issues of the war decisively shaped the reconstruction era that lasted to 1877, and brought changes that helped make the country a united superpower."


It seems like alot of fluff to me. History has proven that not all differences can be solved over tea and crumpets.

Well, what the fuck do you want him to say? That violence works? "Keep doing what you've been doing"? :disgust:

If Obama wants to talk about peace, I would like him to use examples that support his ideas, or at the very least don't contradict them. Is that so much to ask?

His examples don't contradict his statement. Quick facts on the U.S Civil War:

- President Lincoln, when he freed the slaves during the war, only freed the slaves in the parts of the country not under his control. The intended effect was to encourage slaves in the South to rebel and sabotage the Southern war machine.

- The slavery issue was more useful to keep Britiain and France out of joining the war or providing material assistance to the South than it was a moral issue to wage war upon.

- President Lincoln stated clearly in a speech that he was "not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races, [applause]?that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will for ever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race." Does that sound like the words of a man driven to end slavery?

If I had to boil it down to one thing, I would say that the U.S. Civil War was about control of the federal branch of the U.S. government as it related to shaping economic policy. The North and South, with their vastly different economy types and goals, could not be ruled by a single national government. When the South lost control of the federal branch, it decided to split. Then came war.

Civil War Diplomacy: The slavery issue and the end of confederate diplomacy

Lincoln's Black History

Exactly, I couldn't have said it better myself

OP: you should really watch Ken Burn's Civil War documentary in it's entirety. The first episode or two deals with the many issues/causes for the Civil War.

 

[Red Dawn]

Obama

Salaam Alaikum my brothers

 

[Mr Pepper]

Originally posted by: Analogsoul

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: Mr Pepper

Originally posted by: cyclohexane

Originally posted by: Mr Pepper
SourceCNN

Does anyone find his following statement odd:

"Resistance through violence and killing is wrong, and it does not succeed. For centuries, black people in America suffered the lash of the whip as slaves and the humiliation of segregation," he said. "It was not violence that won full and equal rights. It was a peaceful and determined insistence upon the ideals at the center of America's founding."

Seriously? Are we to believe the Civil War never happened?

SourceWiki

"The American Civil War was the deadliest war in American history, causing 620,000 soldier deaths and an undetermined number of civilian casualties. Its legacy includes ending slavery in the United States, restoring the Union, and strengthening the role of the federal government. The social, political, economic and racial issues of the war decisively shaped the reconstruction era that lasted to 1877, and brought changes that helped make the country a united superpower."


It seems like alot of fluff to me. History has proven that not all differences can be solved over tea and crumpets.

Well, what the fuck do you want him to say? That violence works? "Keep doing what you've been doing"? :disgust:

If Obama wants to talk about peace, I would like him to use examples that support his ideas, or at the very least don't contradict them. Is that so much to ask?

His examples don't contradict his statement. Quick facts on the U.S Civil War:

- President Lincoln, when he freed the slaves during the war, only freed the slaves in the parts of the country not under his control. The intended effect was to encourage slaves in the South to rebel and sabotage the Southern war machine.

- The slavery issue was more useful to keep Britiain and France out of joining the war or providing material assistance to the South than it was a moral issue to wage war upon.

- President Lincoln stated clearly in a speech that he was "not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races, [applause]?that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will for ever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race." Does that sound like the words of a man driven to end slavery?

If I had to boil it down to one thing, I would say that the U.S. Civil War was about control of the federal branch of the U.S. government as it related to shaping economic policy. The North and South, with their vastly different economy types and goals, could not be ruled by a single national government. When the South lost control of the federal branch, it decided to split. Then came war.

Civil War Diplomacy: The slavery issue and the end of confederate diplomacy

Lincoln's Black History

Exactly, I couldn't have said it better myself

I believe we already covered this earlier, but yes, I am aware that there were other factors as well as slavery that contributed to the war. The topic is certainly not "settled" among scholars regarding Lincoln's motivations and actions taken. Much is still speculation.

Regardless, the perspective is to be noted from the black American slave over that of the ruling authorities to fit the illustration given.

I would like to conclude this thread (at least on my part) and thank everyone for their input. I thought it was, overall, a good discussion and I respect the ideas and thoughts that were given.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Mr Pepper
SourceCNN

Does anyone find his following statement odd:

"Resistance through violence and killing is wrong, and it does not succeed. For centuries, black people in America suffered the lash of the whip as slaves and the humiliation of segregation," he said. "It was not violence that won full and equal rights. It was a peaceful and determined insistence upon the ideals at the center of America's founding."

Seriously? Are we to believe the Civil War never happened?

SourceWiki

"The American Civil War was the deadliest war in American history, causing 620,000 soldier deaths and an undetermined number of civilian casualties. Its legacy includes ending slavery in the United States, restoring the Union, and strengthening the role of the federal government. The social, political, economic and racial issues of the war decisively shaped the reconstruction era that lasted to 1877, and brought changes that helped make the country a united superpower."


It seems like alot of fluff to me. History has proven that not all differences can be solved over tea and crumpets.

If you search online you will see that on most sites their is agreement that the Civil war was NOT fought over the issue of Slavery!!

Many people think the Civil War of 1860-1865 was fought over one issue alone, slavery. Nothing could actually be further from the truth. The War Between the States began because the South demanded States' rights and were not getting them. The Congress at that time heavily favored the industrialized northern states to the point of demanding that the South sell is cotton and other raw materials only to the factories in the north, rather than to other countries. The Congress also taxed the finished materials that the northern industries produced heavily, making finished products that the South wanted, unaffordable.
You do not know your history...stay in school and graduate from High School!!

http://www.williammcdermott.co...civil_war_occurred.pdf

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: Mr Pepper

Originally posted by: cyclohexane

Originally posted by: Mr Pepper
SourceCNN

Does anyone find his following statement odd:

"Resistance through violence and killing is wrong, and it does not succeed. For centuries, black people in America suffered the lash of the whip as slaves and the humiliation of segregation," he said. "It was not violence that won full and equal rights. It was a peaceful and determined insistence upon the ideals at the center of America's founding."

Seriously? Are we to believe the Civil War never happened?

SourceWiki

"The American Civil War was the deadliest war in American history, causing 620,000 soldier deaths and an undetermined number of civilian casualties. Its legacy includes ending slavery in the United States, restoring the Union, and strengthening the role of the federal government. The social, political, economic and racial issues of the war decisively shaped the reconstruction era that lasted to 1877, and brought changes that helped make the country a united superpower."


It seems like alot of fluff to me. History has proven that not all differences can be solved over tea and crumpets.

Well, what the fuck do you want him to say? That violence works? "Keep doing what you've been doing"? :disgust:

If Obama wants to talk about peace, I would like him to use examples that support his ideas, or at the very least don't contradict them. Is the so much to ask?

Wait, don't answer that. I already know

You are attempting to nitpick his words rather than look at the meaning/intent of the message that he is trying to convey.

Can one of the mods please change Mr Pepper`s name to NitPicker......or nitpickingIdiot...lol

 

[ElFenix]

this may be possibly the dumbest thread on here since tuesday.

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
this may be possibly the dumbest thread on here since tuesday.

more like wednesday

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...=2308015&enterthread=y

Although PJ's tuesday thread certain was a doozy

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...=2307599&enterthread=y

 

[JEDIYoda]

Possibly the OP Mr Pepper is related to Budmanton.....

 

[GTaudiophile]

The entire speech if anyone wants to read it:

http://www.spiegel.de/internat.../0,1518,628538,00.html

 

[GTaudiophile]

But I do have an unyielding belief that all people yearn for certain things: the ability to speak your mind and have a say in how you are governed; confidence in the rule of law and the equal administration of justice; government that is transparent and doesn't steal from the people; the freedom to live as you choose. Those are not just American ideas, they are human rights, and that is why we will support them everywhere.

I LOLed at that one!