Obama supports the Constitutional Right of Mosque being built near WTC

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StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
The mosque is obviously in bad taste. Should it be legal, probably. Should the people who run it fvck off? Yes. They say it's peaceful, so go make a peaceful mosque elsewhere as this is clearly pissing off literally millions of people.
 

Narmer

Diamond Member
Aug 27, 2006
5,292
0
0
Why are they so adamant on building the mosque there? They must realize it will anger a lot of people and make it a target for right-wingers from all sides. They may have the right but they should also be conscious of the feelings of the community. BTW, I know a lot of Jews and Christians that live in that area (many atheists as well) but no muslims. I think it's there to provoke.
 
Dec 10, 2005
24,432
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The mosque is obviously in bad taste. Should it be legal, probably. Should the people who run it fvck off? Yes. They say it's peaceful, so go make a peaceful mosque elsewhere as this is clearly pissing off literally millions of people.

Yes, because there is tons of space available in Manhattan to do these kinds of things. It's 2 blocks away. How far is far enough? 3 blocks? 3 miles? Hoboken, NJ? There are already 2 other mosques in the area and they are sorely lacking in space: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/14/nyregion/14mosque.html?ref=nyregion
Both mosques — essentially one-room operations — routinely turn people away for lack of space.

And why is it in bad taste? It wasn't Islam that attacked us. It was a few extremist fuckheads that completely twist the meaning of Islam for the purpose of violence. To claim it is in bad taste is to draw some false link between American Muslims and Al-Qaeda.

Finally, it's not just this mosque/community center that is facing opposition. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/08/us/08mosque.html?scp=2&sq=mosque&st=cse
 

1prophet

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
5,313
534
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Having the right to do something doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.

WTC Mosque, Meet the Auschwitz Nuns

Pope John Paul offers a model of tolerance for a heated controversy.


  • By WILLIAM MCGURN




With every passing day, the dispute over the planned Islamic Center near Ground Zero grows more acrimonious. These feelings will probably only get worse today, when the New York City Landmark Preservation Commission is expected to remove another hurdle by ruling against landmark status for the undistinguished old building the center will replace.


The Journal Editorial Report panel discusses this week's ruling in favor of building a mosque near Ground Zero that has had New Yorkers intensely divided.


So maybe it's time to look beyond the lawyers and landmark preservation commissions and regulatory agencies. When we do, it will be hard to find a better example than the grace and wisdom Pope John Paul II exhibited during a similar clash involving another hallowed site on whose grounds innocents were also murdered: Auschwitz.
In the 1980s, Carmelite nuns moved into an abandoned building on the edge of the former Nazi death camp to pray for the souls taken there. As with the dispute over the mosque near Ground Zero, the convent's presence escalated into a clash not only between different faiths but between competing historical narratives. As with today's clash too, it seemed intractable until the Polish pope stepped in.

Pope John Paul II wasn't afraid to bend to others' sensitivities.

For Jews, Auschwitz is a symbol of the Shoah, and the presence of a convent looked like an effort to Christianize a place of Jewish suffering. Suspicions were further aroused by a fundraising brochure from an outside Catholic group, which referred to the convent as a "guarantee of the conversion of strayed brothers." The protests mounted over the course of several years and various interfaith agreements, and pointed to the real strains that remained between Poles and Jews over a shared history with very different perspectives.
Many Catholics, not just in Poland, could not understand how nuns begging God's forgiveness and praying for the souls of the departed could possibly offend anyone. There was also a nationalist element. Many members of the Polish resistance had also been murdered at Auschwitz. And again like our present controversy at Ground Zero, intemperate reactions and statements from both sides only inflamed passions.
So what did Pope John Paul II do? He waited, and he counseled. And when he saw that the nuns were not budging—and that their presence was doing more harm than good—he asked the Carmelites to move. He acknowledged that his letter would probably be a trial to each of the sisters, but asked them to accept it while continuing to pursue their mission in that same city at another convent that had been built for them.

Deputy Editorial Page Editor Bret Stephens and Editorial Board member Matthew Kaminski on the plan for a 'Mosque at Ground Zero,' and Senior Editorial Writer Joseph Rago reports on the Missouri results.

Let's remember what this means. By their own lights, the nuns believed they were doing only good. They may have had a legal title to be where they were. And it is likely that they never would have been forced to move by local authorities had they insisted on staying.
There's a lesson here. Even those who favor this new Islamic Center surely can appreciate why some American feelings are rubbed raw by the idea of a mosque at a place where Islamic terrorists killed more than 2,700 innocent people. If feelings in Auschwitz were raw after nearly half a century, it's not hard to see why they would remain raw at Ground Zero after less than a decade.
On the other hand, Mayor Michael Bloomberg is right about the law: Our freedom of religion means nothing if it doesn't mean freedom of religion for all. Indeed, the Becket Fund for Religious Liberty—a sort of ACLU for freedom of religion—has spent decades defending churches, synagogues, mosques and even a Zoroastrian temple against public officials who have tried to invoke zoning laws or arcane regulations to keep them off a property.



Yet not all big questions can—or should—be reduced to legal right. Living together as neighbors in a free and inescapably diverse society requires more skills than just knowing how to hire sharp lawyers. Sometimes it requires leaders willing to sound a grace note, even yielding to the feelings of others who may not see our plans the same way we do.
For their part, the two people at the heart of this center—Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf and his wife, Daisy Khan—defend the center as an antidote to 9/11. "Our religion has been hijacked by the extremists," Ms. Khan told National Public Radio, "and this center is going to create that counter-momentum which will amplify the voices of the moderate Muslims."
Perhaps. But it's hard to argue with the Anti-Defamation League's assessment that the controversy created by building the center at this location "is counterproductive to the healing process."
Without doubt Pope John Paul II did not share the more malevolent interpretations attached to the presence of the Carmelites at Auschwitz. By asking the nuns to withdraw, he didn't concede them either. What he did was recognize that having the right to do something doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.
http://online.wsj.com/article/NA_WSJ_PUB:SB10001424052748704271804575405330350430368.html
 

dwell

pics?
Oct 9, 1999
5,189
2
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The only fools who are offended by the mosque are those that equate all of Islam with the attack on the WTC. That somehow, even American citizens who happen to be Muslim share some responsibility for the attacks. You also have the right to be stupid in this country. Exercise it proudly.

What if I opened a Starbucks two blocks from Mecca? The only fools who are offended by a Western franchise are those that equate the West with the attacks on Iraq and Afghanistan, correct?
 
Dec 10, 2005
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What if I opened a Starbucks two blocks from Mecca? The only fools who are offended by a Western franchise are those that equate the West with the attacks on Iraq and Afghanistan, correct?

Yes, because we should look to Saudi Arabia when we want examples of religious and cultural tolerance. There isn't a big enough eye roll for this line of "reasoning."
 

Double Trouble

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,272
103
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This is an example of the president having a tin ear. While legally there's absolutely nothing wrong with building a center and mosque in that location, it's certainly understandable why it would rub people of this country the wrong way. The president should have left the matter alone, but by coming out (in front of a muslim group even) and supporting the mosque at ground zero, he's showing that he has a political tin ear.
 

Narmer

Diamond Member
Aug 27, 2006
5,292
0
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Yes, because there is tons of space available in Manhattan to do these kinds of things. It's 2 blocks away. How far is far enough? 3 blocks? 3 miles? Hoboken, NJ? There are already 2 other mosques in the area and they are sorely lacking in space: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/14/nyregion/14mosque.html?ref=nyregion


And why is it in bad taste? It wasn't Islam that attacked us. It was a few extremist fuckheads that completely twist the meaning of Islam for the purpose of violence. To claim it is in bad taste is to draw some false link between American Muslims and Al-Qaeda.

Finally, it's not just this mosque/community center that is facing opposition. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/08/us/08mosque.html?scp=2&sq=mosque&st=cse

It may not have been Islam but you don't see many muslims arguing against bin Laden. In fact, whenever 9/11 is brought up they always bring up Palestine and Iraq and Afghanistan, which is exactly the same point bin Laden is trying to make (attack the far enemy because of local grievences). So, if muslims habitually slip up and start pointing the finger at muslim grievences, what are people supposed to conclude?
 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
3
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Yes, because we should look to Saudi Arabia when we want examples of religious and cultural tolerance. There isn't a big enough eye roll for this line of "reasoning."

In the world of give and take, the world of people of diversity living together, compromise is the key. There is a compromise, but the Imam doesn't want it, therefore he isn't about "healing wounds" or creating dialogue.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
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And why is it in bad taste? It wasn't Islam that attacked us. It was a few extremist fuckheads that completely twist the meaning of Islam for the purpose of violence. To claim it is in bad taste is to draw some false link between American Muslims and Al-Qaeda.
You know why.
 

classy

Lifer
Oct 12, 1999
15,219
1
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Its disgraceful. Obama should have kept his damn mouth shut. Period. They have a mosque 12 blocks away, you need space, expand that one. The head of this venture blamed the US policies for 9/11 and never criticized Hamas.
 

dwell

pics?
Oct 9, 1999
5,189
2
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Yes, because we should look to Saudi Arabia when we want examples of religious and cultural tolerance. There isn't a big enough eye roll for this line of "reasoning."

But wait, isn't the origin and epicenter of Islam, Saudi Arabia? Got eye rolls big enough for your reasoning?
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,530
3
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Its disgraceful. Obama should have kept his damn mouth shut. Period. They have a mosque 12 blocks away, you need space, expand that one. The head of this venture blamed the US policies for 9/11 and never criticized Hamas.
Hamas was involved with 9/11?
 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
3
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But wait, isn't the origin and epicenter of Islam, Saudi Arabia? Got eye rolls big enough for your reasoning?


Which is exactly the point, if there's no tolerance in Muslim countries for other religions, what the hell makes people think they want tolerance here?
 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
3
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Hamas was involved with 9/11?

Why do you insist on putting words in people's mouths? That's not what he said at all. It goes directly to the heart of the man's intentions. I've heard plenty of Muslim call Hamas a terrorist organization, why won't he?

Jaskalas said:
It's a terrorist organization which they are quite sympathetic to.

Exactly.
 

dwell

pics?
Oct 9, 1999
5,189
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Which is exactly the point, if there's no tolerance in Muslim countries for other religions, what the hell makes people think they want tolerance here?

It goes to prove that Islam is a hateful and intolerant ideology. Putting a mosque two blocks from two WTC site is no different than opening a Nazi social club two blocks from Auschwitz.
 

her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
56,352
11
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This is an example of the president having a tin ear. While legally there's absolutely nothing wrong with building a center and mosque in that location, it's certainly understandable why it would rub people of this country the wrong way. The president should have left the matter alone, but by coming out (in front of a muslim group even) and supporting the mosque at ground zero, he's showing that he has a political tin ear.
Did you say the same thing on "Draw Mohammed Day"?

Disclaimer: Not a Muslim.
 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
3
76
The President is right.
The mosque has every right to be there like it or not.

Right, I think we've established that, but just because they have a right to do something doesn't make it a good idea. Neo-Nazi's have the right to speak of hating Jews, and minorities, is it a good idea?
 

her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
56,352
11
0
Right, I think we've established that, but just because they have a right to do something doesn't make it a good idea. Neo-Nazi's have the right to speak of hating Jews, and minorities, is it a good idea?
You mean like Draw Mohmmed Day? Oh wait.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,576
7,637
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The President is right.
The mosque has every right to be there like it or not.

You know how this is going to read?

Our Muslim President supports a Muslim Mosque near ground zero. You thought he had threats before....
 

cubby1223

Lifer
May 24, 2004
13,518
42
86
We must have these mosques everywhere because of our "principles", and yet Wal*Mart cannot build a store in the Democratically controlled Chicagoland area, where Obama came from, because the government continually says no.

See the hypocrisy here? There are no principles in this country, just ideology. And those in the government who declare we must allow the Mosque are hypocrites because they all have voted against allowing someone to build something else based solely on personal opinionated reasons.

(And FYI, Chicago did *finally* allow a Wal*Mart this year, but they had been blocked out of opening up a store throughout the years)
 
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