Obama: Surge Succeeded Beyond ?Wildest Dreams?

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
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116
Which is why he's been calling for a quick, responsible pull out.

The GOP line about Iraq:

We're failing, we can't leave now.

We're succeeding, we can't leave now.
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,816
83
91
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Which is why he's been calling for a quick, responsible pull out.

The GOP line about Iraq:

We're failing, we can't leave now.

We're succeeding, we can't leave now.

as opposed to the democratic line...

we're failing, we have to leave now.
we're succeeding, we have to leave now.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,530
3
0
Well it's obvious as there aren't hundreds of American Soldiers needlessly dying in Iraq anymore.
 

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
28,561
4
0
Actually the TACTIC of the surge worked.
The STRATEGY in Iraq is still a failure.
 

NFS4

No Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
72,647
27
91
Shit, at least he admitted the fact. No other democrat had the f*&king backbone to admit to one of the successes of the war.
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
Originally posted by: loki8481
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Which is why he's been calling for a quick, responsible pull out.

The GOP line about Iraq:

We're failing, we can't leave now.

We're succeeding, we can't leave now.

as opposed to the democratic line...

we're failing, we have to leave now.
we're succeeding, we have to leave now.
For a country that we shouldn't be occupying, in a war that we shouldn't have waged, that's a pretty darn good line.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
126
The problem is that the right would like to make the only issue whether things finally get any better, and to avoid looking at how the war has already been a disaster.

It's a little like a new technique forcing police to keep 1 bullet in their revolver. As police are killed again and again when the bullet isn't in the chamber, finally in an incident the bullet is in the chamber, and they say 'see, it worked!' Well, no, the Iraq war has apparently a cost in the trillions, with hundreds of thousands if not a million+ Iraqis killed out of a population of 28 million, the US has lots a lot of its values in things like torturing, it's set a precendent for incompetent and corrupt starting of war (where could that possibly cause a problem, as Putin prepares his explanation of his own pre-emptive war, and China can't wait to do the same in expanding its power in Asia) - the war has already had a disastrous price, and if it all goes well tomorrow it doesn't change that, doens't mean 'see they were right'.

At some point, it gets a bit outrageous, like comparing Germany's prosperity today and the poverty before WWII to say 'see, Hitler was right on the war'.

The left wants to see the best things now in Iraq. The right says otherwise not because it's true, but because it lets them have something to think they're right on and not pay attention to their having been wrong. Obama's statement IMO is politically calculated to take the wind out of the sails of McCain's expected argument tonight that the surge has only Republican support. McCain may well now be scrambling to refine the speech on that. It also reflects Obama doing what he does a lot (and lawyers know is often a good idea), acknowleding the other's points that have any merit, so when the surge has done some good, why not say so, and not make that the issue.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,570
7,631
136
Originally posted by: Craig234
It also reflects Obama doing what he does a lot (and lawyers know is often a good idea), acknowleding the other's points that have any merit, so when the surge has done some good, why not say so, and not make that the issue.

It is not an issue that the Republican backed surge turned around Iraqi security - and the Democrat's plan would have fed them to the wolves clear back in 2004 when term pullout was first used to gain political favor?
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Which is why he's been calling for a quick, responsible pull out.

The GOP line about Iraq:

We're failing, we can't leave now.

We're succeeding, we can't leave now.

Look, yet more lies today from our favorite hackster.
 

mshan

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2004
7,868
0
71
The surge is working because we are paying off our former enemies (the Sunnis) to be our allies against our former allies (The Shia) who are now our enemies because they are under the influence of Iran.

And whatever happened to our purported original enemy, secular Al Qaida in Iraq? (who reasoned voices said would be eliminated, by both the Sunni and Shia, once their usefulness against the American occupying force had been exhausted).

Well, yes, you guessed it, they're back in Afghanistan!

 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
Originally posted by: techs
Actually the TACTIC of the surge worked.
The STRATEGY in Iraq is still a failure.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It somewhat misses the point, its more the so called Ambar awakening that was the precursor that have caused the Sunnis to temporarily call off their violence, as a larger Shia majority brought ethnic cleansing to the Sunnis. Leaving Al-Quida, whose objective is to stir up anti US violence, some what the unwelcome guest of the Sunni
host who caught the hell.

Without the Anbar awakening, the surge or should I say the mini surge would have flopped, but the combination of the two did in fact reinforce each other.

But as was pointed out recently, as the US does desurge and Malihi now takes over, the question is if a Shia Maliki will continue to subsidize Sunni insurgent leaders? If he does starve them and ends the Sunni bribes, will all bets be off?

We may soon find out, sooner or later.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
Originally posted by: NFS4
Shit, at least he admitted the fact. No other democrat had the f*&king backbone to admit to one of the successes of the war.
To their defense, after 100 pieces of sh*t are put in your mouth and all taste like sh*t, your initial impression when you see a piece of fudge will be that it's sh*t as well.

Unfortunately, success with the surge, for whatever impact it had on the proceedings, has overshadowed the original folly, for which I see far too little contrition, especially from the guy who espouses himself champion of the surge and who we also know what champion of the fvckup to begin with. Do we commend an arson who sets a building on fire and after several attempts finally does a half decent job at putting out the fire? It certainly seems so.

Something we all must wonder about is if McCain gets into office in part resting on his laurels of a surge that, despite a decrease in violence hasn't actually solved anything, and then things fall apart again, what tricks will he be able to pull out in subsequent years that haven't already been tried?

 

winnar111

Banned
Mar 10, 2008
2,847
0
0
Originally posted by: NFS4
Shit, at least he admitted the fact. No other democrat had the f*&king backbone to admit to one of the successes of the war.

True enough. Better late then never.

It's easy not to stick your neck out and vote Present. John McCain takes leadership and controversial positions on the immigration issue last year to get something done and Obama sits back and watches.

Leadership!
 

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,547
651
126
That's funny. Only a couple of months ago he looked like a fool trying to defend that the surge wasn't successful on Nightline.
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
Originally posted by: NFS4
Shit, at least he admitted the fact. No other democrat had the f*&king backbone to admit to one of the successes of the war.

They went heavy with the we're getting out of Iraq campaign, so admitting such is a weakening of their platform. With the pentagon talking about accelerating the troop removal from Iraq, that's not going to be a sustainable major leg for a platform that hasn't been balanced with many other issues.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
Originally posted by: winnar111
Originally posted by: NFS4
Shit, at least he admitted the fact. No other democrat had the f*&king backbone to admit to one of the successes of the war.

True enough. Better late then never.

It's easy not to stick your neck out and vote Present. John McCain takes leadership and controversial positions on the immigration issue last year to get something done and Obama sits back and watches.

Leadership!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The fact is that leadership will involve diplomacy. GWB&co is certainly diplomacy missing in action in Iraq and if McCain does not understand the difference between Shia and Sunni, ole John is somewhat hopeless as well.

And in terms of our own immigration issue, McCain bottom line got nothing done as his own party kicked him in the teeth.

On balance, McCain shows no leadership, but then again, either does Obama.
 

winnar111

Banned
Mar 10, 2008
2,847
0
0
Originally posted by: Lemon law
Originally posted by: winnar111
Originally posted by: NFS4
Shit, at least he admitted the fact. No other democrat had the f*&king backbone to admit to one of the successes of the war.

True enough. Better late then never.

It's easy not to stick your neck out and vote Present. John McCain takes leadership and controversial positions on the immigration issue last year to get something done and Obama sits back and watches.

Leadership!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The fact is that leadership will involve diplomacy. GWB&co is certainly diplomacy missing in action in Iraq and if McCain does not understand the difference between Shia and Sunni, ole John is somewhat hopeless as well.

And in terms of our own immigration issue, McCain bottom line got nothing done as his own party kicked him in the teeth.

On balance, McCain shows no leadership, but then again, either does Obama.

So what? At least he tried something. At least Ted Kennedy tried something. At least he had the guts to attempt to challenge his own party on what might be the most important issue considered in Obama's mediocre 4 year Senate career.

I guess its easy to march in lockstep; whether its on filibustering judicial nominees or war funding bills.

 

conehead433

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 2002
5,566
890
126
The so called surge is a bunch of BS. We increased troop strength to what we had started with and it's suddenly the most brilliant military tactic in history. If the idiots who had planned the war had sent in enough troops to get the job done at the outset we would have never had to increase troop levels to what we had before they also stupidly withdrew troops thinking 'Mission Accomplished'.
 

sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,493
3,159
136
Hey...
I don?t even have to read this troll post to know the whole story.

No doubt, Obama added, "but we should NOT have been there IN THE FIRST PLACE".

You see, if we invaded Mexico, suffered losses, then had a US surge and gained some ground, THAT WOULD NOT make the Mexico invasion justified!!!!!!!!!!!!

As usual, the GOP is the party of DELUSIONAL thinking.

Delusional, what is that you may ask?

Delusional disorder is a psychiatric diagnosis denoting a psychotic mental illness that involves holding one or more non-bizarre delusions in the absence of any other significant psychopathology (signs or symptoms of mental illness). In particular, a person with delusional disorder has never met any other criteria for schizophrenia and does not have any marked hallucinations, although tactile (touch) or olfactory (smell) hallucinations may be present if they are related to the theme of the delusion.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,530
3
0
The Republicans don't give a shit about our soldiers, they're just pawns for their fucked up Foreign Policy.
 

RichardE

Banned
Dec 31, 2005
10,246
2
0
So the solution was to send more troups to Iraq, something Bush and Co fired people for suggesting. Before the invasion we were told there were not enough troups to make it peacefull, now that they finally listened and sent in the recommended number of troups (a number had before the invasion) and it worked they look like they had a good tactic ect ect.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
Originally posted by: OrByte
We should have never went into Iraq to begin with.
Thanks for stating the obvious... i guess...

Please let us know when you return to 2008.

We'll throw a party, or something... :roll:
 
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