Obama to announce changes to NSA surveillance on Jan. 17

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
With the speech just concluded, the pertinent facts are:

Washington Post - Everything you need to know about Obama’s NSA reforms, in plain English

President Obama is making major changes to the NSA's phone record surveillance program Friday — the one first unveiled last summer by former NSA contractor Edward Snowden and what kicked off months of controversy. Here, in plain English, is what will happen next.

The NSA won't get to decide when it pulls information from the phone records database.

Until now, intelligence analysts have been able to "query" the database so long as they've determined a given phone number is subject to "reasonable, articulable suspicion." Critics have said that gives the NSA too much power to snoop on people. So Obama is going to require that whenever an analyst wants to query the database, they'll have to get permission from the secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court first. The FISA court has not previously been in the position of approving individual requests.

When the NSA does query the database, they can't go as far.

Given a certain phone number, the NSA is currently allowed to look at any phone number that is connected to the first, any number that is connected to that number, and any number that is connected to that number. It's what people in the industry call the "three hops" rule, for the three degrees of separation from the original number. Effective immediately, however, analysts will now be limited to making just two hops. It'll limit the range of people who will potentially fall under the NSA's gaze.

The phone records database may be put in the hands of a third party.

This is a longer-term change that won't take effect immediately. President Obama's advisers are going to have 60 days from Friday to recommend how to move the database away from government control. There are a few ways this could happen: 1) The data are held by the phone companies rather than being handed over; 2) the intelligence community relies on "existing programs and capabilities [...] to map terrorist connections," as a senior administration official put it Friday; or 3) some other idea.

It's not clear whether the second idea would mean getting rid of the database entirely. A cynic might worry that the database simply gets handed to another government agency. But officials Friday seemed to indicate otherwise.

"The bottom line is, we are ending the program as it currently exists," a senior administration official said. "The government will no longer hold this telephony metadata."
Obama will ask Congress to convene a panel of public advocates to represent consumers before the FISA court.

The members of this panel, to be drawn from civil liberties, technology and privacy advocates, will be given security clearances and other benefits. Their job will be to represent Americans, but only when the FISA court faces "novel issues of law," according to a senior administration official. In other words, those advocates will become involved when the FISA court encounters a question or type of data it hasn't dealt with before. But officials Friday weren't clear about whether they would be called in by the court or if they could weigh in of their own volition.

What don't these reforms cover?

These reforms are narrowly targeted at the NSA's phone metadata program under Section 215 of the Patriot Act. They don't cover other programs the government carries out under Section 215, such as the reported scraping of financial information by the CIA. They don't address the NSA's counter-encryption activities or any geolocation information that the NSA may have or may be collecting. They also don't address other programs like those conducted under Section 702 of the FISA Amendments Act, which is the authority under which PRISM operates. Some of the reforms, both on the telephony metadata surveillance and others that the President is announcing today, require an act of Congress, and given the Senate's general support for the NSA throughout the controversy, it's unclear how much traction these proposals will get. Much of the spying that happens internationally will also remain untouched.

Additional reforms aside from those affecting Section 215 include: Deciding not to spy on "dozens" of foreign heads of state or heads of government. Some protections applied to U.S. citizens abroad will also now be applied to foreign nationals. And companies will be able to make more disclosures about government data requests, including on National Security Letters, which will no longer be secret "indefinitely."

This appears to be the video archive of the speech.

--

Wonder what it'll be - meaningful reform, or further entrenchment of spying on citizens?

Washington Post - Obama to announce changes to NSA surveillance on Jan. 17

President Obama will deliver his highly anticipated speech on reforms to the National Security Agency on Jan. 17, White House press secretary Jay Carney said Friday.

Carney did not elaborate on what the president will say when he outlines his vision for changes to the NSA’s vast surveillance activities. The address comes in the wake of disclosures from documents stolen by former government contractor Edward Snowden.

Obama and his aides have been focused behind the scenes this week on finishing a review of the spy programs and preparing for the president’s address to the nation. Privacy and civil liberties activists, along with top executives of technology company, are calling on the president to adopt sweeping reforms to curb the NSA’s collection of phone call metadata and personal information of online users.

U.S. defense and intelligence agencies have argued that such information is necessary to keep the public safe. But a White House advisory board report issued in December found no evidence that such data had prevented any terrorist attacks.
 
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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,574
7,637
136
His words were often flavored as a "man of the people" during campaigns, but his actions as President have been for the State. I do not believe he will deviate from standard practice, I do not believe he is a man of the people nor of principle to protect us.

Maybe he can prove me wrong.
 

UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
19,275
1,361
126
I'm sure they'll put in some sort of representative to argue on the peoples behalf in the FISA courts. And that person will be appointed by the president. And thus, will be a useless puppet. Everything still behind closed doors. Nothing at all changes.

Sorry Obama. You had my vote, twice unfortunately. Now I don't believe a damned word that comes out of your mouth.
 
Dec 26, 2007
11,783
2
76
I'm sure they'll put in some sort of representative to argue on the peoples behalf in the FISA courts. And that person will be appointed by the president. And thus, will be a useless puppet. Everything still behind closed doors. Nothing at all changes.

Sorry Obama. You had my vote, twice unfortunately. Now I don't believe a damned word that comes out of your mouth.

This.

I really wish we weren't in this "pick the one who will do the least amount of damage" style of elections. I would not have voted for Obama a second time if the Republicans had put forth a viable candidate. Unfortunately they have let their fringe take over the party so the Democrats are the only ones who are really putting up anybody remotely close to being a good candidate.

I even question if I'd vote for Hillary without reservation.

If he actually implements any kind of reform I will be shocked. Even after the group he appointed said basically the same as the EFF/ACLU/other civil liberties groups, and were industry people themselves. I have to give them credit though for doing what appears to be a fair and rational report instead of what I expected, namely a shill of a report that said "oh yeah give them more money they are doing great!"
 

Fox5

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
5,957
7
81
U.S. defense and intelligence agencies have argued that such information is necessary to keep the public safe. But a White House advisory board report issued in December found no evidence that such data had prevented any terrorist attacks.

Of course the data hasn't prevented any terrorist attacks. It's about revenge and the protracted "war on terror" that has been going on since we invaded Afghanistan. We launch drone strikes against terrorists all the time, despite many of them having never having attacked America or had direct involvement in any attacks against America. Do people forget that we actually are engaging in war so easily that they can be told something's for defense and take that at face value?
 

DucatiMonster696

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2009
4,269
1
71
This.

I really wish we weren't in this "pick the one who will do the least amount of damage" style of elections. I would not have voted for Obama a second time if the Republicans had put forth a viable candidate. Unfortunately they have let their fringe take over the party so the Democrats are the only ones who are really putting up anybody remotely close to being a good candidate.

I even question if I'd vote for Hillary without reservation.

If he actually implements any kind of reform I will be shocked. Even after the group he appointed said basically the same as the EFF/ACLU/other civil liberties groups, and were industry people themselves. I have to give them credit though for doing what appears to be a fair and rational report instead of what I expected, namely a shill of a report that said "oh yeah give them more money they are doing great!"


Essentially what you wanted is a Democrat in Republican's clothing. So in essence you would of voted for Obama no matter what because you are a lock step voter who falls naively for populist rhetoric and anyone who would shake up the system and question the size and scope of government, its actions, or the desire for others to use government as a club against other groups of Americans is not what you are looking for in the end. Also as for "fringe" candidates, Romney was about as radical as pasteurized milk or serving white bread with peanut butter and jelly.
 
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Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
3
0
He campaigned against the overreaching Bush administration, got into office and had it revealed he took overreaching to a whole new level. Then he had to explain how his overreaching was a good thing. I can't wait to hear what's next.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,145
10
81
He will announce Clapper to investigate Clapper.

/this

I'm sure they'll put in some sort of representative to argue on the peoples behalf in the FISA courts. And that person will be appointed by the president. And thus, will be a useless puppet. Everything still behind closed doors. Nothing at all changes.

Sorry Obama. You had my vote, twice unfortunately. Now I don't believe a damned word that comes out of your mouth.

and this.


so in other words NOTHING WILL FUCKING CHANGE
 

destey

Member
Jan 17, 2008
146
0
71
I'll be paying attention only to see how parallel we've become to Animal Farm and 1984. Other than that, its all lies, doublespeak and spin, to hide the immense power the State has become and will further become.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,415
14,307
136
I'm not apologizing for anyone, and am strongly opposed to what the NSA is doing, but I do have to marvel at those who think Obama (or any President) has the broad and sweeping powers that you attribute to him. He doesn't. And God help us if any President ever did.
 

SaurusX

Senior member
Nov 13, 2012
993
0
41
I'm not apologizing for anyone, and am strongly opposed to what the NSA is doing, but I do have to marvel at those who think Obama (or any President) has the broad and sweeping powers that you attribute to him. He doesn't. And God help us if any President ever did.

Ask yourself this: could Obama change what the NSA is doing right at this very moment if he wanted to? With a word he could make them change course. He says "jump" and they say "how high?" just like every other government agency. By saying he doesn't have the power is just a way for Obama supporters to absolve him of any culpability or guilt. He's guilty as all hell.
 

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
11,843
8,432
136
Ask yourself this: could Obama change what the NSA is doing right at this very moment if he wanted to? With a word he could make them change course. He says "jump" and they say "how high?" just like every other government agency. By saying he doesn't have the power is just a way for Obama supporters to absolve him of any culpability or guilt. He's guilty as all hell.

The last president that tried something like that was Kennedy. And that didn't work out too well for him.
 
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Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,415
14,307
136
Ask yourself this: could Obama change what the NSA is doing right at this very moment if he wanted to? With a word he could make them change course. He says "jump" and they say "how high?" just like every other government agency. By saying he doesn't have the power is just a way for Obama supporters to absolve him of any culpability or guilt. He's guilty as all hell.

Not even. If Obama actually did try to take any meaningful action with the NSA on this issue, the first thing that senior management at the NSA would do is to remind Obama that the NSAs charter and funding come from Congress. If Obama persisted, it would likely ruin his entire administration.

I find it hard to believe that anyone in the US actually thinks our government operates as you describe.
 
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AdamantC

Senior member
Apr 19, 2011
478
0
76
I'll take "meaningless reform, with further entrenchment of spying on citizens."
 

compuwiz1

Admin Emeritus Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
27,113
925
126
I just love how this administration tends to appoint foxes to investigate henhouse crimes.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
Not even. If Obama actually did try to take any meaningful action with the NSA on this issue, the first thing thatCo senior management at the NSA would do is to remind that the NSAs charter and funding come from Congress. If Obama persisted, it would likely ruin his entire administration.

I find it hard to believe that anyone in the US actually thinks our government operates as you describe.

The NSA and other intelligence agencies answer to the DNI who by law is answerable to and under the direct control of the President. This allowed an unprecedented level of tampering by the Bush administration. These powers have not been revoked.
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
201
101
I'm guessing there will be some sock puppet appointed to oversee what's going on. Basically, pretending to reform when in fact no real reform is taking place. Lies as usual, what makes anyone expect anything different?
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,415
14,307
136
The NSA and other intelligence agencies answer to the DNI who by law is answerable to and under the direct control of the President. This allowed an unprecedented level of tampering by the Bush administration. These powers have not been revoked.

Was the NSA opposed to Bushs tampering?
 
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