Obama: trade deals have hurt Americans

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
126
Economic isolationism is a bunch of crap. I will give Hillary credit for understanding trade benefits the country. She will flip on TPP after the election imo.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,775
49,431
136
http://www.breitbart.com/2016-presi...als-hurt-everyday-americans-people-lost-jobs/

But hey let's do more. Tpp won't fuck over America like nafta did. Trust me.

Breitbart with yet another lie of a headline. You're so easily duped. This is what happens when you get your news from untrustworthy sources. If you were more objective you would notice that.

Here's what Obama said in context:

We are part of a global economy. We're not reversing that. It can't be reversed, because it is driven by technology, and it is driven by travel and cargo containers, and the fact that the demand for products inside of our country means we've got to get some things from other places, and our export sector is a huge contributor to jobs and our economic wellbeing. Most manufactured products now involve a global supply chain where parts are made in all corners of the globe, and converge and then get assembled and packaged and sold. And so the notion that we're going to pull that up root and branch is unrealistic. Point number one.

Point number two. It is absolutely true, the evidence shows that some past trade deals have not delivered on all the benefits that were promised and had very localized costs. There were communities that were hurt because plants moved out. People lost jobs. Jobs were created because of those trade deals, but jobs were also lost. And people who experienced those losses, those communities didn't get as much help as they needed to.

Obama was saying that free trade costs some jobs in localized sectors and created jobs in others. That's just a basic fact of increasing efficiency, the less efficient producers go away and new markets make new jobs. It's a feature, not a bug. He's totally right that the US hasn't done enough to make sure the gains from free trade are distributed evenly either, but that's hardly for lack of trying.

Autarky is for fools.
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
Breitbart with yet another lie of a headline. You're so easily duped. This is what happens when you get your news from untrustworthy sources. If you were more objective you would notice that.

Here's what Obama said in context:



Obama was saying that free trade costs some jobs in localized sectors and created jobs in others. That's just a basic fact of increasing efficiency, the less efficient producers go away and new markets make new jobs. It's a feature, not a bug. He's totally right that the US hasn't done enough to make sure the gains from free trade are distributed evenly either, but that's hardly for lack of trying.

Autarky is for fools.
No, freeing up our markets hen others do not and manipulate that relationship is for fools.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,775
49,431
136
Did you ever consider that an isolationist approach would ultimately do more harm to Americans? The idea that trade deals = bad, isolationism = good is way over simplifying a complex issue.

He's parroting Trump's line that trade is fine so long as we get mythical 'better deals' that he can neither define or explain why other countries would agree to them.

In other words: total bullshit.
 

Sonikku

Lifer
Jun 23, 2005
15,752
4,562
136
Who ever said anything about economic isolationism?

I think trade is good with countries with comparable labor/environmental laws as our own. If it's free trade with countries with a blatant lack of labor laws, sweat shops, 16 hour days, hazardous working conditions etc then the answer is no. Americans can't compete with that. It is foolish to try. And even forgetting that for a moment, I can see no justifiable reason for why US dollars should be actively enabling and facilitating such horrible working conditions around the globe.
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
He's parroting Trump's line that trade is fine so long as we get mythical 'better deals' that he can neither define or explain why other countries would agree to them.

In other words: total bullshit.
Which trade deals account for currency manipulation, soes, government financing...etc?
 

Spungo

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2012
3,217
2
81
http://www.breitbart.com/2016-presi...als-hurt-everyday-americans-people-lost-jobs/

But hey let's do more. Tpp won't fuck over America like nafta did. Trust me.
Welcome to the world of politics. Say what is morally or factually correct and then do the opposite of what you just said.
Iran is America's enemy, but we shouldn't let that get in the way of selling weapons to them.

I remember Jon Stewart having a bit about that obese republican politician from Georgia or Alabama that I can't remember the name of. He was extremely unpopular because he was saying what mainstream republicans believe. Get rid of minimum wage, get students to clean the schools, it'll build character, etc. The joke was that you shouldn't actually tell people what you believe - they'll never vote for you if you do that!
 
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dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,211
3,622
126
LegendKiller, what specifically are you against in the TPP and what in it are you for?

Note: the TPP has very little to do with free trade. It does have a bit of free trade text in it, but we already have free trade with almost all major countries in the TPP. Are you (like most people who haven't read the TPP) confusing this with the TTIP which is a significant free trade deal?
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Whether we like it or not, Obama's description of how stuff gets done is highly accurate. Capitalism has moved to a higher level of organization than ever before. We the People need to move in the same direction or our interests will simply be overrun by those interests.

We won't do that thinking we're each John Galt or the Lone Ranger. Extreme idealizations of independence, individualism & the importance of a work ethic won't serve us in an economy increasingly dominated by hedge fund ownership, automation & robot technology.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
Breitbart with yet another lie of a headline. You're so easily duped. This is what happens when you get your news from untrustworthy sources. If you were more objective you would notice that.

Here's what Obama said in context:



Obama was saying that free trade costs some jobs in localized sectors and created jobs in others. That's just a basic fact of increasing efficiency, the less efficient producers go away and new markets make new jobs. It's a feature, not a bug. He's totally right that the US hasn't done enough to make sure the gains from free trade are distributed evenly either, but that's hardly for lack of trying.

Autarky is for fools.

Some jobs would have been lost and others gained no matter what trade deals (or lack thereof) we have in place, that's the nature of capitalism. Unfortunately we now have a government who thinks it's their job to address every possible misfortune of life or hardship people may face. Presidents and legislators aren't there to pass laws that create a regulatory framework, they are there to "create jobs."
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
Welcome to the world of politics. Say what is morally or factually correct and then do the opposite of what you just said.
Iran is America's enemy, but we shouldn't let that get in the way of selling weapons to them.

I remember Jon Stewart having a bit about that obese republican politician from Georgia or Alabama that I can't remember the name of. He was extremely unpopular because he was saying what mainstream republicans believe. Get rid of minimum wage, get students to clean the schools, it'll build character, etc. The joke was that you shouldn't actually tell people what you believe - they'll never vote for you if you do that!
Not to mention give them 400mm in ransom money while we get a shitty deal and our sailors humiliated.
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
Whether we like it or not, Obama's description of how stuff gets done is highly accurate. Capitalism has moved to a higher level of organization than ever before. We the People need to move in the same direction or our interests will simply be overrun by those interests.

We won't do that thinking we're each John Galt or the Lone Ranger. Extreme idealizations of independence, individualism & the importance of a work ethic won't serve us in an economy increasingly dominated by hedge fund ownership, automation & robot technology.
No, certain countries have exploited western weakness for idealistic and naive standards of "free trade" to extract maximum value while offering little in return. Other countries, such as germany, choose to protect their people form this as much as possible. Others, like our own government, sell our jobs to the highest bidder for personal gain.

Much like illegal immigration. Sell the jobs for votes, give those who lost the jobs free shit for votes.
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,211
3,622
126
Other countries, such as germany, choose to protect their people form this as much as possible.
Umm, that is what the TPP is about - protecting the US people as much as possible. You seem to be arguing against the TTIP (which can be a valid anti-trade argument).
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,828
34,765
136
Not to mention give them 400mm in ransom money while we get a shitty deal and our sailors humiliated.

We paid them ransom using their own money we already previously agreed to return to them? That's a curious interpretation or Obama is the best negotiator in history.
 

1prophet

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
5,313
534
126
I think trade is good with countries with comparable labor/environmental laws as our own. If it's free trade with countries with a blatant lack of labor laws, sweat shops, 16 hour days, hazardous working conditions etc then the answer is no. Americans can't compete with that. It is foolish to try. And even forgetting that for a moment, I can see no justifiable reason for why US dollars should be actively enabling and facilitating such horrible working conditions around the globe.

This,

but according to the free trade apologists (many who pretend are pro-union, harp for $15.00 minimum wage, want every regulation under the sun enforced for American businesses, want paid maternity leave, employee funded healthcare, European style vacation days, etc)

magically come out in support of these free trade agreements that allow companies that outsource to bypass all that and claim it's a good thing.

Two perfect examples that represent the two-face democrat party of today, they will point the finger at the evil republicans when it comes to US based workers rights, environmental,$15 minimum wage, working conditions, healthcare, unions, maternity leave, etc. ,

but magically turn around and support free trade agreements that help undercut all that like it's a good thing and call those against it isolationists if it's their man (Obama or Clinton) at the helm and rationalize it away with words like efficiency while doing the dirty work of the 1%, you know the rich, they same rich they always like to criticize for not paying their fair share.

Whether we like it or not, Obama's description of how stuff gets done is highly accurate. Capitalism has moved to a higher level of organization than ever before. We the People need to move in the same direction or our interests will simply be overrun by those interests.

We won't do that thinking we're each John Galt or the Lone Ranger. Extreme idealizations of independence, individualism & the importance of a work ethic won't serve us in an economy increasingly dominated by hedge fund ownership, automation & robot technology.


Breitbart with yet another lie of a headline. You're so easily duped. This is what happens when you get your news from untrustworthy sources. If you were more objective you would notice that.

Here's what Obama said in context:



Obama was saying that free trade costs some jobs in localized sectors and created jobs in others. That's just a basic fact of increasing efficiency, the less efficient producers go away and new markets make new jobs. It's a feature, not a bug. He's totally right that the US hasn't done enough to make sure the gains from free trade are distributed evenly either, but that's hardly for lack of trying.

Autarky is for fools.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,775
49,431
136
This,

but according to the free trade apologists (many who pretend are pro-union, harp for $15.00 minimum wage, want every regulation under the sun enforced for American businesses, want paid maternity leave, employee funded healthcare, European style vacation days, etc)

magically come out in support of these free trade agreements that allow companies that outsource to bypass all that and claim it's a good thing.

Two perfect examples that represent the two-face democrat party of today, they will point the finger at the evil republicans when it comes to US based workers rights, environmental,$15 minimum wage, working conditions, healthcare, unions, maternity leave, etc. ,

but magically turn around and support free trade agreements that help undercut all that like it's a good thing and call those against it isolationists if it's their man (Obama or Clinton) at the helm and rationalize it away with words like efficiency while doing the dirty work of the 1%, you know the rich, they same rich they always like to criticize for not paying their fair share.

Free trade is one of the few subjects where economists are basically unanimous in it being a positive thing for a country such as the US.

Free trade in no way undercuts the US's ability to implement worker rights, environmental protections, etc and it makes our country as a whole richer. What we do with that extra money is the issue in question here and yes, conservatives don't want to spread the additionally generated wealth around, which is a problem.

I've always been curious as to what exactly attracts people about trade isolationism. Do you think if we suddenly decide to get rid of foreign trade that the US will be better off? If so, check out North Korea. Juche has been a big hit over there! Do you think we should just somehow negotiate better trade deals with other countries? If so, why would they accept?
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,195
126
Trump makes his merchandise overseas and wants to bring in foreign workers for his hotels. I guess he knows better than to hire people stupid enough to vote for him.
 

blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
8,656
491
126
Economic isolationism is a bunch of crap. I will give Hillary credit for understanding trade benefits the country. She will flip on TPP after the election imo.

Germany is one country that isn't economically isolated yet they also have real protections for manufacturing sectors while being active in global trade.

Unfortunately the U.S. does not have those protections so most of the trade benefits to the U.S., other than cheaper (in all senses of the word) goods, will accrue to those in the top economic tiers while the costs will mainly be felt by the vast majority of Americans.

I also believe she will flip on the TPP. That's why she doesn't get my vote.

We shouldn't do things out of order and implement more trade deals before taking steps to ensure that our middle class will be protected.


_____________
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
126
What is it about fair trade people like you do not understand?

Nobody said anything about isolationism, but your first comments are about isolationism.

Because at the end of the day any "fair" trade deal is to protect the American workers salary. To do that requires protectionism\isolationism. Not participating in the global markets.
 
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