Obama vows to veto House bill to extend payroll tax cut

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Ausm

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
25,215
14
81
So in summary, the post turtle is against creating new jobs, is against cheaper energy, and wants to raise everyone's taxes.

Lets make sure everyone keeps these things in mind as we head to 2012.

Nice Republican talking points regurgitation.
 

drebo

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,035
1
81
There are 3 issues

1. payroll and ss tax cuts for 140 million people

2. tax increases on the top 1%

3. a pipeline for oil

So everybody wants the ss and payroll tax cuts but obama wants tax hike on the top 1%

repugs want a pipeline. It has nothing to do with the issue of taxes they just want to poison the bill that they made to get obama to veto a tax cut. Its just politics.

All three sound like pretty good ideas. Why's there a problem, again?

I dislike adding unrelated items to bills, as well, but in this case, it could be argued that the extra tax revenue from those being hired to build the pipeline will offset the lost tax revenue from the unincreased payroll and SS taxes.

In general, however, I would simply prefer lower taxes and less spending.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
126
Maybe because "the creation of tens of thousands of union jobs" is a fairy tale.

A project that requires a pipeline be built and jobs created to do it is a fairy tale. A stimulus package that had money go into a hole created millions of jobs.

Makes sense, if this were democrat hack land.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
All three sound like pretty good ideas. Why's there a problem, again?

I dislike adding unrelated items to bills, as well, but in this case, it could be argued that the extra tax revenue from those being hired to build the pipeline will offset the lost tax revenue from the unincreased payroll and SS taxes.

In general, however, I would simply prefer lower taxes and less spending.

They should just put the bill up as it was. The issue is that the dems made a bill that made the repugs look bad because they would block a small tax increase on the 1% and 140 million americans would get a tax increase.

And the dems will look bad because of a pipeline? I dunno maybe. But I think this will backfire on the repugs. Not to most of the idiots here but to the general public that is more free thinking.
 

drebo

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,035
1
81
I don't give a shit about who looks bad and who looks good. I only care about who does best for society.

If a democrat was running for office that pledged to get rid of backdoor politics and focus on fixing problems domestically, rather than extending foreign wars, and had a proven voting record to back up his claims, I would vote for him. People put way too much stock in the little D, R, or I next to a candidate's name.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
126
You are dumb enough to believe that the oil sands will drop our oil prices?

Oh,I guess I just answered my question.

It WILL provide American jobs which will provide revenue for the US government (and potentially cut spending if some of the people hired are currently unemployed) and it will reduce our dependence on ME oil. It might also help our exports of refined product.

You're correct though, it won't lower the price at the pump.
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,040
136
A project that requires a pipeline be built and jobs created to do it is a fairy tale. A stimulus package that had money go into a hole created millions of jobs.

Makes sense, if this were democrat hack land.

Only a hack would believe "tens of thousands of union jobs" will be created.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
126
They should just put the bill up as it was. The issue is that the dems made a bill that made the repugs look bad because they would block a small tax increase on the 1% and 140 million americans would get a tax increase.

And the dems will look bad because of a pipeline? I dunno maybe. But I think this will backfire on the repugs. Not to most of the idiots here but to the general public that is more free thinking.

Have you talked to the "general public" lately? They will believe whatever the headline says. If it says "Obama veto middle class tax cuts" that is what they will believe.
 
Nov 30, 2006
15,456
389
121
Looks like Obama also wants to risk shutting down our goverment over this issue. After all that crap he gave Republicans over this tactic last Summer....wow! Many here also bashed Republicans over this tactic...it'll be interesting in how they react to this.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/1...n_1145767.html
Payroll Tax Cut Extension: Obama Pushes Senate Democrats To Leverage $1 Trillion Spending Bill
by ANDREW TAYLOR 12/13/11

WASHINGTON — President Barack Obama's Democratic allies in the Senate are using a critical year-end spending bill as political leverage to try to force Republicans to negotiate bipartisan legislation to extend payroll tax cuts and unemployment benefits due to expire at the end of the year.

An administration official said the president called Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., over the weekend and urged him hold up the massive $1 trillion-plus spending package until an agreement is reached on the tax cuts and the unemployment benefits.

Republicans controlling the House have instead charted their own course on the payroll tax, rolling it together with a provision to speed permitting of the controversial proposed Keystone XL oil pipeline and other provisions favored by Republicans.

The White House is concerned that if the spending bill were to pass, House GOP leaders could orchestrate House passage of a GOP-tilting version of the payroll tax and jobless benefits legislation that would be unacceptable to Obama and Senate Democrats – but leave them in a political pickle – and then leave Washington.
The official spoke on the condition of anonymity in order to discuss internal administration strategy.

"They're wasting time catering to the tea party folks over there when they should be working with us on a bipartisan package that can pass both Houses," Reid said Tuesday.

The spending bill had been gaining bipartisan support in a combative Congress. But Reid's White House-backed maneuvering could jeopardize efforts to approve new spending before the current government funding runs out this weekend. That means lawmakers could be faced with the prospect of passing a stopgap measure to keep the federal government operating – or risk a partial government shutdown on Saturday.

Lawmakers had by Monday reached agreement on most issues on the $1 trillion spending bill, which cuts agency budgets but drops many policy provisions sought by GOP conservatives. It chips away at the Pentagon budget, foreign aid and environmental spending but boosts funding for veterans programs and modernizing the U.S. nuclear arsenal.

"I am hopeful that the Senate leaders will come to their senses, allow members to sign this report and move forward. There is no reason to hold this bill," said Republican House Speaker John Boehner of Ohio.

But Democrats said a claim by House Appropriations Committee Chairman Harold Rogers, R-Ky., that a pact had been sealed were incorrect, citing remaining disputes over policy towards Cuba, abortions in Washington, D.C., and Energy Department rules requiring new light bulbs to use 25 to 30 percent less energy beginning in 2012.

The measure generally pleases environmentalists, who succeeded in stopping industry forces from blocking new clean air rules and a new clean water regulation opposed by mountaintop removal mining interests. House Republicans were pressing hard against a White House veto threat over a provision that would roll back administration efforts to ease restrictions on Cuban immigrants on traveling to the island and sending cash back to family members there.

On spending, the measure implements this summer's hard-fought budget pact between the president and Republican leaders. That deal essentially freezes agency budgets, on average, at levels for the recently completed budget year that were approved back in April.

Drafted behind closed doors, the proposed bill would provide $115 billion for overseas security operations in Afghanistan and Iraq but give the Pentagon just a 1 percent boost in annual spending not directly related to the wars. The Environmental Protection Agency's budget would be cut by 3.5 percent. Foreign aid spending would drop and House lawmakers would absorb a 6 percent cut to their office budgets.

The bill also covers money for combating AIDS and famine in Africa, patrolling the U.S.-Mexico border, operating national parks and boosting veterans' health care.

Rogers said bargainers had struck an agreement that he hoped to unveil Tuesday. But other lawmakers insisted a handful of issues remain to be finalized.

A House vote is expected Thursday and the Senate is likely to follow in time to meet a midnight Friday deadline before a stopgap funding measure expires.

Negotiations on the omnibus had largely been smooth and businesslike, a sharp contrast with the ongoing partisan brawl over Obama's demand that Congress extend jobless benefits and a cut in the Social Security payroll tax. The House is slated to vote on a GOP-friendly version of the payroll tax cut Tuesday, and negotiations with the Democratic-controlled Senate on a compromise measure have yet to begin.

Rogers was pushing until the end to block clean water rules opposed by mining companies that blast the tops off mountains, to no avail. Top Appropriations Committee Democrat Norm Dicks of Washington, when asked if the mountaintop mining rider was still a concern, said, "It would be if it were in" the final legislation.
Dicks also predicted failure for several GOP attempts to block the EPA's authority to issue greenhouse gas regulations and new limits on hazardous emissions under the Clean Air Act.

House GOP leaders pressed riders to block the administration's 2009 policy lifting restrictions on travel and money transfers by Cuban-Americans to families remaining in Cuba, and some Democrats backing the administration policy seemed resigned to defeat.

On spending, the measure generally consists of relatively small adjustments to thousands of individual programs. Agencies like the Border Patrol and Immigration and Customs Enforcement would get a boost within the Homeland Security Department, while GOP defense hawks won additional funding to modernize the U.S. nuclear weapons arsenal. The troubled, over-budget, next-generation F-35 fighter plane program would be largely protected.

Democrats won a modest increase in funding for schools with large numbers of disadvantaged students.
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,040
136
How many jobs do you believe it will create?

According to this study using data from TransCanada.



A calculation of the direct jobs that might be created by KXL can begin with an
examination of the jobs on-site to build and inspect the pipeline. The project will create no more than 2,500-4,650 temporary direct construction jobs for two years, according to TransCanada’s own data supplied to the State Department.






 
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PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
201
101
Only in the mind of a liberal is 4000 new jobs a bad thing. The public must be made aware that this administration is blocking job creation and in doing so will be raising their taxes.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
126
And they're only temporary jobs, 1-2 years at most.

So what if they are temporary to build the project. Everything the govt has done in the last few years has been temporary at far higher costs. I didnt see you whining about it then. WHy whine about it now?
 
Nov 30, 2006
15,456
389
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Oh well definitely worth playing wiht 140 million taxes for 4000 jobs

Republicans - just when you think they wont...
$35k a job...that's a helluva lot better than porkulus. This also builds our infrastructure and has long-term benefit to this country by diversifying foreign dependence. The pipeline has been rerouted to address environmental concerns.

What exactly is there not to like about this project?
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
Ummm...they took the total hours worked, pretended they were for permanent, full time people for a year, then divided it out into how many people would be needed to meet these hours. This is at the bottom of Page 7.

Based on jobs information provided by TransCanada for the FEIS, KXL US on-site construction and inspection creates only 5,060-9,250 person-years of employment (1 person-year = 1 person working full time for 1 year). This is equivalent to 2,500-4,650 jobs per year over two years.
They play with the numbers to create the result they desire. The jobs are not full time, year long jobs so pretending they are is to lie.

Was this paper written by a student as a failed attempt to graduate? Reading through it, he repeats himself in the same paragraph. Here is an example (bolded in case it is too hard to spot):

As shown on the Budget Analysis Chart, KXL Canada costs $1.6 billion.


3 Therefore, approximately 23% of KXL’s $7 billion total cost is for the Canadian portion of the pipeline.
Within the US, the KXL project budget is $5.4 billion, not $7 billion.



4 Therefore approximately 23% of the $7 billion total cost of KXL is for the Canadian portion of the pipeline.


I have to say I am less impressed with this paper than the abortion called the IPCC. I will continue to read, maybe it redeams itself (unlike the IPCC).

EDIT: Continuing with the read, I find this:


TransCanada officially reported that during the construction of Keystone Phase 1 it employed a total of 2,580 workers in South Dakota


Which means that 2,580 people were employed so far. Did they subtract this from the rest of the project or is this part of their 2500-4650 jobs they claimed would becreated via their faulty logic earlier (see above for more details on the faulty logic).


EDIT: I stopped a few pages after that...at the point where they started claiming spills and deaths should be taken into account as if they already happened. What ifs take you to a dumb place, which ends with "what if aliens shoot lasers at the pipeline from space"...​

 
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Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
126
$35k a job...that's a helluva lot better than porkulus. This also builds our infrastructure and has long-term benefit to this country by diversifying foreign dependence. The pipeline has been rerouted to address environmental concerns.

What exactly is there not to like about this project?

It has oil running through the pipeline. Throw out logic, run for the hills!
 

woolfe9999

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2005
7,164
0
0
Nothing but political maneuvering by both parties coming up on an election year, and yet again we are getting the shaft.
 
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