Obamacare actually is fairly extreme

[micrometers]

Based on this:

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1111/68606.html

Basically, while HCR in MA had a Republican stamp on it, it was also highly influenced by a Democratic legislature in a genuine exercise of democracy and compromise between a Republican and Democrat. So while it is a compromise between differing parties, the flavors of the politics in MA are different than in other states. In particular, Democratic proposals contain far more "must-covers" than what Republicans want, things like in-vitro fertilization for instance, and it appears that Romney wanted fewer taxes on businesses.

 

[Craig234]

You know what else is extreme? Our nation spending trillions of dollars in the most expensive system in the world by far with sub-standard results for most of its customers.

All to profit a few very wealth owners in the industry which is exempt from our anti-trust laws and can lobby well enough to prevent real reform in the interest of the people.

 

[FuzzyBee]

I'll tell you what's extreme - the cost of drugs. Whatever happened to that Big Pharma reform?

 

[Anarchist420]

Based on this:

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1111/68606.html

Basically, while HCR in MA had a Republican stamp on it, it was also highly influenced by a Democratic legislature in a genuine exercise of democracy and compromise between a Republican and Democrat. So while it is a compromise between differing parties, the flavors of the politics in MA are different than in other states. In particular, Democratic proposals contain far more "must-covers" than what Republicans want, things like in-vitro fertilization for instance, and it appears that Romney wanted fewer taxes on businesses.

Romney raised taxes on businesses.

What's also extreme is medicare, legal tender, the income tax, and the IRC of 1954.

 

[Anarchist420]

I'll tell you what's extreme - the cost of drugs. Whatever happened to that Big Pharma reform?

You beat my ass to it.

 

[FuzzyBee]

You beat my ass to it.

Thanks?

 

[CrackRabbit]

I'll tell you what's extreme - the cost of drugs. Whatever happened to that Big Pharma reform?

It turned in to Medicare Part D.

 

[FuzzyBee]

It turned in to Medicare Part D.

Huh? Medicare Part D dates back to '06. Our current President was going to reform Big Pharma.

 

[IGBT]

employers will cull their payroll to break even on payroll overhead. Your obama is a purveyor of predatory big Gov. Isn't this what you wanted??

 

[MagickMan]

I'll tell you what's extreme - the cost of drugs. Whatever happened to that Big Pharma reform?

I was wondering about that, how's Obama doing with that whole thing?

 

[Ausm]

It turned in to Medicare Part D.

LOL That was a Republican controlled Congress's sloppy wet kiss to Big pharma courtesy of the American Taxpayer.

 

[PokerGuy]

You know what else is extreme? Our nation spending trillions of dollars in the most expensive system in the world by far with sub-standard results for most of its customers.

So much fail in just a couple of sentences. obummercare does NOTHING to reduce the costs, in fact, even the CBO agrees that the costs will actually go up. Sub-standard results for "most" is bull. Most people have good insurance and get the best healthcare in the world.

 

[Ninjahedge]

This is what happens when a leader "compromises" and tries to make "everyone" happy.


Everyone = $$


Sad part is, I see NOBODY in the race so far that would do less.....

 

[Anarchist420]

I was wondering about that, how's Obama doing with that whole thing?

Well, he reneged on his 08 campaign promise (the one where he said that he'd lift the ban on importation of drugs and reduce patents to 7 years) when he cut a deal with Big Pharma to slow the growth in Part D spending 2%.

 

[Rainsford]

So much fail in just a couple of sentences. obummercare does NOTHING to reduce the costs, in fact, even the CBO agrees that the costs will actually go up. Sub-standard results for "most" is bull. Most people have good insurance and get the best healthcare in the world.

Indeed...and the government should try to help those who DON'T have insurance and can barely get care at all. And for all the things I think could be improved about Obamacare, at least that's an attempt to fix the problem. My issue with Republicans attacking Obama's health care ideas isn't that I think his ideas are perfect, it's that Republicans don't propose any alternative solutions.

Even something that's more of a compromise would be nice, in the spirit of this thread. But mostly what I see is people who want to repeal Obamacare and replace it with nothing.

 

[PokerGuy]

And for all the things I think could be improved about Obamacare, at least that's an attempt to fix the problem.

No, it's a handout to various cronies and lobbies.

My issue with Republicans attacking Obama's health care ideas isn't that I think his ideas are perfect, it's that Republicans don't propose any alternative solutions.

Doing nothing is better than doing something bad. The "something had to be done!" logic is foolish, it only makes sense to do something if it improves things. obummercare clearly will not.

But mostly what I see is people who want to repeal Obamacare and replace it with nothing.

If obummercare is a step in the wrong direction, then simply repealing it and taking a step back to a place that admittedly left a lot do be desired is still the correct course of action. Offering "nothing" is still better than offering something worse.

 

[Ninjahedge]

Enough with the euphemisms. They are part of the problem, vilifying an entire legislation without dealing with the points that need to be addressed.

What OC was was a decent plan that did not get spearheaded. It got cut to pieces and stripped of its useful bone and muscle and all we were left with was a pile of useless fat and genitals.

But, of course, it is all Obama's fault since he was the one that had to vote for it to become law.... right?

 

[PokerGuy]

But, of course, it is all Obama's fault since he was the one that had to vote for it to become law.... right?

You can certainly argue about who's at fault that it got mangled to become such terrible legislation, but since it did, it should not have been passed or signed by the president. He pushed it and ultimately bears responsibility for the failure.

 

[Ryan711]

I'll tell you what's extreme - the cost of drugs. Whatever happened to that Big Pharma reform?

It costs A LOT of money to develop drugs, and 9 out of 10 never make it to market. We effectively subsidized those other countries' drug costs by paying high prices. Merck only made around 800 million last year, and while nothing to scoff at, it's not much for a company with almost 100k employees. Pfizer did much better at 8 billion profit, but again they have over 100k employees, and if you start to put caps on how much you think they should make, they lose incentive to create new drugs.

If you want lower prices, other countries should pay more to equalize our costs or if you want to be crazy, have the govt subsidize all drug R&D for drugs that don't make it to market and then the ones that do, negotiate a lower price and split the profit.

 

[Jhhnn]

If obummercare is a step in the wrong direction, then simply repealing it and taking a step back to a place that admittedly left a lot do be desired is still the correct course of action. Offering "nothing" is still better than offering something worse.

That's easy to say when you offer no facts, merely opinion, and also offer nothing in terms of addressing the real problems that exist.

 

[sandorski]

. We effectively subsidized those other countries' drug costs by paying high prices. .

No you don't. Quit falling for the BS crafted to make you accept those Prices and feel Smug about it at the same time.

 

[Xellos2099]

I think at this point we need to think living a few extra month or years worth so much money. Before anyone say there is no price on live.... there IS a price for anything.

 

[blankslate]

So you think that the Health Care plan is extreme....

Then that must mean that the Republicans of 1993 were pretty extreme themselves based on the fact that their counter-proposal to "Hilarycare" bears more resemblance to "Obamacare" than it does to Jim Boehner's proposal...

http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/graphics/2010/022310-bill-comparison.aspx

 

[Ausm]

So you think that the Health Care plan is extreme....

Then that must mean that the Republicans of 1993 were pretty extreme themselves based on the fact that their counter-proposal to "Hilarycare" bears more resemblance to "Obamacare" than it does to Jim Boehner's proposal...

http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/graphics/2010/022310-bill-comparison.aspx

Republicans suffer from short term memory loss.