Obamacare, are you too stupid to get it?

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manimal

Lifer
Mar 30, 2007
13,559
8
0
Why didn't you/she have proper car insurance? If it was related to the accident your car insurance pays for that.

And WHY THE HELL did you let group coverage lapse?

We had very good insurance. They went after the settlement they were so good...



We didnt have group coverage at the time since we were essentially living in different cities for a few years. I was traveling 11 months of the year and she was working at a big law firm in NYC. She left the firm to join me and was on cobra for a year. Thats when she had the accident. You would be surprised how fast limits can be reached.....



Whatever happened with repeal and replace?

where is that replace they ballyhooed?
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
We had very good insurance. They went after the settlement they were so good...



We didnt have group coverage at the time since we were essentially living in different cities for a few years. I was traveling 11 months of the year and she was working at a big law firm in NYC. She left the firm to join me and was on cobra for a year. Thats when she had the accident. You would be surprised how fast limits can be reached.....



Whatever happened with repeal and replace?

where is that replace they ballyhooed?

That could indeed get complicated, but you understand COBRA just lets her continue in her previous employers group coverage. By letting group coverage lapse that kicked in all sorts of things based on pre-obamacare law which is why you NEVER LET GROUP COVERAGE LAPSE.

I'm sorry for your predicament, but current laws should have you and yours covered, provided you were married. You never, ever, ever ever let your health insurance lapse. See the difference there? One way the person is responsible and failure to take care of yourself is met with stiff penalties such as you don't get to just jump back into group coverage, the obamacare way forces by rule of law and pushes any penalties onto responsible citizens via increased premiums.

This is the difference between America, land of personal opportunity, liberty and responsibility and the land of Obama.
 

chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,016
36
86
Actually my wife who was between jobs on cobra coverage had a car accident. She exhausted her coverage since she was freelancing at the time and we had over 130K in medical bills above and beyond what her insurance payed. The person that hit her had shit coverage as well and that went fast...She was uninsurable on the open market and was turned down by every single carrier in the state of Indiana. I was forced to get a job with benefits since I was a freelance opera singer at the time and had to buy insurance on the open market..

Guess what happens when we finally get coverage a year later from my new job? Yup all treatment for her prexisting condition we had to pay out of pocket......

Is the health care bill perfect? Not even close....removing it would be worse....how about we fix it together?

Half of me says this is why you get a job being something other than an opera singer, and sing the opera as a side thing.

The other have of me says, this is why we need national healthcare.

The entirety of me though knows that our Federal government is incapable of properly running healthcare on that scale with acceptable costs and service. I really don't know what the happy medium is, I agree it needs to be fixed, but handing over control - and hence $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ - to the Fed's really strikes me as a bad idea at this point in time.

Chuck
 

manimal

Lifer
Mar 30, 2007
13,559
8
0
Half of me says this is why you get a job being something other than an opera singer, and sing the opera as a side thing.

The other have of me says, this is why we need national healthcare.

The entirety of me though knows that our Federal government is incapable of properly running healthcare on that scale with acceptable costs and service. I really don't know what the happy medium is, I agree it needs to be fixed, but handing over control - and hence $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ - to the Fed's really strikes me as a bad idea at this point in time.

Chuck

I agree that the issue is not a simple one. I do not regret my time as an opera singer. I provided for my family and lived my dream for more than a decade. The plight of most musicians is very similar to a very small business as we have seen by the huge increases in premiums if you purchase in the open market and not via employer....


I did have to end up changing up my career to take care of my family. The funny thing is I was making about the same as I make now from my day job as I did a a performer....



Ask most of your friends if career and job decisions hinge more on insurance than fulfillment/happiness...
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
0
So you and the corporations keep telling us. Luckily We the People (you know, the ones without banjos and can read) don't buy into chicken little fearmongering and end times wingnuttery. You guys are gonna be drug into the 21st century kicking and screaming. Elections have consequences, and the president won in a huge landslide. qq moar

Crazy people should be ignored, when You the wingnuts wish to join the adults in national debate again feel free.

Until then do not let me interupt your ooga booga! the black man! session, as you were.
pro-tip: both corporations and governments consist of people.

You guys are raging about the same thing and then raging at each other because your to stupid to realize it. People are the problem, no amount of corporations or government are going to fix our people problem.
 

chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,016
36
86
Well, that's in part why I say, we need national healthcare. It's clear there is -99% loyalty from Big Business to American workers, all for upper crust bragging rights and Wall Street. More and more American's are going to not be able to afford HC.

Personally, here's what I'd like to see first:

1.) Balance budget with revenue - if they have to raise taxes, raise on everyone but in tiers. Price into this balanced budget #2 below.

2.) Once #1 is accomplished, lock down border tight with Military: That's why we have a Federal government and why we have a F'ing Military, to defend us. We're being invaded: Repel the invasion, with deadly force if necessary; and Yes, that means chopping up people (men, women, kids) with .50 cal rounds if need be. It is going to take deadly force - at least at first - to quell the invasion.

3.) All illegals in the US while #2 is being accomplished and running, and for say x months after y date (these need to be not long timeframes, no 'years' here, months), need to turn themselves in. They will be given temporary green card, will be immunized, will go through the immigration process to become a legal citizen. Any illegal wishing to go back to where they came from gets free trip immediately (immediately in no greater than 4 weeks, gives them time to prepare).

4.) All illegals found in the US after y date above will be immediately deported to the country they came from. If they will not provide a country, they will be shipped to Africa as payback for our slavery day. No delay for kids. No delay for sick whatever. Immediate departure on next ship to Africa.

5.) With a recent census having been done, and 1 - 4 having been accomplished, Congress will have all the data they need to lock themselves down - not go to dinners, not go to events, not get head from their interns, not meet with special interest groups, etc. - and get a fully funded balanced budget national healthcare plan drawn up for public review. There is no other business Congress will entertain, unless it is a matter of national security, until they have provided the complete first draft of this plan; any member of Congress found conducting business other than the HC plan, or national security, will be immediately impeached from the position and their state will simply lose their vote. This plan will be agreed upon by both sides as passable before being presented to the public.

6.) Congress after providing this first draft plan to the public, will take a 1 month break.

7.) Congress after their one month break, will take a 4 month period to conduct other business. This gives the Media time to stop relentlessly spinning the newly released HC draft, and time for the public to review it and provide feedback to their representatives.

8.) Congress will re-convene their lockdown, same rules as before, and produce another draft to the public.

9-11.) Same as 6 - 8.

12.) When Congress feels they have a quality plan, they will put it up for an official public vote. Since Congress does not break from their lockdown session without having agreement that they can vote for the plan, this vote will pass. No ammendments or revisions to the plan are allowed until the POTUS votes on it, and it is either signed into law, or, returned to Congress.

13.) Congress may resume normal activity.

14.) The POTUS will review the final Congressionally approved plan, and cast a vote. If it is approved, it will be signed into law immediately. If it is rejected, Congress has 2 weeks to close up normal business, they go back into lockdown, and the Executive sends their Rep's - who speak for the POTUS - and/or the POTUS himself/herself, who also are in lockdown, until the issues are worked out. If this is done, Congress will re-vote on the amended bill. That ammended bill will go back to the POTUS, who will sign it, or, the process starts all over again.

15.) We finally have a balanced budget, border locked down, no illegals, and a national HC plan. Now we can use the same system to cut 10% from the Federal budget each year, and use that 10% to pay off the National Debt.

16.) Hell freezes over...or more likely, it freezes over after step #1 above.

Chuck
 

rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
19,441
86
91
even though big business is against it im surprised there isnt massive support for obamacare. it gives insurance to a lot of people that dont/wont have it. also it tries to protect people from bankruptcy and loss of insurance as a result of a major illness. have you ever known someone who got a major illness? insurance companies immediately drop that persons coverage

Because money does not just drop to the ground from trees... that is why. The government plan to take over the insurance industry does nothing to lower health care costs in this country. It has not worked for the states like Massachusetts and Tennessee that tried it, and it won't work for the Federal government.
 

IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
33,655
687
126
have you ever known someone who got a major illness? insurance companies immediately drop that persons coverage

Is cancer a major illness? Because my dad went through years and years of cancer treatment and was never dropped from his insurance.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,396
50,385
136
Is cancer a major illness? Because my dad went through years and years of cancer treatment and was never dropped from his insurance.

They don't rescind all policies that involve expensive treatment, what they DO do however is target people with expensive illnesses and search for ways to cancel their policies that may or may not have anything to do with their illness. (ie: not providing work history, etc.)

People I know from other countries are just dumbfounded when I tell them about America's 'best in the world' health care system. They honestly think I'm joking when I tell them how much things here cost, how people are bankrupted by illness, how we spend so much more without better results, etc. Then they ask me how in the hell America wouldn't have changed our system to a more sensible policy like theirs a long time ago; I should point them to places like this I guess.
 

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,459
3,577
126
Then they ask me how in the hell America wouldn't have changed our system to a more sensible policy like theirs a long time ago; I should point them to places like this I guess.

It has little to do with AT P&N and a lot to do with poorly created legislation by the government and the meddling by numerous big corporations and special interest groups. This national health care bill does little to fix the underlying cause of the issues
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,396
50,385
136
It has little to do with AT P&N and a lot to do with poorly created legislation by the government and the meddling by numerous big corporations and special interest groups. This national health care bill does little to fix the underlying cause of the issues

It has a great deal to do with extremely vocal, highly ideological minorities like those on ATPN. The debate over the health care bill was not 'we believe that this bill is not effectively addressing the underlying cause of increasing health insurance costs', it was 'THIS BILL DESTROYS AMERICA OMIGOD COMMUNISM DEATH PANELS'.
 

Fandango21

Junior Member
Feb 8, 2011
23
0
0
I totally agree with you eskimospy. Its hard to explain to people outside of our situation who look at us like morons for these issues. I can't blame them at all. The idea behind the whole Health Care reform was to rip it out of the hands of big business who are only in it for the money. If you like the current situation then you like the idea of people making profit from your health. How do you make profit? Cut costs. How do you cut cost? Drop people's coverage. To make money you have to take in more than you put out and people act like businesses are morally good and do the right thing. It's evident that any business only cares about the bottom line, hence I have no idea why people think their health should be in the hands of greedy people. Call it communism or socialism or just plain stupid, but you can't deny it. I don't even understand how this is an issue and why we fight about it.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
I totally agree with you eskimospy. Its hard to explain to people outside of our situation who look at us like morons for these issues. I can't blame them at all. The idea behind the whole Health Care reform was to rip it out of the hands of big business who are only in it for the money. If you like the current situation then you like the idea of people making profit from your health. How do you make profit? Cut costs. How do you cut cost? Drop people's coverage. To make money you have to take in more than you put out and people act like businesses are morally good and do the right thing. It's evident that any business only cares about the bottom line, hence I have no idea why people think their health should be in the hands of greedy people. Call it communism or socialism or just plain stupid, but you can't deny it. I don't even understand how this is an issue and why we fight about it.

Because this is AMERICA. Here in AMERICA one is free to start a business and make a better life for yourself even if that business is insurance. Going against this is going against everything America stands for and why this president and this law are so hated.
 
Jun 27, 2005
19,216
1
61
They don't rescind all policies that involve expensive treatment, what they DO do however is target people with expensive illnesses and search for ways to cancel their policies that may or may not have anything to do with their illness. (ie: not providing work history, etc.)

People I know from other countries are just dumbfounded when I tell them about America's 'best in the world' health care system. They honestly think I'm joking when I tell them how much things here cost, how people are bankrupted by illness, how we spend so much more without better results, etc. Then they ask me how in the hell America wouldn't have changed our system to a more sensible policy like theirs a long time ago; I should point them to places like this I guess.

Well based on your completely unbiased description of every worst case doom and gloom scenario it's little wonder they think the system is broken.

Meanwhile, back in the real world, the health care system here works just fine for me and everyone else I know.
 

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,459
3,577
126
It has a great deal to do with extremely vocal, highly ideological minorities like those on ATPN. The debate over the health care bill was not 'we believe that this bill is not effectively addressing the underlying cause of increasing health insurance costs', it was 'THIS BILL DESTROYS AMERICA OMIGOD COMMUNISM DEATH PANELS'.

If those highly ideological minorites you are referring to have great sums of money/influence they exert on policy making then I agree with you (and would consider them special interest groups). Most forums like ATPN do not command the resources necessary to affect real change
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,396
50,385
136
Well based on your completely unbiased description of every worst case doom and gloom scenario it's little wonder they think the system is broken.

Meanwhile, back in the real world, the health care system here works just fine for me and everyone else I know.

Well unfortunately for you in 'reality, reality', you know... the kind that's based on actual statistics of OECD countries, and comparative GDP expenditures as related to health care outcomes, our system doesn't work just fine. This is probably why there is near universal agreement that our system needs to be fixed, only a disagreement on how.

But hey, it works for you and the people you know, that's a really good counter argument and is clearly an accurate representation of reality. In fact, you should go publish a study that talks about how your friend went to the hospital for a broken finger the other day and it all worked out ok. I'll be looking for it in Lancet.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,396
50,385
136
If those highly ideological minorites you are referring to have great sums of money/influence they exert on policy making then I agree with you (and would consider them special interest groups). Most forums like ATPN do not command the resources necessary to affect real change

Oh, I didn't mean that ATPN would drive change, just that this forum is a good example of the kinds of thinking that dominate the debate. I mean look at the responses so far, we have 'OBAMACARE HATES AMERICA' from the resident schizophrenic, Spidey, and Whozyerdaddy with: 'it works great for my friends!'.

That's pretty much the two sides of health care reform opposition right there. They are both completely vacuous arguments, but ones that are endlessly repeated.
 

Patranus

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2007
9,280
0
0
The only thing I need to know about the law is the unconstitutional individual mandate.
It doesn't matter if I "get" the rest of it or not.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,041
29,960
146
Take a look inside your passport, it's on the side opposite your picture.

Shens. We The People do not carry passports because there is only one country in this world.

Everywhere else is inhabited by dragons.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,041
29,960
146
The only thing I need to know about the law is the unconstitutional individual mandate.
It doesn't matter if I "get" the rest of it or not.

And you can thank the republicans for the unconstitutional part.
 

IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
33,655
687
126
It has a great deal to do with extremely vocal, highly ideological minorities like those on ATPN. The debate over the health care bill was not 'we believe that this bill is not effectively addressing the underlying cause of increasing health insurance costs', it was 'THIS BILL DESTROYS AMERICA OMIGOD COMMUNISM DEATH PANELS'.

Bullshit. SEVERAL of us said that it doesn't effectively address increasing health care costs.
 

IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
33,655
687
126
I don't even understand how this is an issue and why we fight about it.

<sigh>

Ignoring the reality of increasing health care costs for a moment, you guys can tout the European health care systems all you want. You can use Canada as an example. You can use Cuba as an example. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter because guess what? The US is not a European nation. It is not Canada, nor is it Cuba. We're governed (at least in theory) by the framework established by the US Constitution. If you want a national health care system, PUT IT IN A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT. Twisting the words of the Constitution to support an agenda is bullshit and both parties are guilty of it to the max.

"But...but...we have the right to tax! Yeah, that's it! We can have a national healthcare system because the Constitution gives us the ability to levy a tax and after all, it is just another tax! What? That isn't good enough? Well, uh, there's......GENERAL WELFARE! Yeah, that's the ticket."
 

IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
33,655
687
126
Well based on your completely unbiased description of every worst case doom and gloom scenario it's little wonder they think the system is broken.

Meanwhile, back in the real world, the health care system here works just fine for me and everyone else I know.

Me too. As I mentioned, my dad went through several years of cancer treatment at the freaking Mayo Clinic and his insurance didn't drop him. My brother required tens of thousands of dollars worth of medication every year when he was growing up and guess what? He was not dropped by the insurance company. As a matter-of-fact, I personally don't know of anyone who has been dropped from their health insurance plan.
 
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