I don't get a subsidy and I don't think $1400/month is affordable. For the guy making just over the line, $80K, it's definitely not affordable.
I don't get a subsidy and I don't think $1400/month is affordable. For the guy making just over the line, $80K, it's definitely not affordable.Why are people surprised that they have to pay a lot for health care in a country where health care is 17% GDP as opposed to 10% of GDP in single payer countries?
If you look at COBRA rates for employer provided private group plans, they are similar in cost.
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=cobra rates 2016
At least with Obamacare, you can get a subsidy if you can't afford them.
If you want to pay less, then expand Medicare to everyone and let the government negotiate rates like other countries do. Otherwise, suck it up.
There is almost certainly nothing whatsoever about Obamacare that lowers HumblePie's costs and numerous things that are guaranteed to raise them. Since HumblePie stated he wasn't eligible for subsidies it would cost the same or less, because he (A) wouldn't have been paying the subsidies to cap healthcare premia for the old at 3x that of the young when otherwise the ratio would be far more, (B) could have elected for a low coverage/high deductible plan that's not allowed to exist anymore under Obamacare, (C) could have selected one that didn't cover services he might not use (like pediatric dental care), (D) wouldn't need to pay the subsidy to allow others to cover "pre-existing conditions" when it's an actuarial certainty the policy would have never been sold as it's guaranteed to lose money, and (E) other factors that I could come up with if I cared to spend more time researching.
Again, if you want to rejoice because someone like bshole is getting the money someone like HumblePie would have otherwise had be my guest, but realize that while bshole enjoys a few extra bucks it's because he basically took the lunch money out of his grandkids' pockets.
There is almost certainly nothing whatsoever about Obamacare that lowers HumblePie's costs and numerous things that are guaranteed to raise them. Since HumblePie stated he wasn't eligible for subsidies it would cost the same or less, because he (A) wouldn't have been paying the subsidies to cap healthcare premia for the old at 3x that of the young when otherwise the ratio would be far more, (B) could have elected for a low coverage/high deductible plan that's not allowed to exist anymore under Obamacare, (C) could have selected one that didn't cover services he might not use (like pediatric dental care), (D) wouldn't need to pay the subsidy to allow others to cover "pre-existing conditions" when it's an actuarial certainty the policy would have never been sold as it's guaranteed to lose money, and (E) other factors that I could come up with if I cared to spend more time researching.
Again, if you want to rejoice because someone like bshole is getting the money someone like HumblePie would have otherwise had be my guest, but realize that while bshole enjoys a few extra bucks it's because he basically took the lunch money out of his grandkids' pockets.
Non-Obamacare COBRA plans are in same price range. That's what health care costs without subsidies. But I share your concern that others are getting subsidized health care but not everyone. Also your concern about overall cost of health care. Which is why we need to have a universal single payer plan which will negotiate prices down, which is what happens in other countries.I don't get a subsidy and I don't think $1400/month is affordable. For the guy making just over the line, $80K, it's definitely not affordable.
This identical argument could be made for virtually any government program.
Wrong, that argument can't be made. There are lots of government programs that benefit everyone more or less equally instead of its express purpose being to screw over one group of people to benefit a different group.
$400.00 a week for a family, getting medical, dental and vision is pretty god damn good.
And, uh, without the ACA, there would be no subsidies, and the cost would be the same, if not more.
Perhaps people should google what insurance is, and isn't.
You should really get a colonoscopy since you are full of sh!t.When Obamacare first took effect, our deductible was $2,700. Now it's $6,000. Coupled with premiums, we are now out of pocket between $10k and $12k before insurance pays anything. Except mental health counseling and birth control, neither of which we need. Consequently I've drastically cut back on doctor visits. They want twice a year, I'll go for one. They want colonoscopies every three years, I'll go every seven. Luckily we have neither rent nor house payments nor car payments, otherwise things would be tight.
Preventive care benefits for adults
All Marketplace health plans and many other plans must cover the following list of preventive services without charging you a copayment or coinsurance. This is true even if you haven’t met your yearly deductible.
IMPORTANTThese services are free only when delivered by a doctor or other provider in your plan’s network.
- Abdominal aortic aneurysm one-time screening for men of specified ages who have ever smoked
- Alcohol misuse screening and counseling
- Aspirin use to prevent cardiovascular disease for men and women of certain ages
- Blood pressure screening
- Cholesterol screening for adults of certain ages or at higher risk
- Colorectal cancer screening for adults over 50
- Depression screening
- Diabetes (Type 2) screening for adults with high blood pressure
- Diet counseling for adults at higher risk for chronic disease
- Hepatitis B screening for people at high risk, including people from countries with 2% or more Hepatitis B prevalence, and U.S.-born people not vaccinated as infants and with at least one parent born in a region with 8% or more Hepatitis B prevalence.
- Hepatitis C screening for adults at increased risk, and one time for everyone born 1945 – 1965
- HIV screening for everyone ages 15 to 65, and other ages at increased risk
- Immunization vaccines for adults — doses, recommended ages, and recommended populations vary:
- Lung cancer screening for adults 55 - 80 at high risk for lung cancer because they’re heavy smokers or have quit in the past 15 years
- Obesity screening and counseling
- Sexually transmitted infection (STI) prevention counseling for adults at higher risk
- Syphilis screening for adults at higher risk
- Tobacco Use screening for all adults and cessation interventions for tobacco user
I took at look at the plans my wife and I would be eligible for on healthcare.gov. Super expensive. We don't qualify for any savings or tax credits I guess.
Lowest premium plan is $545.10/mo with a $13,600 deductible (OOP max of $13,600).
Highest premium plan is $1083.23/mo with a $3,000 deductible(OOP max of $14,300).
Aetna HRA through my employer would be $445.59/mo with a $3,000 deductible. I believe the company contributes $1,100 to the HRA but I am not sure since we don't have the insurance. Max OOP is $5,250.
Cigna HRA through my wife's employer would be $234/mo (both employee and spouse non-smokers with health screenings) with a $2,500 deductible. Company contributes $1,000 to the HRA. Max OOP is $8,000.
Cigna HDHP w/HSA through my wife's employer would be $80.17/mo (same tobacco-free/health screen requirement) with a $4,000 deductible. Company contributes $1,000 to the HSA. Max OOP is also $8,000. We chose this plan of course.
We really do need some sort of universal coverage because those marketplace plans are terribly expensive for most people.
Is that the COBRA rate (total cost with employer contribution) though? You can find out what the COBRA rate is from your HR. That's what you would pay for same plan if you left the company and it was no longer subsidized.
Those rates are generally comparable to exchange plans. For example: benefits.adobe.com/document/674
When Obamacare first took effect, our deductible was $2,700. Now it's $6,000. Coupled with premiums, we are now out of pocket between $10k and $12k before insurance pays anything. Except mental health counseling and birth control, neither of which we need. Consequently I've drastically cut back on doctor visits. They want twice a year, I'll go for one. They want colonoscopies every three years, I'll go every seven. Luckily we have neither rent nor house payments nor car payments, otherwise things would be tight.
There is almost certainly nothing whatsoever about Obamacare that lowers HumblePie's costs and numerous things that are guaranteed to raise them. Since HumblePie stated he wasn't eligible for subsidies it would cost the same or less, because he (A) wouldn't have been paying the subsidies to cap healthcare premia for the old at 3x that of the young when otherwise the ratio would be far more, (B) could have elected for a low coverage/high deductible plan that's not allowed to exist anymore under Obamacare, (C) could have selected one that didn't cover services he might not use (like pediatric dental care), (D) wouldn't need to pay the subsidy to allow others to cover "pre-existing conditions" when it's an actuarial certainty the policy would have never been sold as it's guaranteed to lose money, and (E) other factors that I could come up with if I cared to spend more time researching.
Again, if you want to rejoice because someone like bshole is getting the money someone like HumblePie would have otherwise had be my guest, but realize that while bshole enjoys a few extra bucks it's because he basically took the lunch money out of his grandkids' pockets.
Is that the COBRA rate (total cost with employer contribution) though? You can find out what the COBRA rate is from your HR. That's what you would pay for same plan if you left the company and it was no longer subsidized.
Those rates are generally comparable to exchange plans. For example: benefits.adobe.com/document/674
Are you some kind of wealthy person because the way you think doesn't really strike me as such? For most of the "middle class" with their ups and downs the situation where they lose money on the up to cover themselves on downs is a preferential solution. If you ponder it for a great deal longer it might even come to you that's the popular premise behind insurance.
I'm pretty sure you have no clue what the actual premise of insurance is. It isn't what we've turned it into which is a mandatory 5 figure prepaid medical expense account. Hell, Obamacare has moved 'health insurance" further away from actual insurance than even it was before since the law basically prohibits underwriting and pricing premiums according to actual projected claims (see older person 3x limit on premiums versus younger folks).
Let's consider these things you're pretty sure about. The basic premise of insurance is amortizing risk to a larger pool. Conceptually this is not so different than the middle class paying for a social safety net & such, though I suppose it involves abstract concepts which require some thinking to figure out. In the future I suggest trying that out before being pretty sure of things.
You shouldn't use terms you don't understand like "amortizing" since you use them incorrectly. "Health insurance" as it's currently constructed isn't insurance because it fails the basic distinguising characteristics of insurance. Namely allowing the participants to pay a slight fee to lock in the certainty of premiums that mirror the expected median share of liability in a larger risk pool in order to protect against the possibility of their specific actual risk being significantly more than the median AND both the cost of the premia and the fees you're paying to obtain the insurance in the first place. You're not buying "insurance" when you're:
(1) Not conducting any underwriting, because there is no possible means of determining what the expected median risk is,
(2) Paying premia to cover events that have a 100% possibility of happening (like annual checkups, birth control) because your risk IS the median risk, there is no risk shifting going on thus it's not insurance by definition. It's exactly what I said it was, a prepaid medical expense account.
(3) Paying significantly more in premia than the expected median liability you expect to incur because that excess is specifically intended to pay benefits on behalf of someone else other than you.
And yes, Obamacare isn't much different than the social safety net, because that's not insurance either!
Reciting some incredibly pedantic article you managed to read once doesn't exactly help illustrate that you can understand basic concepts.
You are an idiot who should stay out of conversations on topics you don't understand. Like all of them.