Holy f you got owned by glenn. Your pathetic attempt to save face in the above comment is hilarious at best.
Holy f you got owned by glenn. Your pathetic attempt to save face in the above comment is hilarious at best.Reciting some incredibly pedantic article you managed to read once doesn't exactly help illustrate that you can understand basic concepts.
Not bad, and I agree on the prepaid medical expense account. There is no risk since they will make money off the penalty anyway. It's a fucking scam, just like obama promising to save the american people $2500. Someone cue up that clip that he barked around 500+ times since 2008.You shouldn't use terms you don't understand like "amortizing" since you use them incorrectly. "Health insurance" as it's currently constructed isn't insurance because it fails the basic distinguising characteristics of insurance. Namely allowing the participants to pay a slight fee to lock in the certainty of premiums that mirror the expected median share of liability in a larger risk pool in order to protect against the possibility of their specific actual risk being significantly more than the median AND both the cost of the premia and the fees you're paying to obtain the insurance in the first place. You're not buying "insurance" when you're:
(1) Not conducting any underwriting, because there is no possible means of determining what the expected median risk is,
(2) Paying premia to cover events that have a 100% possibility of happening (like annual checkups, birth control) because your risk IS the median risk, there is no risk shifting going on thus it's not insurance by definition. It's exactly what I said it was, a prepaid medical expense account.
(3) Paying significantly more in premia than the expected median liability you expect to incur because that excess is specifically intended to pay benefits on behalf of someone else other than you.
And yes, Obamacare isn't much different than the social safety net, because that's not insurance either!
Holy f you got owned by glenn. Your pathetic attempt to save face in the above comment is hilarious at best.
www.healthcare.gov
48 year old single male / zip 28358. My comparable UHC "Silver Plan" proposed by BC/BS for an individual - No dental, ... $5K deductible for $800/month. What is so affordable about that? ...and all you people can say is it's my fault for how my local elections went. Are you fucking retarded??? I guess I should have voted against all of my other conservative ideologies just so I wouldn't get screwed by the ACA, per your train of thought.
Actually neither you nor he has any clue what insurance actually means
So bshole, look carefully at this post and realize this is the kind of person who is funding your care. An actual, real life person and not an abstraction. One who likely can't save money for his kid's education, move to a safer neighborhood, buy a more suitable car for his family, or save for his own retirement. Because thousands of his money is going to you and those like you. And instead of falling down on your knees in thanks you complain about his "greed."
Solid summary of how the middle class is getting fucked. It's almost better to just make less if you're going the obamacare route. Then again, i'm glad I don't have to go the obamacare route. Sorry man.Also love to go over this with people. Using rough figures, this is basically a fun exercise to see how bad certain people at certain earning points can be screwed over.
Take right now average family of 4 making a combined income of $100,000 a year. Seems like the good life right?
Tax bracket is 25% so basically $25,000 are gone to federal taxes. There are a few ways to lower this burden, like dependent credits and such. Basically drops that burden to around $15,000 at the lowest if you are lucky. Typically around $20,000. So out of $100,000 you have only $80,000 to work with. But a decent silver plan with a couple of claims is going to run the average household about $50,000 in health costs. That is NON subsidized, but $100,000 is over 400% of the FPL. Leaving said family with $30,000 now for everything else. This is for an average silver plan with a 70%/30% split with a 3,000-5,000 deductible and coverage for medical, dental, and vision. Prices around here are about $2,000 to $2,500 for silver plans like that per month.
Throw in child care costs like day care, which exceed state college tuition costs practically everywhere, and that's about $20,000 on average. So now down to $10,000 a year to cover food, transportation, rest/mortgage, electricity, water, garbage collection, and other bill. Basically stretching thing that $10,000 left to a family. Maybe $15,000 if you were good at getting more taxes back from the federal level for some reason. I usually get $10K back, but that is because I am allowed to count the $6K I spend on property taxes here every year.
But had that same family been making $25,000 less per year, the subsidies would kick in pretty good. The tax bracket drops from 25% to 15%. Making a tax burden down to $11,250. Much of which can be claimed back through various deductions like above. Getting around $8K back means basically having $72,000 left over, which is pretty damn close to what the average family after taxes at $100,000 has left over. Difference is now i both families are using .gov healthcare plans, the second family gets only out of pocket healthcosts per year of a max of 8.21% of their income level because they are at 300% of the FPL. Chances are they are eligible for medicaid in their state that basically takes up the rest of the cost making family two's out of pocket medical expenses for a year typically about $6,000. A far sight lower than $50,000 that would have been incurred had they made $25,000 more per year.
Leaving family of 4 making $75,000 far wealthier at the end of the year than family of 4 making $100,000 per year. Not exactly what I call fair at all.
Solid summary of how the middle class is getting fucked. It's almost better to just make less if you're going the obamacare route. Then again, i'm glad I don't have to go the obamacare route. Sorry man.
Also love to go over this with people. Using rough figures, this is basically a fun exercise to see how bad certain people at certain earning points can be screwed over.
Take right now average family of 4 making a combined income of $100,000 a year. Seems like the good life right?
Tax bracket is 25% so basically $25,000 are gone to federal taxes.
Solid summary of how the middle class is getting fucked. It's almost better to just make less if you're going the obamacare route. Then again, i'm glad I don't have to go the obamacare route. Sorry man.
Yah, personally I would rather have a flat percentage taken out of my pay for healthcare that goes to a single payer system and I'm done with paying anything more. Adjust the percentage based on cost of living figures for a given person's area and be done with it. Leave's both families in the above scenario with proper medical care for their families and doesn't screw one family over.
Also love to go over this with people. Using rough figures, this is basically a fun exercise to see how bad certain people at certain earning points can be screwed over.
Take right now average family of 4 making a combined income of $100,000 a year. Seems like the good life right?
Tax bracket is 25% so basically $25,000 are gone to federal taxes. There are a few ways to lower this burden, like dependent credits and such. Basically drops that burden to around $15,000 at the lowest if you are lucky. Typically around $20,000. So out of $100,000 you have only $80,000 to work with. But a decent silver plan with a couple of claims is going to run the average household about $50,000 in health costs. That is NON subsidized, but $100,000 is over 400% of the FPL. Leaving said family with $30,000 now for everything else. This is for an average silver plan with a 70%/30% split with a 3,000-5,000 deductible and coverage for medical, dental, and vision. Prices around here are about $2,000 to $2,500 for silver plans like that per month.
Throw in child care costs like day care, which exceed state college tuition costs practically everywhere, and that's about $20,000 on average. So now down to $10,000 a year to cover food, transportation, rest/mortgage, electricity, water, garbage collection, and other bill. Basically stretching thing that $10,000 left to a family. Maybe $15,000 if you were good at getting more taxes back from the federal level for some reason. I usually get $10K back, but that is because I am allowed to count the $6K I spend on property taxes here every year.
But had that same family been making $25,000 less per year, the subsidies would kick in pretty good. The tax bracket drops from 25% to 15%. Making a tax burden down to $11,250. Much of which can be claimed back through various deductions like above. Getting around $8K back means basically having $72,000 left over, which is pretty damn close to what the average family after taxes at $100,000 has left over. Difference is now that if both families are using .gov healthcare plans, the second family gets only out of pocket healthcosts per year of a max of 8.21% of their income level because they are at 300% of the FPL. Chances are they are eligible for medicaid in their state that basically takes up the rest of the cost making family two's out of pocket medical expenses for a year typically about $6,000. A far sight lower than $50,000 that would have been incurred had they made $25,000 more per year.
Leaving family of 4 making $75,000 far wealthier at the end of the year than family of 4 making $100,000 per year. Not exactly what I call fair at all.
Its called priorities. You opted to vote for people who told you they would preserve the 2nd amendment they claimed was under attack. Now you can deal with your decision. I certainly am not going to shed a tear for your dumb ass.
While you appear pretty knowledgeable on this subject and I'll assume the above is correct. I'd still wager 100 percent of the 75k households would happily trade places with the 100k households. We all focus on the negative but higher income = better debt to earnings which makes everything easier. Buying a home, buying a car, saving for retirement, better net pay increases.
What specifically is wrong with his post? Do you have a link to refute his link or you just playing the little dictator as is typical for you?
His post has content, yours is nothing but words.
The last "free" colonoscopy cost me several thousand dollars.You should really get a colonoscopy since you are full of sh!t.
https://www.healthcare.gov/preventive-care-adults/
Thanks, that is very useful. My wife refuses to get a colonoscopy because she knows a lot of women who suffered torn or perforated bowels from the procedure, requiring hospitalization. I'll suggest this.I'm a bit OT on this and I only say it because I care. If prep and/or cost is preventing a colonoscopy go this route
http://www.cologuardtest.com/
Its pretty accurate and i will say it worked as advertised for my fiancee. You will need to pressure your doctor to prescribe it but they will do it.
Holy crap that's good. Obamacare has for the first time made me wish I worked for a big corporation. Or better yet, for the government.I'm glad I have a self insured foreign employer. I pay $47 week for Medical, Dental, Vision, Supplemental health, and legal.
Going on the 15th for the consult. I'll let you know after the reaming.The last "free" colonoscopy cost me several thousand dollars.
Anybody here gotten a free colonoscopy from Obamacare?
Meanwhile in Tennessee, we switched to United Healthcare because our one year increase with BlueCross BlueShield was 67%. Now UH has severed its relationship with Memorial Health Initiative, largest in our area and which includes every one of our doctors plus the only hospitals I would choose. And in our Obamacare "insurance" plan, any money spent out of network does not even apply to your deductible. So either we change every doctor, or we now have the world's most expensive unconscious only emergency care only policy. Really hoping somebody blinks here.
People like us, employed by small businesses or with individual policies, are the collateral damage by design. Won't be long before people like us are on Medicaid and feeling lucky to have health insurance at all.
While you appear pretty knowledgeable on this subject and I'll assume the above is correct. I'd still wager 100 percent of the 75k households would happily trade places with the 100k households. We all focus on the negative but higher income = better debt to earnings which makes everything easier. Buying a home, buying a car, saving for retirement, better net pay increases.
Take right now average family of 4 making a combined income of $100,000 a year. Seems like the good life right?
Tax bracket is 25% so basically $25,000 are gone to federal taxes. There are a few ways to lower this burden, like dependent credits and such. Basically drops that burden to around $15,000 at the lowest if you are lucky. Typically around $20,000.
Do you know if the bill coding was fixed with a universal coding system? IIRC that was a major cost because of so many different coding systems and it was on the list to be fixed before the passage of the ACA turd.Well I'm a doctor at a university, and my health insurance sucks in my opinion and is getting much worse. The best part of it was an out of pocket maximum after which 100% of allowable expenses were covered. However, in 2 years time this went from $9k to $13k to $20k, deductibles up about 40%, and out of network reimbursement down 20% after deductible. Premium costs are hardly relevant to whether the insurance is any good, yet it's what we all look at to compare plans.
Regardless of how we look at ACA, the more relevant info here is that the system is still massively broken.
He's not completely accurate in his financial assessment.
First, he makes this claim:
Sounds reasonable, doesn't it? Except it's not reality.
Let's take his family of 4 with a $100k income and really look into the tax situation, esp. since it centers on federal income tax (assumed because of the mention of the 25% tax bracket $100k earners eventually find themselves in.)
First, what's been distorted and left out by Mr. Pie is the fact that $100k of income is NOT fully subject to a 25% tax rate, and I cannot believe people still try that game. The first $18,550 of income for a family filing jointly is subject to a 10% tax rate, not 25%. The next bracket, 15%, is subjected to the income between $18,551-$75,300. The 25% bracket, the next in line, only applies to the income above $75,300. So his total contributions are much lower than his "typically $20k" estimate on tax burden.
In fact, following along on a Form 1040, taking 4 personal exemptions (4 x $4000=$16,000) and the standard deduction for married filing jointly ($12,600) reduces the taxable income for that family of 4 with $100k income to $71,400...which is the amount one should adjust their withholding on for tax purposes. The owed federal tax on the taxable income of $71,400 in 2015 was $9,784, or an effective federal tax rate of 9.784%.
Of course, this makes the assumption the family is making no pre-tax contributions to an IRA/401k, which would further reduce federal income tax exposure. If said family took the max, it'd reduce their taxable income to $53,400 which would produce a federal income tax burden of $7,084...a far cry from the $20k federal income tax burden suggested by Mr. Pie.
And as an aside, who works in a job that pays $100k per year that isn't offered health insurance by their employer? Obamacare isn't really geared towards people/families that can obtain good health ins. via an employee benefit package and I have yet to understand why these oddball irrelevant examples are made except to conflate/confuse/spread FUD about the purpose of the ins. coverage plans.
The rest of the argument is odd. While I guess some states will allow Medicaid to be given to a family of 4 with $75k income, my state, GA, has an income limit for PeachCare for Kids, the GA form of Medicaid for children only, of $61,110, or 252% of FPL. Actual Medicaid, again for kids only, is income limited to $50,925 for the kid's under 1 year of age, falls to mid-$30k income limits older than 1 year old. If the adults want Medicaid coverage, it's income limited to $7,836 yearly income to qualify. $75k is a tad above $8k.
http://healthyfuturega.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Income-Tables-2015.pdf
Now, different states do their Medicaid differently and I'm sure income limits are higher in places. But in almost all instances, adults trying to acquire Medicaid have very, very low income limits...their much broader/higher when talking kids, but then again, in this case the Medicaid is only for the kids.
I'm sure other states are more liberal in their healthcare outreach, such as CA, NY, MA, etc....you know, those dastardly "liberal" states. But for a huge chunk of the country, Medicaid isn't much of an option.
And, again, not to be repetitive, but who works at a job that pays $75k that isn't being offered employer subsidized health insurance via benefits?
Stop spreading facts!He's not completely accurate in his financial assessment.
First, he makes this claim:
Sounds reasonable, doesn't it? Except it's not reality.
Let's take his family of 4 with a $100k income and really look into the tax situation, esp. since it centers on federal income tax (assumed because of the mention of the 25% tax bracket $100k earners eventually find themselves in.)
First, what's been distorted and left out by Mr. Pie is the fact that $100k of income is NOT fully subject to a 25% tax rate, and I cannot believe people still try that game. The first $18,550 of income for a family filing jointly is subject to a 10% tax rate, not 25%. The next bracket, 15%, is subjected to the income between $18,551-$75,300. The 25% bracket, the next in line, only applies to the income above $75,300. So his total contributions are much lower than his "typically $20k" estimate on tax burden.
In fact, following along on a Form 1040, taking 4 personal exemptions (4 x $4000=$16,000) and the standard deduction for married filing jointly ($12,600) reduces the taxable income for that family of 4 with $100k income to $71,400...which is the amount one should adjust their withholding on for tax purposes. The owed federal tax on the taxable income of $71,400 in 2015 was $9,784, or an effective federal tax rate of 9.784%.
Of course, this makes the assumption the family is making no pre-tax contributions to an IRA/401k, which would further reduce federal income tax exposure. If said family took the max, it'd reduce their taxable income to $53,400 which would produce a federal income tax burden of $7,084...a far cry from the $20k federal income tax burden suggested by Mr. Pie.
And as an aside, who works in a job that pays $100k per year that isn't offered health insurance by their employer? Obamacare isn't really geared towards people/families that can obtain good health ins. via an employee benefit package and I have yet to understand why these oddball irrelevant examples are made except to conflate/confuse/spread FUD about the purpose of the ins. coverage plans.
The rest of the argument is odd. While I guess some states will allow Medicaid to be given to a family of 4 with $75k income, my state, GA, has an income limit for PeachCare for Kids, the GA form of Medicaid for children only, of $61,110, or 252% of FPL. Actual Medicaid, again for kids only, is income limited to $50,925 for the kid's under 1 year of age, falls to mid-$30k income limits older than 1 year old. If the adults want Medicaid coverage, it's income limited to $7,836 yearly income to qualify. $75k is a tad above $8k.
http://healthyfuturega.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Income-Tables-2015.pdf
Now, different states do their Medicaid differently and I'm sure income limits are higher in places. But in almost all instances, adults trying to acquire Medicaid have very, very low income limits...their much broader/higher when talking kids, but then again, in this case the Medicaid is only for the kids.
I'm sure other states are more liberal in their healthcare outreach, such as CA, NY, MA, etc....you know, those dastardly "liberal" states. But for a huge chunk of the country, Medicaid isn't much of an option.
And, again, not to be repetitive, but who works at a job that pays $75k that isn't being offered employer subsidized health insurance via benefits?
I'll be interested in how free is your free colonoscopy. Maybe mine was before all the free stuff was fully . . . um . . . free, I suppose. Or maybe there's a special Obama hymn I have to sing before I get shafted . . . By the doctor, I mean. For the government, that ship has sailed.Going on the 15th for the consult. I'll let you know after the reaming.
Medishare or Samaritan maybe. What you and I have already doesn't pay shit so I'm looking to drop out of the system all together. Half the cost and no penalty. And less $$ to support subsidies.
Dude, bshole is the evil rich. He's a very well paid software engineer in a high income area who makes smart choices with his money. When he hates on the evil rich, he means those who are a lot richer than he, even though for most of the left, HE is the evil rich who must be punished.So bshole, look carefully at this post and realize this is the kind of person who is funding your care. An actual, real life person and not an abstraction. One who likely can't save money for his kid's education, move to a safer neighborhood, buy a more suitable car for his family, or save for his own retirement. Because thousands of his money is going to you and those like you. And instead of falling down on your knees in thanks you complain about his "greed."
thanks, man, I appreciate it. Even if I CAN get it free - really free, not the costs thousands of dollars free it cost last time - that is very useful for my wife, who refuses to get a colonoscopy because she knows several people who have had perforated bowels and required hospitalization.I'm a bit OT on this and I only say it because I care. If prep and/or cost is preventing a colonoscopy go this route
http://www.cologuardtest.com/
Its pretty accurate and i will say it worked as advertised for my fiancee. You will need to pressure your doctor to prescribe it but they will do it.
Wow! I take it as a given that people like myself, median+ income earners working for small businesses or self-employed, are intentionally collateral damage. Democrats can't very well move us all to government insurance for the desperately poor without destroying what we have now, not without paying a huge political price. But I am surprised to see doctors at universities swept up in the basket of deplorables.Well I'm a doctor at a university, and my health insurance sucks in my opinion and is getting much worse. The best part of it was an out of pocket maximum after which 100% of allowable expenses were covered. However, in 2 years time this went from $9k to $13k to $20k, deductibles up about 40%, and out of network reimbursement down 20% after deductible. Premium costs are hardly relevant to whether the insurance is any good, yet it's what we all look at to compare plans.
Regardless of how we look at ACA, the more relevant info here is that the system is still massively broken.