Obstetrics and Gynaecology - Semantics - WTF

[zinfamous]

Seconded.

I have worked in Emergency Medicine for 16 years. OB GYN or just OB is usually heard.

this.

no one says O-B-Gin (Gin pronounced like the liquor)

 

[Mo0o]

It depends on who you've been taught by and your personal experience as well, because remember, distribution of cases will vary based on geography too. For example, in New Zealand rheumatic fever from Group A Strep is pretty common; we get med students from Canada etc who come here for their placements and have no idea what to do, because they never get taught it. Our med students who go to Canada, on the other hand, know what to do because it's so big back home, but may never see a case the weeks or months they're there.

Does that mean you guys still see a fair amount of rheumatic heart disease? Rheumatic heart disease here in the states is basically only an immigrant disease now. I'm surprised its still so common in New Zealand. How does it compare to rates in Australia?

 

[eits]

It's what happens, I'm afraid. Most of our tests are weighted as multi-choice, and there aren't that many assignments; there's only so much creativity you can insert into learning physiology. So all that kind of knowledge gets left behind for anatomy & physiology. I still try to maintain standards in spelling, grammar, and punctuation; but many in my class don't.

med school doesn't emphasize anatomy and physiology very much because, based on the medical model, what's the point? know the disease, what it does, where it comes from, and what medicine to give for it. various anatomy and physiology of body parts/organs, etc, are trivial.

it's the exact opposite in chiropractic school. pharmacology and microbiology is way low on the totem pole, whereas anatomy and physiology is high up there.

 

[eits]

There's just a huge amount of regional variation in medicine.

for example, black people and heart disease statistics. in the states, they have rank highest for risk of heart disease. however, in scandanavian countries, they rank the lowest.

 

[Mo0o]

for example, black people and heart disease statistics. in the states, they have rank highest for risk of heart disease. however, in scandanavian countries, they rank the lowest.

Oh i wasnt really speaking to epidemiology. I was more talking about regional idiosyncrasies in the practice medicine thats not guided by the specific needs of the community but more based on traditiona or habit.

 

[Inspector Jihad]

med school doesn't emphasize anatomy and physiology very much because, based on the medical model, what's the point? know the disease, what it does, where it comes from, and what medicine to give for it. various anatomy and physiology of body parts/organs, etc, are trivial.

it's the exact opposite in chiropractic school. pharmacology and microbiology is way low on the totem pole, whereas anatomy and physiology is high up there.

lol. so, physio isn't important in med school? looooool.

 

[abj13]

med school doesn't emphasize anatomy and physiology very much because, based on the medical model, what's the point? know the disease, what it does, where it comes from, and what medicine to give for it. various anatomy and physiology of body parts/organs, etc, are trivial.

Right, all that time you spent in chiropractor school, you had enough time to sit through medical school classes, right? You realize that in most medical schools the second year (and much of the first) is virtually dominated by physiology and pathophysiology of disease? Or how about you sit down and take Step 1 of the medical boards (right after the second year of medical school)? You wouldn't even get close to passing with all that "physiology" you learned from chiropractors.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

Does that mean you guys still see a fair amount of rheumatic heart disease? Rheumatic heart disease here in the states is basically only an immigrant disease now. I'm surprised its still so common in New Zealand. How does it compare to rates in Australia?

A fair amount, apparently. I only know what I get told by my lecturers, I'm not clinical yet. No idea on how it relates to Australia. It's in one of my lectures somewhere, I'll dig it up next week when I start studying for cardio and resp.

med school doesn't emphasize anatomy and physiology very much because, based on the medical model, what's the point? know the disease, what it does, where it comes from, and what medicine to give for it. various anatomy and physiology of body parts/organs, etc, are trivial.

You gotta be kidding, right? Because the amount of physiology and anatomy I'm having to learn right now isn't trivial by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[Daverino]

This has nothing to do with semantics. This is a phonology issue. Can we please maintain the linguistic integrity of this forum?

>:-(

 

[eits]

Oh i wasnt really speaking to epidemiology. I was more talking about regional idiosyncrasies in the practice medicine thats not guided by the specific needs of the community but more based on traditiona or habit.

i know... that's why i just snipped that part of your quote

 

[BoomerD]

I don't work in the field, but every woman I've ever known and every doctor my wife has ever seen, referred to it as "Oh-Bee Gee-Why-Enn."

 

[eits]

A fair amount, apparently. I only know what I get told by my lecturers, I'm not clinical yet. No idea on how it relates to Australia. It's in one of my lectures somewhere, I'll dig it up next week when I start studying for cardio and resp.


You gotta be kidding, right? Because the amount of physiology and anatomy I'm having to learn right now isn't trivial by any stretch of the imagination.

well, good for your school's program. i know that from what my close personal md friends have studied that anatomy and physio is less emphasized than courses like biochem, pharm, and micro. i've discussed things with them pertaining to anatomy and they flat out have said that they don't use it often enough to even remember where the hell the navicular is in relation to the cuboids (among other things).

it's one of those use it or lose it things. med students will use pharm, biochem, path, and micro way more than anatomy and physio... so, it's more important to know more about so you're totally ready when you hit residency. in chiropractic school, we learned pharm, biochem, and micro, too, but it wasn't drilled into us as hard as anatomy, physio, and diff dx.

the fact of the matter is that med school focuses more on certain areas of study and chiropractic school focuses more on other areas of study. both schools teach pretty much the same courses and teach from many of the same textbooks. the big difference is that, let's face it, med school's way harder to get into because they're much more selective than chiropractic school (the med profession can afford to be selective, the chiropractic profession is still relatively new, so it tries to let in more potential future chiropractors and then weeds out most of the stragglers, slackers, and whatnots out as they go through school... it's getting to the point where schools are starting to become increasingly selective). it's like my friends always said... med school isn't hard... it's getting in that's the hard part.

however, based on the experiences of my friends, going through the education itself is about the same as far as difficulty. however, whereas chiropractors graduate and go out into the field to start their own gig, med school grads go into "the shit" and learn SOOO much more than they did in med school. the residency experience is so much more valuable towards becoming a good doctor than is the chiropractic internship experience before graduating. i envy it... in fact, the curriculum at my alma mater changed to include interning at hospitals on various surgical rotations. i think the cce (coucil of chiropractic educators) understands how important it is and is trying to push schools to start implementing similar programs.

chiropractors of the past (the old ones who think they can cure cancer, etc) never had a stringent education like the newer chiropractors. many don't even have a bachelor's degree and didn't have to take state boards because they just got grandfathered into being able to practice without taking them. those guys are starting to die off or retire, giving way to a newer... jesus christ, i just realized how far off topic i am. forgive me.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

well, good for your school's program. i know that from what my close personal md friends have studied that anatomy and physio is less emphasized than courses like biochem, pharm, and micro. i've discussed things with them pertaining to anatomy and they flat out have said that they don't use it often enough to even remember where the hell the navicular is in relation to the cuboids (among other things).

Well, we don't exactly learn everything there is to know about human anatomy (that would take much more than the 6 years we have) but we learn most of the basics; I certainly know where the navicular and cuboid are.

But you do have a relevant point; unless you're going to be a surgeon, it seems that you only need to know 'basics' about anatomy; common blood supplies, lymph drainage, and innervations of organs, dermatomes & myotomes, muscles, etc.

Whereas physiology, in my mind, is a lot more important, much as it pains me to say this. It's important to know how the body works; it's impossible to memorize everything, and it's much easier to just work off physiological principles than it is trying to remember every single little bit of detail about what ions go where, what hormones do what, etc.

it's like my friends always said... med school isn't hard... it's getting in that's the hard part.

Lucky them. Getting in was literally a walk in the park compared to med.

 

[Mo0o]

I think eits is pretty much 100% correct in everything he just said in that long post. MD's end up forgetting a ton of anatomy because they simply do not use it on an everyday basis. Even surgeons are only knowledgeable about the anatomy in their specific field of expertise. Orthopods may know a lot about bone and neurovascular anatomy (I would assume similar to what chiropractors know) but end up forgetting a lot of visceral anatomy. However, I do think that med students and MD's actually know a lot aobut cellular physiology because a lot of the pathophysiology of disease comes from problems at the cellular level.

And the American medical system is pretty much set up to make "getting in the door" the hard part. I know a lot of foreign systems make it really easy to get in and then weed out the idiots throughout the training. In the US, getting in requires at least a bachelor's degree with a lot of "extracurriculars," all in a big song and dance to show medschools that you really really want this and you deserve it over the other schmuck. ANd once you're in it's nearly impossible to flunk out of med school. You're allowed to remediate courses, theres tutors etc etc. Basically teh administration will do everything they can to make sure you dont flunk out. Of course, if you end up struggling, you could end up in a really noncompetitive specialty in a really undesirable location.

 

[TechAZ]

I think eits is pretty much 100% correct in everything he just said in that long post. MD's end up forgetting a ton of anatomy because they simply do not use it on an everyday basis. Even surgeons are only knowledgeable about the anatomy in their specific field of expertise. Orthopods may know a lot about bone and neurovascular anatomy (I would assume similar to what chiropractors know) but end up forgetting a lot of visceral anatomy. However, I do think that med students and MD's actually know a lot aobut cellular physiology because a lot of the pathophysiology of disease comes from problems at the cellular level.

And the American medical system is pretty much set up to make "getting in the door" the hard part. I know a lot of foreign systems make it really easy to get in and then weed out the idiots throughout the training. In the US, getting in requires at least a bachelor's degree with a lot of "extracurriculars," all in a big song and dance to show medschools that you really really want this and you deserve it over the other schmuck. ANd once you're in it's nearly impossible to flunk out of med school. You're allowed to remediate courses, theres tutors etc etc. Basically teh administration will do everything they can to make sure you dont flunk out. Of course, if you end up struggling, you could end up in a really noncompetitive specialty in a really undesirable location.

That's kind of why surgeon's are specialized in their perspective field. The human body is too complex to know everything inside and out. An ortho/spine doc who does 95% lumbar laminectomy/fusion/plating cannot possibly be expected to be able to perform a thoracic approach lami and open a chest and belly and move organs aside, all while watching out for different nerves and vessels without a general surgeon and thoracic surgeon's assistance.....when these cases are few and far between.

I think docs have a good enough grasp on anatomy. At least surgeons do, can't speak for internal med / family docs.

 

[Inspector Jihad]

I think eits is pretty much 100% correct in everything he just said in that long post. MD's end up forgetting a ton of anatomy because they simply do not use it on an everyday basis. Even surgeons are only knowledgeable about the anatomy in their specific field of expertise. Orthopods may know a lot about bone and neurovascular anatomy (I would assume similar to what chiropractors know) but end up forgetting a lot of visceral anatomy. However, I do think that med students and MD's actually know a lot aobut cellular physiology because a lot of the pathophysiology of disease comes from problems at the cellular level.

And the American medical system is pretty much set up to make "getting in the door" the hard part. I know a lot of foreign systems make it really easy to get in and then weed out the idiots throughout the training. In the US, getting in requires at least a bachelor's degree with a lot of "extracurriculars," all in a big song and dance to show medschools that you really really want this and you deserve it over the other schmuck. ANd once you're in it's nearly impossible to flunk out of med school. You're allowed to remediate courses, theres tutors etc etc. Basically teh administration will do everything they can to make sure you dont flunk out. Of course, if you end up struggling, you could end up in a really noncompetitive specialty in a really undesirable location.

you're so right about anatomy. i'm worried about starting surgery in a few months cause my anatomy is pretty bad. the liver is on the right side right?

oh, and i know first hand how hard it can be to 'get in the door'. all the bullshit volunteering and uninteresting research. its all a mess.

 

[alkemyst]

I've never heard anyone say O-B-Gin.

QFT...OP you need a bus to take you back and forth to where you live? Do they have daily trips to the local mall?

may be the reason, just saying.

 

[BassBomb]

I've never heard anyone say O-B-Gin.

It's O-B-G-Y-N.

this

 

[eits]

That's kind of why surgeon's are specialized in their perspective field. The human body is too complex to know everything inside and out. An ortho/spine doc who does 95% lumbar laminectomy/fusion/plating cannot possibly be expected to be able to perform a thoracic approach lami and open a chest and belly and move organs aside, all while watching out for different nerves and vessels without a general surgeon and thoracic surgeon's assistance.....when these cases are few and far between.

I think docs have a good enough grasp on anatomy. At least surgeons do, can't speak for internal med / family docs.

my friend went to get his gallbladder removed. the surgeon took out his spleen instead.

granted, it was the chief of surgery for the u.s. army, but still.

 

[alkemyst]

my friend went to get his gallbladder removed. the surgeon took out his spleen instead.

granted, it was the chief of surgery for the u.s. army, but still.

Well you sign a release at least back in the day that you may have 'experimental' procedures performed more or less while in the military.

To the part you quoted...it's all about the customized experience today more or less rather than a good surgeon. Specialities are great in extreme measures. Give me a good general doc and surgeon 9 times out of 10 though.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

Well you sign a release at least back in the day that you may have 'experimental' procedures performed more or less while in the military.

To the part you quoted...it's all about the customized experience today more or less rather than a good surgeon. Specialities are great in extreme measures. Give me a good general doc and surgeon 9 times out of 10 though.

There's a pretty big difference between the spleen and the gallbladder...surely sometime during the operation to take it out you'd kind of realize that you weren't seeing the liver and that the organ you're taking out is attached to all manner of other viscera...

 

[Mo0o]

There's a pretty big difference between the spleen and the gallbladder...surely sometime during the operation to take it out you'd kind of realize that you weren't seeing the liver and that the organ you're taking out is attached to all manner of other viscera...

I'm guessing there was some kind of administrative confusion or intraoperative mistake that lead to splenic infarction. Theres no way the surgeon got confused as to which organ was which

 

[JS80]

Weird, I've only heard it as O-B Gin here in Los Angeles.

Actually sometimes even O-B Jen

 

[alkemyst]

There's a pretty big difference between the spleen and the gallbladder...surely sometime during the operation to take it out you'd kind of realize that you weren't seeing the liver and that the organ you're taking out is attached to all manner of other viscera...

you quoted me and still missed what I was saying.

 

[tcsenter]

no, seriously... it's never called "o-b-gin"

it's called o-b-gyn or o-b-g-y-n or just plain o-b or gyno

I worked at two different medical centers (both teaching hospitals) 120 miles apart, and "jin" was the prevailing pronunciation at both of them. Occasionally we'd get a resident from another country (e.g. UK, India, Australia) who would say "gyne" (long Y, silent E), but it was the exception. The other common expression was to enunciate all the letters; O...B...G...Y...N