Obviously NOT a Guerrilla type war . .

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
10,053
0
71
Since the 'Criminals' as Bush calls them launched Mortar Attacks on the Sustainer Army Airbase and ambushed a convoy 3 times enroute,
while another group of Iraqi Boy Scouts attacked and killed 7+ Policemen at the Graduation ceremony (wounding 50+)
Oh yeah, these were the ones we were training by the way, it can't be a Guerrilla style of warfare.
Bush and Rumsfeld said so. This is a classic text book definition of Guerrilla Warfare.

Also noticed that Bush still insists on calling the suicide bombers 'Homicide Bombers'
and FOX goes along with it - in light of no other news agency following the script.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Since the 'Criminals' as Bush calls them launched Mortar Attacks on the Sustainer Army Airbase and ambushed a convoy 3 times enroute,
while another group of Iraqi Boy Scouts attacked and killed 7+ Policemen at the Graduation ceremony (wounding 50+)
Oh yeah, these were the ones we were training by the way, it can't be a Guerrilla style of warfare.
Bush and Rumsfeld said so. This is a classic text book definition of Guerrilla Warfare.

Also noticed that Bush still insists on calling the suicide bombers 'Homicide Bombers'
and FOX goes along with it - in light of no other news agency following the script.

Did you honestly expect zero resistance after this war was over?
 

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
10,053
0
71
I expected exactly what is going on, and I expect it to escalate even more.
My comment is that the Administration in their rush to war and their lack of facing reality,
dismissing what the Generals told them, and then trying to say that it is something other
than what it actually is is dishonest.
They have never spen even one minute in combat, but will taunt the enemy to hit us again and again.

Johnson and Nixon weren't even that stupid and arrogant during the 'Nam years.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
I expected exactly what is going on, and I expect it to escalate even more.
My comment is that the Administration in their rush to war and their lack of facing reality,
dismissing what the Generals told them, and then trying to say that it is something other
than what it actually is is dishonest.
They have never spen even one minute in combat, but will taunt the enemy to hit us again and again.

Johnson and Nixon weren't even that stupid and arrogant during the 'Nam years.

I fear you will be sadly disappointed when the resistance becomes less and less as reconstruction continues and parts of goverment are handed back over the the Iraqi population.

Will you be willing to admit your when this happens?
 

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
10,053
0
71
Doubt that it is going to happen as rapidly as you hope.
Their resistance is building up, and hits will become more frequent as well as more co-ordinated,
we'll be there a long time, but I doubt that we will have the daily body-bag numbers that we had in 'Nam,
as they will fight from within on their terms, whenever that can inflict casualties to us that will outweigh
their own losses, they are not going to fight a standing set-piece war with us - It's Guerrilla time, Homey.

The 'Reconstruction' is not going as wonderfully as the press would like you to think.
Afganistan is a deteriorating situation, and our troops in Iraq need reinforcements
that Bush and Rumsfeld deny that they need, so no replacement or reinforcement plan is in place.
We tried to buy mercenaries - India, for example, and have asked for help from some of the
Coalition of the Willing, I think Japan (who isn't really allowed to have a real Army) is sending
troops in a humanitarian aid role, but thats like a carnival shoot in a barrel.

Talk about sending some of our troops into Africa - when we need more in other places ?
Can you say 'Spread too thin', and vulnerable ? It's obvious that no country's milita can
face us on a full scale war basis, but we are in their territory and on their time schedule.
Our 18 month maximum to the Balkans is at 7 years and counting, we've been in South Korea
for over 50 years, and are we ready to annex Iraq as a commonwealth for another 20 ?
 

Michael

Elite member
Nov 19, 1999
5,435
234
106
Quagmire!

Vietnam!

Lions, Tigers, and Bears, Oh My!

Did I miss anything?

Michael
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,995
776
126
Originally posted by: Michael
Quagmire!

Vietnam!

Lions, Tigers, and Bears, Oh My!

Did I miss anything?

Michael

Truth and Justice seems to be missing.
 

JellyBaby

Diamond Member
Apr 21, 2000
9,159
1
81
It's getting ugly over there. It really saddens me our soldiers, who exist to ensure the security of America, have to die in a far away land because an elitist told them they have to maintain order there.

According to Hackworth the troops in Iraq aren't receiving adequate supplies and commanders aren't applying lessons learn in previous guerilla conflicts. One of his complaints is that little of the $3 billion/per month expended to rebuild Iraq seems to be going into logistics for the military there.
 

alchemize

Lifer
Mar 24, 2000
11,489
0
0
Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
I expected exactly what is going on, and I expect it to escalate even more.
My comment is that the Administration in their rush to war and their lack of facing reality,
dismissing what the Generals told them, and then trying to say that it is something other
than what it actually is is dishonest.
They have never spen even one minute in combat, but will taunt the enemy to hit us again and again.

Johnson and Nixon weren't even that stupid and arrogant during the 'Nam years.
Hahahaha. Now you are truly exposing your idiocy.

Johnson and Nixon stayed in 'Nam almost soley to "save face". The entire question was "how do we back out gracefully". Now how isn't that stupid and arrogant?

/me flicks a quarter at Private Kirk to buy a clue.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Doubt that it is going to happen as rapidly as you hope.
Their resistance is building up, and hits will become more frequent as well as more co-ordinated,
we'll be there a long time, but I doubt that we will have the daily body-bag numbers that we had in 'Nam,
as they will fight from within on their terms, whenever that can inflict casualties to us that will outweigh
their own losses, they are not going to fight a standing set-piece war with us - It's Guerrilla time, Homey.

The 'Reconstruction' is not going as wonderfully as the press would like you to think.
Afganistan is a deteriorating situation, and our troops in Iraq need reinforcements
that Bush and Rumsfeld deny that they need, so no replacement or reinforcement plan is in place.
We tried to buy mercenaries - India, for example, and have asked for help from some of the
Coalition of the Willing, I think Japan (who isn't really allowed to have a real Army) is sending
troops in a humanitarian aid role, but thats like a carnival shoot in a barrel.

Talk about sending some of our troops into Africa - when we need more in other places ?
Can you say 'Spread too thin', and vulnerable ? It's obvious that no country's milita can
face us on a full scale war basis, but we are in their territory and on their time schedule.
Our 18 month maximum to the Balkans is at 7 years and counting, we've been in South Korea
for over 50 years, and are we ready to annex Iraq as a commonwealth for another 20 ?

I can only wonder how the media responded to the reconstruction of Germany and Japan. I wonder if they yelled quagmire after 3 months of the war being over. I wonder if the Marshall plan was perfect at the time? I wonder if 6 years was considered too long of an occupation of Japan before all the services where handed back to Japan?


It must really bother you that every day services in Iraq get better. It has not been perfect, and things could have been done better. But things are getting better.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Doubt that it is going to happen as rapidly as you hope.
Their resistance is building up, and hits will become more frequent as well as more co-ordinated,
we'll be there a long time, but I doubt that we will have the daily body-bag numbers that we had in 'Nam,
as they will fight from within on their terms, whenever that can inflict casualties to us that will outweigh
their own losses, they are not going to fight a standing set-piece war with us - It's Guerrilla time, Homey.

The 'Reconstruction' is not going as wonderfully as the press would like you to think.
Afganistan is a deteriorating situation, and our troops in Iraq need reinforcements
that Bush and Rumsfeld deny that they need, so no replacement or reinforcement plan is in place.
We tried to buy mercenaries - India, for example, and have asked for help from some of the
Coalition of the Willing, I think Japan (who isn't really allowed to have a real Army) is sending
troops in a humanitarian aid role, but thats like a carnival shoot in a barrel.

Talk about sending some of our troops into Africa - when we need more in other places ?
Can you say 'Spread too thin', and vulnerable ? It's obvious that no country's milita can
face us on a full scale war basis, but we are in their territory and on their time schedule.
Our 18 month maximum to the Balkans is at 7 years and counting, we've been in South Korea
for over 50 years, and are we ready to annex Iraq as a commonwealth for another 20 ?

I can only wonder how the media responded to the reconstruction of Germany and Japan. I wonder if they yelled quagmire after 3 months of the war being over. I wonder if the Marshall plan was perfect at the time? I wonder if 6 years was considered too long of an occupation of Japan before all the services where handed back to Japan?


It must really bother you that every day services in Iraq get better. It has not been perfect, and things could have been done better. But things are getting better.

You will not find guerrilla warfare being an issure in WWII reconstruction if I recall correctly. Europe and Japan were easy sailing. No fanatics left over.

 

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
10,737
0
0
Europe and Japan were easy sailing. No fanatics left over.
I think there are two separate issues at hand. 1) How well the population received the victor? 2) How well the victor took care of the people?

In Germany and Japan I believe the response to occupation was quite muted . . . granted its not like any school in America (K-12) actually teaches such things. As for the latter, I believe their was significantly more hardship on the people after the war but I think that's a direct reflection of the devastation in civilian centers. I'm not sure there's any historical event that's appropriate for comparison to what the US is attempting to do in Iraq. Hence, our actions must be viewed within its own context.
 

etech

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
10,597
0
0
Hayabusarider

You will not find guerrilla warfare being an issure in WWII reconstruction if I recall correctly. Europe and Japan were easy sailing. No fanatics left over.

Chronology

September 2, 1945
Japan surrender aboard the USS Missouri in Tokyo Harbor.
Officially ends the war in the Pacific and WWII.

December 1, 1945 Guam
Captain Oba and about forty-six other members of his force surrendered to U.S. forces. These were the last organized hold-outs of the Japanese forces in Saipan. Captain Oba's company of Japanese soldiers who held out after the Battle for Saipan hiding in the caves and jungles, carrying out occasional guerrilla actions against U.S. forces.

1946

January 25, 1946 Philippines
A Japanese unit of 120 men was routed after a battle in the mountains 150 miles south of Manila.

February 1946 Philippines - on Lubang Island.
70 miles southwest of Maillia Bay a seven week campaign to clear the island was begun by the Filipino 341st and American 86th Division. Intense fighting developed on February 22, 1946 when troops encountered 30 Japanese. Eight Allied troops were killed, including 2 Filipinos. The Filipino and Americans sent for an additional 20,000 rounds of small arm ammunition, but not future battles occurred of this magnitude.

March 1946 Guam
A Japanese band of unknown size attacked and killed a six man patrol on Guam on March 1946.

Early April Philippines - on Lubang Island.
Forty-one members of the Japanese garrison come out of the jungle, unaware that the war had ended.

1947

End March - early April 1947 Peleliu Island - Band of Japanese lead by Ei Yamaguchi
A band of 33 Japanese soldiers renews fighting on the island by attacking a Marine patrol with hand grenades. At that time, only 150 Marines were stationed on the island, with 35 dependents. Reinforcement were called in to hunt down the hideouts. American patrols with a Japanese Admiral sent to convince the troops that the war was indeed over finally convinced the holdouts to come out peacefully. The band emerged from the jungle in two groups in late April, lead by Ei Yamaguchi who turned over his sword and unit's battle flags.

April 1947 Philippines - on Palawan Island.
Seven Japanese troops armed with a mortar launcher emerged from the jungle.

June 1947 Philippines
4,000 of the 114,000 troops in the Philippines as of August 1945 were still unaccounted for in mid 1946. Only 109 miles from the capital, Manila, were signs warning about armed Japanese soldiers still in the hills.

October 27, 1947 Guadalcanal Island
The last Japanese soldier surrenders. belongings included a water bottle, a broken Australian bayonet and a Japanese entrenching tool.

1948

January 1948 Philippines - Mindinao Island
200 well organized and disciplined troops finally gave themselves up on Mindinao.

Late 1948 China
An estimated 10-20,000 well equipped Japanese troops were trapped in the mountains of Manchuria and did not surrender until late in 1948. They were caught in a no man's land of civil war stuck between the warring Nationalist and Communist forces and were unable to surrender.

1951

June 30 1951 Anatahan
A group of stranded survivors of a Japanese vessel sunk by the American military found their way to the island of Anatahan, 75 nautical miles north of Saipan. The island?s coast line is precipitous with landing beaches on the northern and western shore and a small sandy beach on the southwest shore. It?s steep slopes are furrowed by deep gorges covered by high grass. This brooding cone jutting from the sea floor is a large, extinct volcano with two peaks and a grass covered flat field, the final resting place for a B-29 Superfortress that crashed upon returning from a bombing mission over Nagoya, Japan on January 3, 1945 killing the aircraft?s crew.

By 1951 the Japanese holdouts on the island refused to believe that the war was over and resisted every attempt by the Navy to remove them. This group was first discovered in February 1945, when several Chamorros from Saipan were sent to the island to recover the bodies of the Saipan based B-29, T square 42, from the 498th Bomb Group, 875th Squadron, 73rd Wing under the command of Richard Carlson Stickney, Jr. The Chamorros reported that there were about thirty Japanese survivors from three Japanese ships sunk in June 1944, one of which was an Okinawan woman. .......

1953

1953 Tinian
Japanese soldier Murata Susumu was captured in 1953. He was living in a small shack near a swamp since the war.

Lieutenant Onoda, by contrast, doggedly refused to lay down his arms until he received formal orders to surrender. He was the sole survivor of a small band that had sporadically attacked the local population. Although one of them surrendered in 1950 after becoming separated from the others, Onoda's two remaining companions died in gun battles with local forces - one in 1954, the other in 1972.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
Originally posted by: etech
Hayabusarider

You will not find guerrilla warfare being an issure in WWII reconstruction if I recall correctly. Europe and Japan were easy sailing. No fanatics left over.

Chronology

September 2, 1945
Japan surrender aboard the USS Missouri in Tokyo Harbor.
Officially ends the war in the Pacific and WWII.

December 1, 1945 Guam
Captain Oba and about forty-six other members of his force surrendered to U.S. forces. These were the last organized hold-outs of the Japanese forces in Saipan. Captain Oba's company of Japanese soldiers who held out after the Battle for Saipan hiding in the caves and jungles, carrying out occasional guerrilla actions against U.S. forces.

1946

January 25, 1946 Philippines
A Japanese unit of 120 men was routed after a battle in the mountains 150 miles south of Manila.

February 1946 Philippines - on Lubang Island.
70 miles southwest of Maillia Bay a seven week campaign to clear the island was begun by the Filipino 341st and American 86th Division. Intense fighting developed on February 22, 1946 when troops encountered 30 Japanese. Eight Allied troops were killed, including 2 Filipinos. The Filipino and Americans sent for an additional 20,000 rounds of small arm ammunition, but not future battles occurred of this magnitude.

March 1946 Guam
A Japanese band of unknown size attacked and killed a six man patrol on Guam on March 1946.

Early April Philippines - on Lubang Island.
Forty-one members of the Japanese garrison come out of the jungle, unaware that the war had ended.

1947

End March - early April 1947 Peleliu Island - Band of Japanese lead by Ei Yamaguchi
A band of 33 Japanese soldiers renews fighting on the island by attacking a Marine patrol with hand grenades. At that time, only 150 Marines were stationed on the island, with 35 dependents. Reinforcement were called in to hunt down the hideouts. American patrols with a Japanese Admiral sent to convince the troops that the war was indeed over finally convinced the holdouts to come out peacefully. The band emerged from the jungle in two groups in late April, lead by Ei Yamaguchi who turned over his sword and unit's battle flags.

April 1947 Philippines - on Palawan Island.
Seven Japanese troops armed with a mortar launcher emerged from the jungle.

June 1947 Philippines
4,000 of the 114,000 troops in the Philippines as of August 1945 were still unaccounted for in mid 1946. Only 109 miles from the capital, Manila, were signs warning about armed Japanese soldiers still in the hills.

October 27, 1947 Guadalcanal Island
The last Japanese soldier surrenders. belongings included a water bottle, a broken Australian bayonet and a Japanese entrenching tool.

1948

January 1948 Philippines - Mindinao Island
200 well organized and disciplined troops finally gave themselves up on Mindinao.

Late 1948 China
An estimated 10-20,000 well equipped Japanese troops were trapped in the mountains of Manchuria and did not surrender until late in 1948. They were caught in a no man's land of civil war stuck between the warring Nationalist and Communist forces and were unable to surrender.

1951

June 30 1951 Anatahan
A group of stranded survivors of a Japanese vessel sunk by the American military found their way to the island of Anatahan, 75 nautical miles north of Saipan. The island?s coast line is precipitous with landing beaches on the northern and western shore and a small sandy beach on the southwest shore. It?s steep slopes are furrowed by deep gorges covered by high grass. This brooding cone jutting from the sea floor is a large, extinct volcano with two peaks and a grass covered flat field, the final resting place for a B-29 Superfortress that crashed upon returning from a bombing mission over Nagoya, Japan on January 3, 1945 killing the aircraft?s crew.

By 1951 the Japanese holdouts on the island refused to believe that the war was over and resisted every attempt by the Navy to remove them. This group was first discovered in February 1945, when several Chamorros from Saipan were sent to the island to recover the bodies of the Saipan based B-29, T square 42, from the 498th Bomb Group, 875th Squadron, 73rd Wing under the command of Richard Carlson Stickney, Jr. The Chamorros reported that there were about thirty Japanese survivors from three Japanese ships sunk in June 1944, one of which was an Okinawan woman. .......

1953

1953 Tinian
Japanese soldier Murata Susumu was captured in 1953. He was living in a small shack near a swamp since the war.

Lieutenant Onoda, by contrast, doggedly refused to lay down his arms until he received formal orders to surrender. He was the sole survivor of a small band that had sporadically attacked the local population. Although one of them surrendered in 1950 after becoming separated from the others, Onoda's two remaining companions died in gun battles with local forces - one in 1954, the other in 1972.

Thanks for the info etech. Was there much trouble in country?
 

DaHitman

Golden Member
Apr 6, 2001
1,158
0
0
Originally posted by: Hayabusarider

You will not find guerrilla warfare being an issure in WWII reconstruction if I recall correctly. Europe and Japan were easy sailing. No fanatics left over.



Your forgetting some history...

After the US took the island provice of Okinawa, and after the Jap Govt had surrendered, there were thousands of japaneese that continued to fight using guerrilla tatics and perform suicide attacks in the name of the emperior against our occupation forces for some time after the surrender.

We lost soldiers in the months and years during the occupation of okinawa because of fantics loyal to the emperior who would not give up, just like we are seeing in Iraq. There was a huge number of japaneese soldiers that thought it was better to die defending the emperior than surrender, their losses after the americans captured okinawa were huge, many just blew themselves up holding grenades to their stomach they were so fanatical and could not accept defat.


But of course, you can't find many people in this world that care enough to study history, so we just assume we all know everything and what is going on today is different when it really isn't all that different than the past.

 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
Originally posted by: DaHitman
Originally posted by: Hayabusarider

You will not find guerrilla warfare being an issure in WWII reconstruction if I recall correctly. Europe and Japan were easy sailing. No fanatics left over.



Your forgetting some history...

After the US took the island provice of Okinawa, and after the Jap Govt had surrendered, there were thousands of japaneese that continued to fight using guerrilla tatics and perform suicide attacks in the name of the emperior against our occupation forces for some time after the surrender.

We lost soldiers in the months and years during the occupation of okinawa because of fantics loyal to the emperior who would not give up, just like we are seeing in Iraq. There was a huge number of japaneese soldiers that thought it was better to die defending the emperior than surrender, their losses after the americans captured okinawa were huge, many just blew themselves up holding grenades to their stomach they were so fanatical and could not accept defat.


But of course, you can't find many people in this world that care enough to study history, so we just assume we all know everything and what is going on today is different when it really isn't all that different than the past.


Indeed you are correct as I alluded to in the above post. I was thinking of the country proper. I recall the island holdouts, but could not remember acts of blowing up buildings etc withing the countrys borders. Perhaps I am in error about that.
 

alchemize

Lifer
Mar 24, 2000
11,489
0
0
Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Johnson and Nixon didn't taunt.
Are you that uninformed ?


Nixon and Johnson LOVED to talk trash, in a 1960's/1970's sort of way. But I'm not here to be your history teacher. I'd suggest if you are gonna start quoting it, you ought to learn it.

Here are some lovely Johnson quotes, courtesy of google:

"I never trust a man unless I've got his pecker in my pocket. "
A personal favorite

"I hear the headlines on the radio, see them on TV and read them in the paper. When I hear from the men out there, I sometimes don't believe they are talking about the same situation. "
Sounds like Rummy!

"If you let a bully come in your front yard, he'll be on your porch the next day and the day after that he'll rape your wife in your own bed. "
I wonder how the Viet Cong took that agression comment?

"They call upon us to supply American boys to do the job that Asian boys should do. "
I wonder how the south vietnamese took that?

"The Air Force comes in every morning and says, "Bomb, bomb, bomb." And then the State Department comes in and says, "Not now, or not there, or too much, or not at all."
Tee hee don't you love how history replays itself?







 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: Hayabusarider
Originally posted by: DaHitman
Originally posted by: Hayabusarider

You will not find guerrilla warfare being an issure in WWII reconstruction if I recall correctly. Europe and Japan were easy sailing. No fanatics left over.



Your forgetting some history...

After the US took the island provice of Okinawa, and after the Jap Govt had surrendered, there were thousands of japaneese that continued to fight using guerrilla tatics and perform suicide attacks in the name of the emperior against our occupation forces for some time after the surrender.

We lost soldiers in the months and years during the occupation of okinawa because of fantics loyal to the emperior who would not give up, just like we are seeing in Iraq. There was a huge number of japaneese soldiers that thought it was better to die defending the emperior than surrender, their losses after the americans captured okinawa were huge, many just blew themselves up holding grenades to their stomach they were so fanatical and could not accept defat.


But of course, you can't find many people in this world that care enough to study history, so we just assume we all know everything and what is going on today is different when it really isn't all that different than the past.


Indeed you are correct as I alluded to in the above post. I was thinking of the country proper. I recall the island holdouts, but could not remember acts of blowing up buildings etc withing the countrys borders. Perhaps I am in error about that.

We also had a bit of an advantage in Japan. We got the unconditional surrender from Japan backed by the support from the Emporer. Many high ranking officers in the Japanese military that disagreed with the surrender committed suicide. Even with this, it still took 6 years of occupation to put a new goverment into place. New goverments are not put into place overnight. The success of rebuilding Iraq will be determined in years following the end of the war, not the weeks and months following the war.


 

Trezza

Senior member
Sep 18, 2002
522
0
0
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: Hayabusarider
Originally posted by: DaHitman
Originally posted by: Hayabusarider

You will not find guerrilla warfare being an issure in WWII reconstruction if I recall correctly. Europe and Japan were easy sailing. No fanatics left over.



Your forgetting some history...

After the US took the island provice of Okinawa, and after the Jap Govt had surrendered, there were thousands of japaneese that continued to fight using guerrilla tatics and perform suicide attacks in the name of the emperior against our occupation forces for some time after the surrender.

We lost soldiers in the months and years during the occupation of okinawa because of fantics loyal to the emperior who would not give up, just like we are seeing in Iraq. There was a huge number of japaneese soldiers that thought it was better to die defending the emperior than surrender, their losses after the americans captured okinawa were huge, many just blew themselves up holding grenades to their stomach they were so fanatical and could not accept defat.


But of course, you can't find many people in this world that care enough to study history, so we just assume we all know everything and what is going on today is different when it really isn't all that different than the past.


Indeed you are correct as I alluded to in the above post. I was thinking of the country proper. I recall the island holdouts, but could not remember acts of blowing up buildings etc withing the countrys borders. Perhaps I am in error about that.

We also had a bit of an advantage in Japan. We got the unconditional surrender from Japan backed by the support from the Emporer. Many high ranking officers in the Japanese military that disagreed with the surrender committed suicide. Even with this, it still took 6 years of occupation to put a new goverment into place. New goverments are not put into place overnight. The success of rebuilding Iraq will be determined in years following the end of the war, not the weeks and months following the war.

i agree with what your saying but i also don't think that you can compare the average sanity of an asian man to the average sanity of a middle eastern person. When was the last time china/japan/korea/vietnam had a holy war/terrorist group? My point is you can;t be right in the head if your going to war over religion or you know that as a member of a terrorist group you will either be killed or kill yourself when you inflect causualties.

 

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
10,053
0
71
Just don't get it do you ?
So there were some 'Trash' comments from Johnson in the 60's and Nixon in the 70's -
Show me where either one of them had the audacity to tell North Viet Nam to
'Bring it on' or 'Hit us some more', or 'You're chicken if you don't attack our troops',
which is essentially what Bush said.

Fly your flag as your avatar, but how long have you spent in combat ?
 

tcsenter

Lifer
Sep 7, 2001
18,420
293
126
Oh yeah, these were the ones we were training by the way, it can't be a Guerrilla style of warfare. Bush and Rumsfeld said so. This is a classic text book definition of Guerrilla Warfare.
These are text book guerrilla "tactics", but not a "Guerrilla War", in the sense that Bush & Co define it.

What they are saying is, these are fanatical left-overs of regular military and militia loyal to Hussein (professional soldiers who have lost their professional military organization), not business owners and taxi cab drivers or your otherwise average citizen who has put down their shovels and stethoscopes and taken up arms in resistance.

IOW, these are combatants left-over from Iraq's former military establishements (the losers of a conflict who won't give up until they're dead), not an 'uprising' of Iraqi people.
 

Warin

Senior member
Sep 6, 2001
270
0
0
Originally posted by: tcsenter
Oh yeah, these were the ones we were training by the way, it can't be a Guerrilla style of warfare. Bush and Rumsfeld said so. This is a classic text book definition of Guerrilla Warfare.
These are text book guerrilla "tactics", but not a "Guerrilla War", in the sense that Bush & Co define it.

What they are saying is, these are fanatical left-overs of regular military and militia loyal to Hussein (professional soldiers who have lost their professional military organization), not business owners and taxi cab drivers or your otherwise average citizen who has put down their shovels and stethoscopes and taken up arms in resistance.

IOW, these are combatants left-over from Iraq's former military establishements (the losers of a conflict who won't give up until they're dead), not an 'uprising' of Iraqi people.

Beyond the assurances of TBA (Who have been known to stretch the truth when it comes to Iraq), how do you know that the people attacking Americans in Iraq are not just average citizens? I havent seen any reliable evidence either way.

Iraq is going to be a long and messy slog for the US. It's really an unenviable position to be in. The fact that Rumsfeld seemingly believed that the Iraqi populace would welcome the US with open arms is the biggest blunder in US war planning. As much as it might rankle some people in the US, perhaps the best course of action would to be to get a multinational UN peace keeping force into Iraq, hopefully with the support of the other Arab nations.
 
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