Ocasio-Cortez bans press from town hall

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UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
19,275
1,361
126
Yup, you're right, America would much rather have an unelected cabal of corporate executives, bankers and billionaires making these same decisions for us. A government of the people, by the people and for the people needs less people!!!


The thing is these unelected cabal of businessmen exist in a free market where if they suck at what they’re doing people are free to take their business elsewhere. If the government is the only player in town and you don’t like what they’re doing, well, tough shit.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
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Never said we didn’t. The tax cuts were completely irresponsible. Spending is what needs to be cut. Progressives are going to have to raise taxes on everyone considerably, not just the top, if we are going to implement something that cost $40 trillion over the next 10 years. Thinking that you can pay for it out of just the wealthy is naive. The half the country not paying anything think yeah this sounds great, but they'll be in for sticker shock when they see their paycheck shrink considerably to pay for it.

I get this place is an echo chamber that thinks government is the answer to everything, but much of America doesn’t want to see the size of Fed gov grow exponentially. You can find polls where people say yeah sounds great, but if you follow up and ask do you want to see the size of government triple or whatever it would be I think you’d see a lot less enthusiasm.

And you try to claim you're not a Republican. That's straight GOP framing other than about the tax cuts.

American working people need a new New Deal if we're to prosper & voices like Ocasio-Cortez will help us to achieve it. As I pointed out, it's a matter of economic self defense. There's no other way to wrestle back the share of the pie we enjoyed back in 1980.

GOP policy flies in the face of that completely. Middle class people who try to ignore what's happened to us from Reagan forward aren't doing themselves any favors. The truth is that we've been losing rather badly.
 

UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
19,275
1,361
126
No we don’t have to have a New Deal in order to prosper. No the government isn’t meant to shower us with goodies. Yes we need to cut government spending.
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,040
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No we don’t have to have a New Deal in order to prosper. No the government isn’t meant to shower us with goodies. Yes we need to cut government spending.
Then start by slashing the military by half, it’s still 5X more instead of 10X more than the rest of the military powers,they should be fine.

Sorry Donny, no Space Force for you!
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,538
50,719
136
Admittedly don’t vote in local elections much. Voted Bush - Obama - Obama - Trump. Dunno who I’ll vote for in 2020. This is all beside the point.

It’s really not - you voted for Republicans even knowing how utterly fiscally irresponsible they are. It makes your questions about fiscal responsibility ridiculous.
 

UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
19,275
1,361
126
It’s really not - you voted for Republicans even knowing how utterly fiscally irresponsible they are. It makes your questions about fiscal responsibility ridiculous.


I voted for a Democrat knowing the same. We haven’t had a legitimately fiscally responsible person near the White House in who knows how long. Presented with one I’d wear the buttons and fly their flag in my yard. Republicans slashing taxing is fiscally irresponsible. Democrats promising shit they can’t pay for is fiscally irresponsible. Ocasio-Cortez is fiscally irresponsible. And she also bans the press. Cheers
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,538
50,719
136
I voted for a Democrat knowing the same. We haven’t had a legitimately fiscally responsible person near the White House in who knows how long. Presented with one I’d wear the buttons and fly their flag in my yard. Republicans slashing taxing is fiscally irresponsible. Democrats promising shit they can’t pay for is fiscally irresponsible. Ocasio-Cortez is fiscally irresponsible. And she also bans the press. Cheers

Obama was very fiscally responsible. Deficit spending after the financial crisis made us LESS debt burdened as fiscal multipliers were above one. You voted for people you knew would pass a bunch of irresponsible, debt financed giveaways for rich people in a strong economy.

Your complaints about how she will pay for these things are irrelevant as you obviously don’t actually care.
 
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Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
No we don’t have to have a New Deal in order to prosper. No the government isn’t meant to shower us with goodies. Yes we need to cut government spending.

So how else does the middle class wrangle back the benefit of the share of income they've lost to the top 1% since 1980?

The bottom 50% of filers lost ~1/3 their share of national income & those in the 50-75% lost ~1/4 the same way & it went to the top 1%, doubling their share to ~20%. Table 5-

https://taxfoundation.org/summary-latest-federal-income-tax-data-2015-update

You go on as if economic realty hasn't changed since Reagan when it really has & rather profoundly. If we want to keep on losing we can keep doing things the same way, of course.
 

UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
19,275
1,361
126
By changing the tax structure, closing loopholes, etc. And by getting money out of politics, no hidden money PACs and such. They only serve to exacerbate the problem. Will that solve everything? No. We’re part of a global marketplace now and are having to compete with low cost labor across the globe. The reality is low skilled American workers simply can’t demand much.

What you don’t do is try to promise people unrealistic things and say the rich will pay for it and they’ll be no consequences. Reality is if you want to implement Ocasios proposals everyone is going to have to be paying for it heftily, and we have no idea what the consequences will be (and there will be plenty).
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
By changing the tax structure, closing loopholes, etc. And by getting money out of politics, no hidden money PACs and such. They only serve to exacerbate the problem.

What you don’t do is try to promise people unrealistic things and say the rich will pay for it and they’ll be no consequences. Reality is if you want to implement Ocasios proposals everyone is going to have to be paying for it heftily, and we have no idea what the consequences will be (and there will be plenty).

She said she'd fight for those things. She didn't promise them & nobody would believe her if she did. OTOH, it's pretty remarkable how conservatives have sorta forgotten about Trump's promises wrt healthcare, for example, even as he & the GOP move away from them entirely.

You dodge the central point entirely which is how middle America gets a bigger piece of the pie if not via more socialistic means. The short answer is that we don't & the last 35 years prove it to be true.
 
Mar 11, 2004
23,250
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I do like that you ignore why that situation happened. Obama didn't tank the economy a few months before he took office. The debt jumped in order to deal with the situation that Republicans put us in. You seem to want to argue that the Democrats didn't do enough while ignoring (or giving a free pass to) how overwhelmingly it was Republican policy and actions that caused that. Thanks to idiocy like that, Democrats rarely if ever have the power to override Presidential veto, or even get things cleanly through Congress in the first place. When they did, they chose to try to help health care and even then tried to compromise with Republicans (and then got demonized for it, by people that in the past year finally realized "oh, that was a good thing for millions of Americans, holy shit, and Republicans want to just tear it to pieces just because").

I like how you also ignore the mountain of debt that Reagan and his policy (that Republicans keep trying to push even knowing fully how terrible it is). Or how Clinton was getting it under control, only for Republicans to enact a ticking time bomb.

Likewise, economic knowledge supports the actions taken by Obama after that. That's not to say he was perfect, but there was no support for cutting the military (aside from the military itself...which openly said "hey we know the situation is bad, how about you cutting our funding some to help ease things for the country? You can start with the fucking Abrams tank which we just don't use enough to keep making more and more and more of"), the ACA was properly funded, he adjusted the tax rates (by increasing it for the highest ones), tried to work with Republicans on many issues that would have helped (but the Republicans just refused and kept trying to blame him). That you're acting like he was as fiscally irresponsible as Republicans because he had to deal with the actual consequences of their policies is straight up stupid and dishonest.

Don't forget that them just throwing the fucking fit about the debt ceiling in 2011 costs us billions of dollars.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_debt-ceiling_crisis_of_2011

The crisis sparked the most volatile week for financial markets since the 2008 crisis, with the stock market trending significantly downward. Prices of government bonds ("Treasuries"), rose as investors, anxious over the dismal prospects of the US economic future and the ongoing European sovereign-debt crisis, fled into the still-perceived relative safety of US government bonds. Later that week, the credit-rating agency Standard & Poor's downgraded the credit rating of the United States government for the first time in the country's history, though the other two major credit-rating agencies, Moody's and Fitch, retained America's credit rating at AAA. The Government Accountability Office (GAO) estimated that the delay in raising the debt ceiling increased government borrowing costs by $1.3 billion in 2011 and also pointed to unestimated higher costs in later years.[1] The Bipartisan Policy Center extended the GAO's estimates and found that delays in raising the debt ceiling would raise borrowing costs by $18.9 billion.[2]
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,538
50,719
136
Lol

Bush and Trump aren’t either, but let’s not kid ourselves..

If you’re laughing that means you missed the economic lesson of the last ten years. Had Obama cut spending to be ‘fiscally responsible’ the United States would be in a worse debt situation now.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,538
50,719
136
I voted for a Democrat knowing the same. We haven’t had a legitimately fiscally responsible person near the White House in who knows how long. Presented with one I’d wear the buttons and fly their flag in my yard. Republicans slashing taxing is fiscally irresponsible. Democrats promising shit they can’t pay for is fiscally irresponsible. Ocasio-Cortez is fiscally irresponsible.

Medicare for all as she advocates is fiscally more responsible than keeping our current system and everyone who has read the literature knows it.

Regardless you chose to vote for Donald Trump, someone who made vastly, wildly more fiscally irresponsible promises than Hillary Clinton did. If you actually cared about fiscal responsibility you would have voted for Clinton. It is clear in reality you do not.

And she also bans the press. Cheers

This is absolute ridiculous stupidity. Every politician holds closed events constantly and you have never made a thread complaining about them.

Until you complain about the tens of thousands (yes, tens of thousands) or closed events actual officials have held in recent years complaining about her having a closed town hall is ridiculous nonsense and you know it.
 
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UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
19,275
1,361
126
You dodge the central point entirely which is how middle America gets a bigger piece of the pie if not via more socialistic means. The short answer is that we don't & the last 35 years prove it to be true.


Like I said reform the tax code. And cut gov spending so that the budget doesn’t need to be so large. Cut military spending dramatically. Raise the retirement age and I’m fine with means testing too. Stop standardized testing and incentivize high schools to work in their local communities with the community colleges to put half the students on a path toward a trade instead of pretending everybody goes to college.

We can’t subsidize the middle class, there’s no way that’s sustainable (plus subsidizing the lower class on top of it). Best we can do is create a competitive playing field.
 
Jul 9, 2009
10,728
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Yea, because our economy, infrastructure, is EXACTLY the same as Venezuela so ANY change to ANY domestic policy will result in the horror stories you trot out. Another fuck-tard victim of Fox news.
She'll certainly get the whole Socialist movement on it's way, it will just take longer but as we all know
"The problem with socialism is that you eventually runout of other people's money."
 
Jul 9, 2009
10,728
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Are you claiming that Republicans have never banned the press from a public event? Or that Trump's populist rhetoric (including that the free press is the enemy of the American People) doesn't sound at all like Chavez's did?
No.
 
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