How about the whole "you, along with the rest of us, have been defrauded" point?
Wall of text with no real point.
Outside of 'your ethier with us or against us'.
I'm not with your violent mob rule.
Until laws are established that completely eliminate donation-based campaign financing and monetary lobbying of every sort, going after the money and those who have it is f'n pointless.
It's the LAWS that need to be changed. It needs to become criminal for ANY politician to accept ANY sort of monetary or material gift from ANYONE.
That is why screaming at the wealthy is f'n pointless -- it does nothing to address those who are actually corrupt (politicians), or the mechanisms (laws) that allow them to be corrupted.
So...
1. SEVERE Campaign finance reform (eliminate PACs, all candidates are given equal campaign funds, etc)
2. Limit ALL lobbying to face-to-face meetings and written submissions wherein NO monetary or material gifts are authorized -- none, nothing, nada... no exceptions!
3. SEVERE punishments (extended federal imprisonment) for anyone -- politician OR "lobbyist" -- who violates any of the above.
The solution to our mess is really that simple. Nail those three points, and you'll essentially cut Wall Street and other SIGs out of the equation.
Answer me this: how does yelling at wealthy people accomplish any of the above?
Really? Where in the Constitution does it say you can assemble even if it breaks the law? There are reasonable limits, as has been outlined by the USSC. You might want to check that out sometime.
That's all well and good but you're changing the subject. Your post to which I replied attempted to dismiss OWS as a failure compared to other grass roots movements for change (e.g., civil rights, Vietnam). I pointed out that OWS has only been at it a couple of months and asked how much progress the other movements made in that amount of time. That's the question you seem to be dodging.I'm not running from anything, I'm still just trying to figure out why you guys are waging war on the "1%" when the guys in DC are the ones with their hands out. No one's holding a gun to the heads of the senators and congressmen, making them take bribes and contributions. Why hasn't DC passed comprehensive campaign finance reform? Because they want the payoffs. There's a whole lot of money people in the world, but comparatively few honorable men and women. You can't shut out the cash, so you find the people who aren't as susceptible.
I call 'em like I see 'em. If the wool fits ...Well, an occasional use might suffice, although some abuse the metaphor... including many people who are rabid supporters of OWS like Bowfinger (used the term 5 times in OWS threads in 2 weeks) among others.
Give me a damned break. I don't see a time limit in the Constitution, I don't see a damned thing about "free speech zones", I don't see a damned thing about requiring permission to exercise what is supposedly a basic right
Your post that I responded to talked about the National Guard being sent in to clear people out and how you thought it would make for entertaining TV. Don't lecture me on Constitutional rights when you obviously don't believe in them or only believe in them when they suite your cause.
I happen to be one of those assholes that agrees with a persons right to do something even if I disagree with the message. (psst, that is one of the biggest reasons for things like the 1st amendment, "popular" generally doesn't need protecting)
Damned right it would make for a good TV mini-series. You can't just block the whole street and sidewalk and expect that it's just your "Constitutional right". There are the rights of others to consider too, like those who are trying to earn a living and those who just want to walk through that area.Give me a damned break. I don't see a time limit in the Constitution, I don't see a damned thing about "free speech zones", I don't see a damned thing about requiring permission to exercise what is supposedly a basic right
Your post that I responded to talked about the National Guard being sent in to clear people out and how you thought it would make for entertaining TV. Don't lecture me on Constitutional rights when you obviously don't believe in them or only believe in them when they suite your cause.
I happen to be one of those assholes that agrees with a persons right to do something even if I disagree with the message. (psst, that is one of the biggest reasons for things like the 1st amendment, "popular" generally doesn't need protecting)
That's all well and good but you're changing the subject. Your post to which I replied attempted to dismiss OWS as a failure compared to other grass roots movements for change (e.g., civil rights, Vietnam). I pointed out that OWS has only been at it a couple of months and asked how much progress the other movements made in that amount of time. That's the question you seem to be dodging.
You have three options, from my perspective:
1. Show us that these movements had accomplished more at two months
2. Acknowledge your criticism was unreasonable
3. Keep running
I'm all for an open discussion of OWS, with valid concerns and criticisms on the table. The problem is the OWS bashers seem to rely almost exclusively on lies and innuendo rather than fact and reason. It's not at all that OWS is above criticism, but let's try to make it honest and informed criticism. We don't need more, "Herp derp, OWS hates success" stupidity. The Spideys and Michals of P&N have that covered.
I get it. You don't believe in personal property or supporting the rights of property. Typical communist. How very, very typical. Come occupy my property, I dare you.
Remember one of the tenants of communism is the abolition of personal property.
Puns like that show the lowest form of intelligence. Before I insult you further, I'd at least like to make sure you're older then 15.
Whatever, "is now" or "will be", you're still dodging the question. OWS is in its infancy. It's still growing and evolving. At two months since it began, how does OWS compare to the other grass roots movements you consider successful? They all took years. Can you show they were better than OWS at the two-month point or not?No, I said it will be a failure, because it doesn't address the actual problem. You don't stop the drug trade by halting the import of drugs, and you don't end the corruption in DC by stopping the influx of money. If a politician has their hand out, someone's going to put cash in it. It's not about who has money, it doesn't have anything to do with the corporations. It's about supply and demand, period.
I call 'em like I see 'em. If the wool fits ...
Edit: I'm flattered you're doting on my every word like that, though I suppose it's also a bit creepy.
Although I do notice that the only people who use the term 'sheep' on here are the absolute craziest of the crazy.
Whatever, "is now" or "will be", you're still dodging the question. OWS is in its infancy. It's still growing and evolving. At two months since it began, how does OWS compare to the other grass roots movements you consider successful? They all took years. Can you show they were better than OWS at the two-month point or not?
I don't think that's right, it's a mix. It's a valid point sometimes made well and sometimes abused. The thing is, telling a sheep they're a sheep rarely helps them.
Bowfinger came up as a user of the phrase, and I think his posts are good, not at all 'crazy'.
I get it. You don't believe in personal property or supporting the rights of property. Typical communist. How very, very typical. Come occupy my property, I dare you.
Remember one of the tenants of communism is the abolition of personal property.
Aww, thanks man. Check's in the mail.I don't think that's right, it's a mix. It's a valid point sometimes made well and sometimes abused. The thing is, telling a sheep they're a sheep rarely helps them.
Bowfinger came up as a user of the phrase, and I think his posts are good, not at all 'crazy'.
Vancouver to Shut Occupy Camp After Woman Found Dead
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204554204577022163160996388.html
Vancouver to Shut Occupy Camp After Woman Found Dead
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204554204577022163160996388.html
Any excuse, huh?
Dodge, dodge, and dodge some more. Where were those other movements at two months in? Did they have the same, sharp focus that led to their eventual success, or were they still finding their way, still developing their message, still getting organized? That's the point, and it's obvious you have no clue what the answer is. You're just engaging in more gratuitous bashing, hoping you can make something stick.OWS can't be successful, because it isn't addressing the actual problem. They can stand out there for the next 10 years and it won't bring about change, except make NYC a bigger sh*thole than it was before.
WTF are you talking about? All I did was post the link FFS since it is related. This is a thread about OWS, I posted a news article relating to one of the camps in Vancouver which the mayor is shutting down, due to the death. Of course you can't handle anything remotely critical of the movement, you jump down anyones throat who has a different opinion than yourself. Get a grip man.
Dodge, dodge, and dodge some more. Where were those other movements at two months in? Did they have the same, sharp focus that led to their eventual success, or were they still finding their way, still developing their message, still getting organized? That's the point, and it's obvious you have no clue what the answer is. You're just engaging in more gratuitous bashing, hoping you can make something stick.