With all due respect, you just don't get it. Meeting with politicians accomplishes exactly jack squat when those politicians have been corrupted by special interest money. They'll just smile and nod and keep doing what they've always done ... selling themselves to the highest bidders. In order to break this cycle, you need broad public outrage, and that means you need public attention. That's what protests do, call attention to the problem.
First, there were far more than 6 cops there. Second, you pick them up by the shoulders/arms and carry them away, slowly, patiently, persistently, and professionally. Yes, it takes time. So what? There was no imminent or urgent danger.How do you carry away one person at a time with interlocked arms? I count like 6 cops there and factor of 10 kids.
No, they are acting in a manner that threatens the corrupt. The state as a whole will be just fine. One can only wonder why you would prefer to support corruption.The people cannot exist without the state, without the state they are not a people, only weak individuals vulnerable to outside threats and one another. You and the protesters are acting in a manner that threatens both the people and the state.
No, they are acting in a manner that threatens the corrupt. The state as a whole will be just fine. One can only wonder why you would prefer to support corruption.
Are you truly that ignorant of the Tea Party? Whatever grass roots origins they might have had, they quickly lost them. They became quite well-funded and had one "news" network promoting them practically 7x24. Further, what have their candidates actually accomplished? It certainly appears to me they've quickly become just like the rest of the D.C. politicians, only maybe a bit more obnoxious in their hypocrisy.How did tea party do it then? Bribe them with a whole pile of money they don't have? I'm pretty sure their candidate voted and passed quite a bit of, arguably stupid, policy that was in line with tea party interests.
Your conjecture is at odds with reality; FUD argument.
Are you truly that ignorant of the Tea Party? Whatever grass roots origins they might have had, they quickly lost them. They became quite well-funded and had one "news" network promoting them practically 7x24. Further, what have their candidates actually accomplished? It certainly appears to me they've quickly become just like the rest of the D.C. politicians, only maybe a bit more obnoxious in their hypocrisy.
As I've said before, their voice is their vote. Everything else is disorderly conduct, trespassing, destruction, insurgency and treason.
pre-planned? LOL.... that you can "pre plan" such a thing just proves my point. They already know the cops are likely going to use excessive force, and so they video tape.
This is why there were riots over the Rodney King beating. It wasn't just about some guy whacked out on pcp getting beaten by cops... the people in that area knew stuff like that was happening regularly and finally got it on tape.
And here's the video I was citing earlier. The person who talked about an officer being arrested must have had another incident in mind. The un-needed pepper spray is @ :50 of the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GABFgtw-bSc
Ah. And here I thought they had a Constitutional right to assemble. Meh, it's just a piece of paper, amirite?As I've said before, their voice is their vote. Everything else is disorderly conduct, trespassing, destruction, insurgency and treason.
Ah. And here I thought they had a Constitutional right to assemble. Meh, it's just a piece of paper, amirite?
First, there were far more than 6 cops there. Second, you pick them up by the shoulders/arms and carry them away, slowly, patiently, persistently, and professionally. Yes, it takes time. So what? There was no imminent or urgent danger.
Ah. And here I thought they had a Constitutional right to assemble. Meh, it's just a piece of paper, amirite?
Seems like a rather romanticized spin on the TP to me.Tea party "small government, cut budgets" mantra was there all along, regardless of funding. Their candidates accomplished the budget clusterfuck to the approval of the people that elected them. They consistently pushed Obama into cutting more gov't budget.
Interesting claim. I assume you can back that up with objective, credible data showing that TP funding and OWS funding are at all comparable? No, of course you can't. You're just repeating the talking points you've been fed without ever attempting to validate them.Also it's not as if Occupy * wasn't funded be the equal and opposite interests on the left side of the spectrum. SEIU, teachers unions etc have vested interested, but politically and financially.
Whereas taking comments out of context only shows your dishonesty, or at least a lack of reading comprehension. This is Nebor's comment to which I replied:You do know there's a difference between a legal and unlawful assembly, right? Refusing police orders to disperse puts you in the latter category.
Making First Amendment claims when it's patently obvious it is not a legal demonstration only shows your disingenuity.
http://www.justia.com/criminal/docs/calcrim/2600/2686.html
Whatever. Peace officers have tremendous authority, but with that authority comes a responsibility to use restraint and act professionally at all times. That you seem to set the bar lower is shameful. The cops in that video appear to me to be using unnecessary force ... not brutal, but more than the minimum necessary, and more than I have seen other officers use in a similar situation. Perhaps Iowa peace officers are simply better trained.Absolutely, and give them a foot rub, back massage and a pat on the head while they're at it. Poor lil' babies are just breaking the law, putting themselves and other people at risk and they just want police officers to carry their lard butts off.
Glad to see you recognize their right to assembly. That's a step forward from your previous remark. Now we just need to teach you that the First Amendment doesn't require one to identify himself to exercise his rights, nor does it require that everybody line up in neat little boxes to satisfy your compulsion to control. Again, your attitude is right at home in a Soviet-style police state. It's definitely not compatible with America's free society.They can assemble, but there are legal ways to do that. Receive permission or a license from the property owner or local government. Register all participants and have all participants readily display proof of registration, like a badge or name tag (this keeps the black bloc and other whackos from co-opting your protest and provides some measure of safety\accountability for rapes, assaults, drugs, etc.)
Glad to see you recognize their right to assembly. That's a step forward from your previous remark. Now we just need to teach you that the First Amendment doesn't require one to identify himself to exercise his rights, nor does it require that everybody line up in neat little boxes to satisfy your compulsion to control. Again, your attitude is right at home in a Soviet-style police state. It's definitely not compatible with America's free society.
/agreeThat said, I support getting all special interest money out of politics, both corporate and union. That money is what corrupts government.
First, there were far more than 6 cops there. Second, you pick them up by the shoulders/arms and carry them away, slowly, patiently, persistently, and professionally. Yes, it takes time. So what? There was no imminent or urgent danger.
Whatever. Peace officers have tremendous authority, but with that authority comes a responsibility to use restraint and act professionally at all times. That you seem to set the bar lower is shameful. The cops in that video appear to me to be using unnecessary force ... not brutal, but more than the minimum necessary, and more than I have seen other officers use in a similar situation. Perhaps Iowa peace officers are simply better trained.
If there was imminent or urgent danger elsewhere, WTF were the police doing butting heads with that group of protestors? That would be incompetent at best, negligent at worst.You make the claim that there was no imminent or urgent danger. How do you know that? There could well have been other hotspots active at the time this was taking place and as we've all been witness to some of the #Occupy protesters are indeed very violent. You also dismiss the fact that those police officers should have been doing their normal jobs of catching murderers, rapists, muggers, car thieves, wife beaters, baby rapers etc. etc. instead of screwing around with damn law breaking protesters whose only reason for breaking laws is to get press coverage.
Yet I've seen that level of professionalism with my own eyes. Go figure. You can rationalize all you want about how you're not lowering the bar, but you're only kidding yourself. While I think Iowa peace officers are indeed well trained, I have no reason to think they're superhuman. If they can behave professionally, so can others.I didn't set the bar lower, you raised it to a shameful, unrealistic level.
Can you point to any past D.C.-only protests that have successfully triggered the kind of fundamental institutional reform we need? Small issues, yes, but something this big? The only ones I can think of were in the 60's ... but they were all over the country, not just in D.C. Similarly, I think if OWS is to be anything more than an exercise in self-gratification, they need to build support all across the country. The best way to do that, probably the only way, is to draw attention at the local level. They have to reach that critical mass where so many Americans are protesting with them, at least figuratively, that they can actually get the crooks in Washington to start doing their jobs instead of lining their pockets./agree
I just don't see how OWS' current efforts and direction can possibly make that happen.
The problem AND solution reside in DC, not on Wall Street...
They have to reach that critical mass where so many Americans are protesting with them, at least figuratively, that they can actually get the crooks in Washington to start doing their jobs instead of lining their pockets.
Yet I've seen that level of professionalism with my own eyes. Go figure. You can rationalize all you want about how you're not lowering the bar, but you're only kidding yourself. While I think Iowa peace officers are indeed well trained, I have no reason to think they're superhuman. If they can behave professionally, so can others.
Not exactly. As has been discussed before in this thread, violence and crime are "the only thing being reported" from the right wing news sites. They have to keep the faithful properly outraged, you know.That's going to be quite difficult considering that the violence is turning the average American against the movement. Violence and crimes are the only thing being reported these days.