#OccupyWallstreet

[Londo_Jowo]

Traders are not 'average workers'. Why on earth do you think any Wall Street CEO would comment on such a thing even if it were true?

You said they were unaffected, and I'm telling you that from the mouths of people I know personally this is not correct.

I don't believe anyone other than the average working stiff has been affected. I still don't believe anyone that's in the 1% has been affected or give a shit about the protests.

 

[Macamus Prime]

MP, they actually did care.

it made their trip to StarFucks that much longer while waiting in line for their Double Half Caf Latte Espresso.

{:-(

Nope, sorry. Most of these Wall Street firms have Starbucks in their buildings - which are guarded by security. Or, their floor kitchen/pantry have a Starbucks bar,... complete with barista(s).

I can't stress this enough; these protests haven't done anything to the very issue(s) they wish to address.

And, the average worker; he/she had to go through some extra security measures to get into their building. Their lunch spots have been taken over. Or, their favorite street meat vendor moved a block or over from where they usually are.

 

[fskimospy]

I don't believe anyone other than the average working stiff has been affected. I still don't believe anyone that's in the 1% has been affected or give a shit about the protests.

What evidence are you basing this on?

 

[spidey07]

DSF, so if Bush dispensed 70% more of the funding over Obama, and he was only at it 3 months compared to Obama's 3 years......


I am confused here. What was your POINT?



BTW, word on the street, "Homeland Security" had a hand in planning the dispersments of the protest sites.....

http://wonkette.com/tag/pt-homeland-is-what-the-nazis-called-it-too/

Well I posted some of the protesters had IEDs so why shouldn't they be involved?

 

[Bowfinger]

It depends on what you mean by administration. Presumably you mean the administration of public funding disbursements? In that case both administrations had an equal level of responsibility.

He's just being dishonest. Here was Spidey's original comment that started this particular tangent:

Did Obama admin TARP? Yes. Why aren't the protesters focusing their anger on this president?

Because this entire thing is to take blame off the president and attempt to focus it on the bourgeois. Useful idiots, all of them.

To anyone with basic English comprehension skills, Spidey is insinuating that Obama, and Obama alone is responsible for TARP. He doesn't even acknowledge Congress' role, let alone Bush's. My sole point was that this was wrong.

DSF didn't bother to consider the context of my reply. He didn't bother to note that one of "his team" made a false insinuation. He loves his partisan attacks and jumped in guns blazing. Unfortunately for DSF, since he didn't bother to aim first, all he hit was his own feet.

The fact remains that TARP crossed party lines. Whether one likes it or not, according to those who understand economics far better than anyone here, it was necessary to avoid far more substantial disruption to America's economy.

 

[Ninjahedge]

MP, they closed down areas in BPC to all non-workers recently (the same guys that own Zucotti).

Many there are pissed, or at the very least disappointed.

They site "ranging mobs" but none has actually been reported anywhere. Oh, bloomberg is also siting that the group at Zucotti was "collecting weapons".... no proof there either.

Just one thing after another....

 

[Nebor]

What a crock. Your "strict, powerful government" has become nothing but hired mall cops for the elite. It may be strict with the serfs, but it does virtually nothing to reign in the abusive lords. We need to restore government to representing the people as a whole, not just the few who have millions of dollars to bribe our elected representatives [sic].

I'm saying we don't HAVE a strict, powerful government. But we need one to combat the systematic corruption that you're worried about. Maybe taking money out of politics would help. Maybe taking voting and politics out of government would help more.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

So wait then, you stated earlier that the banks bailed out by Bush had largely repaid their loans, showing that he was a better administrator. The majority of those loan repayments (if not all?) took place while Obama was administering the program however. So are you then saying that Obama shares the credit for the repayment of the loans? Wait, let me guess. Bush gets credit for the good parts that took place during Obama's tenure and Obama gets credit for the bad parts.

Furthermore, what exact legal and regulatory actions do you believe Obama should have undertaken to more effectively administer TARP, and what part of the regulatory framework for the deal was passed under Obama that you disagree with?

Is it safe for me to assume that you agree that Obama did indeed have the bulk of the responsibility for administering TARP and that the conversation has now moved on to effectiveness?

If this is the case, let's contast their effectiveness.

Adminisration of these loans starts with who they actually chose to loan money to and evaluation of the default risk involved. Bush's loans were paid back with interest...what about Obama's loans ($150B committed and only $13B paid back)? Hmmm...not so good.

TARP was primarily intended to prevent collapse of our banking and financial system. Most of Bush's loans were used this way ($194B)...Obama, not much ($11B).

Please tell me why a good admistrator would refuse to accept TARP loan repayments (with interest) from several banks. Hmmm...that's odd.

Also, why would an effective administrator refuse to implement or only partially implement 20 of SIGTARP’s recommendations for basic transparency and accountability in the operations of TARP that we now know was fraught with moral hazard potential? Hmmmm.

For the record, many (e.g. OWS types) falsely believe that TARP was a Wall Street handout given by those evil Republicans to their rich cronies and that taxpayers got ripped off by these greedy banks...oblivious to the fact that TARP legislation was pushed by Democrats. Oblivious that those loans to "Wall Street" made by Bush have already been paid back with interest. The loans Obama chose to make....well now, that's a different story.

 

[senseamp]

That's some Wall Street accounting if you believe that Bush part of TARP has been paid back. Bush bailed out AIG. That funneled hundreds of billions to save the banks from what would have been enormous counter-party losses on bets insured by AIG. That money has not been paid back.

 

[spidey07]

More isolated incidents, including one protester fapping in front of kids.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/11/occupy-la-five-charged-with-crimes.html

Five people at the Occupy L.A. encampment have been charged with separate crimes, including a man who allegedly exposed himself and commited a sex act in front of a child, officials said Tuesday.

Angele Chaidez, 21, faces one count of lewd conduct and one count of indecent exposure for allegedly exposing himself and masturbating in front of several people, including children, Friday on the south steps of City Hall, said prosecutors with the L.A. city attorney's office.

That same day, Zachary Isaac, 21, allegedly entered a woman's tent and called her “Satan.” After the woman asked Isaac to leave, he allegedly punched her in the face with a closed fist. Prosecutors charged him with one count of battery resulting in injury.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

He's just being dishonest. Here was Spidey's original comment that started this particular tangent:


To anyone with basic English comprehension skills, Spidey is insinuating that Obama, and Obama alone is responsible for TARP. He doesn't even acknowledge Congress' role, let alone Bush's. My sole point was that this was wrong.

DSF didn't bother to consider the context of my reply. He didn't bother to note that one of "his team" made a false insinuation. He loves his partisan attacks and jumped in guns blazing. Unfortunately for DSF, since he didn't bother to aim first, all he hit was his own feet.

The fact remains that TARP crossed party lines. Whether one likes it or not, according to those who understand economics far better than anyone here, it was necessary to avoid far more substantial disruption to America's economy.

Did you happen to see that little word between "Obama" and "TARP" in Spidey's post you quoted...don't be such a blithering idiot. But just in case it's too difficult...I'll bold it for you.

Did Obama admin TARP? Yes. Why aren't the protesters focusing their anger on this president?

Because this entire thing is to take blame off the president and attempt to focus it on the bourgeois. Useful idiots, all of them.

He never insinuated that Obama was solely responsible for TARP. If anyone has a problem with basic English comprehension skills...it's you.

The fact of the matter is that Obama played a significant role with TARP and, in my opinion, Spidey asked a very legitimate question.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

What evidence are you basing this on?

So now traders and bank staff are in the 1%. I don't buy it. I realize you want this movement to make a difference however, as I've stated before the only people who are being affected are average working stiffs and not the CEO's/1%ers.

I can't wait to see the fallout should the OWS movement move forward with #Occupy Subway. I'm sure that the CEO's/1%ers use the subway as well and the average working stiffs will be unaffected.

 

[halik]

Traders are not 'average workers'. Why on earth do you think any Wall Street CEO would comment on such a thing even if it were true?

You said they were unaffected, and I'm telling you that from the mouths of people I know personally this is not correct.

I'm a trader; the average comp certainly isn't Rolls Royce / G-V level or anywhere near it. HENRY for the most part, and generally not in 1% in income and certainly not in wealth. Much closer to doctors/lawyers/professional degrees than private islands and city-block yachts.

Also you work every market day and whack hours depending on which market you cover.

 

[Ausm]

Pregnant woman sent to the hospital and a 84 year old woman pepper sprayed in Seattle.

http://news.yahoo.com/pregnant-teen-elderly-woman-among-pepper-sprayed-113054448.html

 

[spidey07]

Pregnant woman sent to the hospital and a 84 year old woman pepper sprayed in Seattle.

http://news.yahoo.com/pregnant-teen-elderly-woman-among-pepper-sprayed-113054448.html

You can't just decide to block streets. You will be told to move and if you don't, out comes the tear gas and pepper spray. They don't value other peoples rights in anyway shape or form.

Seattle police said plenty of verbal warnings were given to demonstrators attempting to block intersections and streets during rush hour.

 

[Fern]

I'm a trader; the average comp certainly isn't Rolls Royce / G-V level or anywhere near it. HENRY for the most part, and generally not in 1% in income and certainly not in wealth.

Also you work every market day and whack hours depending on which market you cover.

The fact he used the term "trader" leads me to believe he doesn't know what he's talking about.

I have clients who are Wall Street types. I say "types" because after 911 they left Manhatten and work elsewhere. BTW: I'm talking about .1%, not 1%. I'm talking about people who make more, much more, than $1M a year.

And if you're looking to hold your protest where the uber wealthy are - Wall Street ain't it. Yeah, there are some very high earners working there, but IMO about all that Wall Street has going for it in terms of this protest is convenience for the protesters.

Fern

 

[blankslate]

The payback of TARP may just be creative accounting...

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/242731/did-tarp-money-really-get-paid-back-kevin-d-williamson

 

[Bowfinger]

Did you happen to see that little word between "Obama" and "TARP" in Spidey's post you quoted...don't be such a blithering idiot. But just in case it's too difficult...I'll bold it for you. ...

Conveniently changing the subject away from what I bolded: "Obama", "this president" (singular), "the president" singular. No suggestion, or even basic recognition, that if the protestors were taking aim at TARP, they should be focusing their anger on "the Presidents", or "Congress and the Presidents", or "our D.C. politicians", or any other phrase that didn't lay the blame solely on Obama. Why not? Because he was insinuating it was all Obama's fault (which is who he typically blames for almost everything).

If anyone has a problem with basic English comprehension skills...it's you.

Says the guy who twisted a simple factual statement -- "it was GW Bush who signed TARP" -- into this aborted misinterpretation of English: "But hey...we all know it was really Bush's fault." ROFL!

But wait, there's more! The real howler comes a few posts later when you said, "I agree that Bush signed the bill." So you now agree with what I said in the first place. I'm not sure how to take that. You were for it before you were against it? But hey...we all know it was really Bush's fault? Or maybe: Further evidence you're far more interested in picking fights than having discussion.

Methinks you're running out of feet.

The fact of the matter is that Obama played a significant role with TARP and, in my opinion, Spidey asked a very legitimate question.

It's obvious you and Spidey have much in common. I'm sure he'll draw comfort knowing somebody does.

 

[fskimospy]

The fact he used the term "trader" leads me to believe he doesn't know what he's talking about.

I have clients who are Wall Street types. I say "types" because after 911 they left Manhatten and work elsewhere. BTW: I'm talking about .1%, not 1%. I'm talking about people who make more, much more, than $1M a year.

And if you're looking to hold your protest where the uber wealthy are - Wall Street ain't it. Yeah, there are some very high earners working there, but IMO about all that Wall Street has going for it in terms of this protest is convenience for the protesters.

Fern

Oh I know exactly what I'm talking about. What would you like to know?

 

[fskimospy]

I'm a trader; the average comp certainly isn't Rolls Royce / G-V level or anywhere near it. HENRY for the most part, and generally not in 1% in income and certainly not in wealth. Much closer to doctors/lawyers/professional degrees than private islands and city-block yachts.

Also you work every market day and whack hours depending on which market you cover.

That's not what I said though, of course all traders aren't in the top 1%, but a significant portion of the wealthiest or highest income earning people in the US are involved in that area. ie: not all traders in the 1%, but a bunch of the 1% are traders. Average pay is somewhere in the mid 100k range, but there are a significant number of people who earn far, far more.

 

[Bowfinger]

I'm saying we don't HAVE a strict, powerful government. But we need one to combat the systematic corruption that you're worried about. Maybe taking money out of politics would help. Maybe taking voting and politics out of government would help more.

When the mob owns the cops, you don't fix the problem by giving the cops bigger guns. You fix it by cleaning house, both the mob and the cops. You seem quite content to let the robbers keep their loot, however, because they got it "legally" -- according to the cops they bought.

 

[monovillage]

Pregnant woman sent to the hospital and a 84 year old woman pepper sprayed in Seattle.

http://news.yahoo.com/pregnant-teen-elderly-woman-among-pepper-sprayed-113054448.html

Loses it's punch when you provide the rest of the story.

"Seattle police said plenty of verbal warnings were given to demonstrators attempting to block intersections and streets during rush hour.
"Pepper spray was deployed only against subjects who were either refusing a lawful order to disperse or engaging in assaultive behavior toward officers," Kappel wrote on the department's blog.
Kappel also noted that one man threw an "unknown liquid" at an officer's face and was arrested. The officer was not injured.
In another incident, Kappel said a 17-year-old woman swung a stick at an officer, and as police moved to arrest her, others tried to intervene on her behalf, prompting a blast of pepper spray."

Guess what? When you break the law, whether you're 85 or pregnant you shouldn't try to lay the blame on the police that were trying to stop your criminal acts. It's like trying to blame gravity because you dropped a rock on your toe.

 

[The-Noid]

I don't believe anyone other than the average working stiff has been affected. I still don't believe anyone that's in the 1% has been affected or give a shit about the protests.

I think you're right...

 

[dwell]

MP, they actually did care.

it made their trip to StarFucks that much longer while waiting in line for their Double Half Caf Latte Espresso.

StarFucks, h0h0h0. How original.

So the only thing OWS has accomplished is disrupt local businesses?

 

[Nebor]

When the mob owns the cops, you don't fix the problem by giving the cops bigger guns. You fix it by cleaning house, both the mob and the cops. You seem quite content to let the robbers keep their loot, however, because they got it "legally" -- according to the cops they bought.

The problem's with the mayor and city council, not the cops.