#OccupyWallstreet

[blankslate]

Blankslate, failures of Government still. Private business will do what private business does, I do not hold them to the same standards as those who wish to lead us and seek that kind of "power" over the masses. Also, don't think I'm against the lopping off of heads of "evil" business practitioners. Just that pointing the finger and demanding they change is ignorant of the true problems. Also, you bring Government in line and Private business will soon follow.

You're asking me to give a pass on our "leaders" simply because they're human and I just can't do that. If you don't have the mental constitution to resist corruption you have no place being in public office or any sort of public position of power.

You're asking me to give a pass on the people who run corporations merely because they aren't in government when they are a main contributor to the failings of people in elected office. Why should we just say "Hey, don't be a bad elected official." and then ignore what private interests do to corrupt the system. Ignoring one part of the whole problem is only going to lead to a partial solution.

It's like trying to stop a leaky roof by just putting a bucket under the leak then ignoring the fact that there is a leak.

 

[bfdd]

You're asking me to give a pass on the people who run corporations merely because they aren't in government when they are a main contributor to the failings of people in elected office. Why should we just say "Hey, don't be a bad elected official." and then ignore what private interests do to corrupt the system. Ignoring one part of the whole problem is only going to lead to a partial solution.

It's like trying to stop a leaky roof by just putting a bucket under the leak then ignoring the fact that there is a leak.

blankslate, because you start somewhere and generally starting at the head is a good idea. Where did I say we shouldn't do those things? I'm saying doing that first doesn't correct the issue, it just forces it into hiding. Transparency and accountability of the highest order is required from our Government. If they are willing to sell us out, I'm willing to cut their fucking heads off. There are things in life I hold far above the value of my life and especially the value of other fucking assholes so thinking of them as corpses doesn't really bother me. I completely agree with you that we should also stand up to the "evils" of business, but the best way to do that is to fix our government first. All businesses have to deal with the government just to have the ability to do business. If they knew Government didn't fuck around they would be a bit more likely to play within the rules and boundaries.

PS- I probably would have given more support to OWS if they had actually raided any of the offices of the big banks, to bad they're just wannabe revolutionaries.

 

[blankslate]

My difference with you is that I don't believe that accountability from private industry is a minor concern compared with accountability from public officials right now. There is a reason that corporations are required to release financial statements on a regular basis. They need to be transparent as well. No not always for the same reasons.
However, when it has gotten to where money is speech, then we do need to consider that we can't expect significantly more responsibility from government officials than we expect from business interests.

Quite frankly, the problem with government and their allowing business interests (and labor unions) to unduly influence them has gotten to the point, in my opinion, that you can't fix it by only focusing on what elected officials are doing wrong. The problem needs to be approached from more than one avenue at this stage.

 

[bfdd]

My difference with you is that I don't believe that accountability and private industry never matters. There is a reason that corporations are required to release financial statements on a regular basis. They need to be transparent as well. No not always for the same reasons.

However, the problem with government and their allowing business interests (and labor unions) to unduly influence them has gotten to the point, in my opinion, that you can't fix it by only focusing on what elected officials are doing wrong. The problem needs to be approached from more than one avenue at this stage.

More than one avenue? How? You aren't going to change the game without changing the players, the players insure the game continues. You want real change that comes from blood being spilled. Jefferson laid it out for us years ago. Like I said you start lopping heads off and they'll come in line. Businesses can be "voted" out by us simply not using them, we don't have the same option with Government.

 

[michal1980]

Mainstream media has done their job and confused the populous as to the actual message of the protestors. It just shows how effective this type of propaganda is.

Of course. Blame the messanger.

The truth is OWS has no unified message. No spokes person. nothing. Then you cry that your message is not getting out? Who's fault is that? OWS fault.

 

[IGBT]

the ows message is obvious. Squat. That's it. They are squatters. They have no moral authority or public support.

 

[blankslate]

More than one avenue? How? You aren't going to change the game without changing the players, the players insure the game continues. You want real change that comes from blood being spilled. Jefferson laid it out for us years ago. Like I said you start lopping heads off and they'll come in line. Businesses can be "voted" out by us simply not using them, we don't have the same option with Government.

Arrest the CEOs for bribery while impeaching the elected officials who took money to vote a certain way and any Supreme Court Judges who can be shown to have conflicts of interest when it came to the citizens united need to be removed (if that is at all possible).

I'm not at the point where I am looking for people to lose their lives over the course this country is on yet.

 

[palehorse]

The solution, if it's even feasible, lies in DC, not on Wall Street.

The politicians and laws aren't going to change through osmosis, or as a result of you screaming at their drug dealer.

Wake the f*ck up people. Get on a bus to DC, or STFU and go home...

 

[bfdd]

Arrest the CEOs for bribery while impeaching the elected officials who took money to vote a certain way and any Supreme Court Judges who can be shown to have conflicts of interest when it came to the citizens united need to be removed (if that is at all possible).

I'm not at the point where I am looking for people to lose their lives over the course this country is on yet.

That's trying to change the game without changing the players. That isn't going to happen. The players must be removed in order for the game to be start anew. Like I said, Jefferson laid it out for us, if those who protested truly wanted change the streets would already be red.

blankslate, don't assume I want people to die or whatever. I'm just telling you how it has to and will eventually be done. Killing is never pleasant, it's just sometimes required.

 

[blankslate]

OWS has perhaps too many messages that's their problem rather than a lack of message.

Money in elections, lack of regulation that lead to the necessity of implementing TARP, tax policies that shove money upward, trade policies that move jobs overseas.

Yeah it's hard to organize a message without leaders however putting someone out there provides a person or people who could be bribed, co-opted, or character assassinated. Is refusing to appoint a leader the best solution? I don't know it has many disadvantages.

The truth is the media will cherry pick the people they interview at Occupy in order to push their viewpoint. I'm sure other people have different opinions but I think the media is more likely to choose the more fringe members to interview

 

[blankslate]

The solution, if it's even feasible, lies in DC, not on Wall Street.

The politicians and laws aren't going to change through osmosis, or as a result of you screaming at their drug dealer.

Wake the f*ck up people. Get on a bus to DC, or STFU and go home...

There's actually talk within the movement of having a large number of people going to Washington D.C. sometime have the thanksgiving recess.

I'm not sure how firm those plans are though.

 

[spidey07]

The solution, if it's even feasible, lies in DC, not on Wall Street.

The politicians and laws aren't going to change through osmosis, or as a result of you screaming at their drug dealer.

Wake the f*ck up people. Get on a bus to DC, or STFU and go home...

The fact is they won't protest democrats or this administration. Why is that?

Oh, that's right. Because it's a far left fringe movement full of communists and socialists. The unions won't dare bite the hand that feeds them as well.

It's really Obama's attempt to deflect attention and anger away from him. Those protesters? Obama voters, every one of them. They are his base. They are...his useful idiots. Every marxist knows how to use them as history has shown.

 

[bfdd]

There's actually talk within the movement of having a large number of people going to Washington D.C. sometime have the thanksgiving recess.

I'm not sure how firm those plans are though.

Why didn't they do that in the first place? They would have garnered far more support if they had kept the aim wide vs naively narrowing it to Wall Street. Ad busters fucked the movement with their anti-consumerism bullshit.

 

[cybrsage]

So? You're kidding right?

In case you aren't... you just admitted that your statement that private industry doesn't own or operate the police; while technically true falls flat on its face when you consider the real world effects of money.

Wait...did you just say politicians cannot prevent themselves from being corrupted?

 

[blankslate]

That's trying to change the game without changing the players. That isn't going to happen. The players must be removed in order for the game to be start anew. Like I said, Jefferson laid it out for us, if those who protested truly wanted change the streets would already be red.

blankslate, don't assume I want people to die or whatever. I'm just telling you how it has to and will eventually be done. Killing is never pleasant, it's just sometimes required.

By the same token you can't change the players when you just remove one class of players. In this case only the government officials taking money from private business interests.

CEO's and people on the corporate boards need to be looked at as well or the game *will* stay the same.

 

[cybrsage]

There's actually talk within the movement of having a large number of people going to Washington D.C. sometime have the thanksgiving recess.

I'm not sure how firm those plans are though.

2 months too late, most people have already written them off as non-bathing nutters.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Here's a message:
"I don't say this lightly, but the consumer is simply an income stream and exploiting that is the purpose of the banking organization."
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/18/us-wallst-disconnect-idUSTRE7AH0Z620111118
This may be a repost, but I would think that quote would be popping up a bit more than it is.

 

[blankslate]

2 months too late, most people have already written them off as non-bathing nutters.

Most people are indifferent to them. That doesn't necessarily imply non-bathing nutters.

In any case better late than never.

 

[blankslate]

Wait...did you just say politicians cannot prevent themselves from being corrupted?

Some can. Many can't.

Do you think we should just ignore the other side of the equation and just slam politicians while allowing people (corporations are people now) to use money to corrupt people in government?

 

[spidey07]

Here's a message:
"I don't say this lightly, but the consumer is simply an income stream and exploiting that is the purpose of the banking organization."
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/18/us-wallst-disconnect-idUSTRE7AH0Z620111118
This may be a repost, but I would think that quote would be popping up a bit more than it is.

And what's wrong with that? It's the truth.

The business of business is to make money. It's not to make you happy or have feely good feelings, the business of any business is to make more money.

 

[momeNt]

And what's wrong with that? It's the truth.

The business of business is to make money. It's not to make you happy or have feely good feelings, the business of any business is to make more money.

Huge problem though when certain businesses, namely banks, are given special government-granted privileges (see: federal reserve/fiat currency). Because they no longer make money the old-fashioned way.

That's what so many conservatives simply don't understand, the situation we are in today either requires a complete banking overhaul to remove government from banking, which will never happen because banks basically run the system (barring a complete collapse), or to have government regulation because private business can't control the kind of power our current monetary system bestows on banks. Neither can government, see my point about banks owning the system. Which leaves us with the reality that nothing will actually get fixed unless there is some sort of an economic collapse!

 

[cybrsage]

Some can. Many can't.

Do you think we should just ignore the other side of the equation and just slam politicians while allowing people (corporations are people now) to use money to corrupt people in government?

They all can, they just refuse to. It is not like alcoholism or being drug addicted. They can say NO, but simply will not.

We should have a law which forces all federal politicians to use federal money for their campaigns and to ban all the PAC, citizens for/against, etc., groups which currently bypass the existing laws.

 

[IGBT]

ows has no point. Yields NO results.

 

[bfdd]

By the same token you can't change the players when you just remove one class of players. In this case only the government officials taking money from private business interests.

CEO's and people on the corporate boards need to be looked at as well or the game *will* stay the same.

Uh... duh? That kind of happens when you decide to change the entire Government in which these entities operate. They have to play by the Governments rules in order to do business there don't they? If the leaders remain honorable to us we won't have the entities run rampant. We'll see to it that they keep the others in check will we not? That's how it fucking works and right now the REAL problem lies with our Federal Government which is allowing everything to happen. So you start there, at the root of the issue. If making people fear death or worse they will stay in check and see that their job is done.

 

[monovillage]

After being booted from in front of Vancouver Art Gallery #Occupy moved to the provincial courthouse.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2011/11/21/bc-occupy-vancouver.html?cmp=rss
It required bulldozers to clean up the mess they left at the art gallery. I guess their plan is to move around in flash mob status until some Canadian official finds enough spine to toss them in jail.

"The protesters remained mostly peaceful, though one was arrested at the new site just after 4 p.m. Police took the 40-year-old man into custody after he allegedly assaulted another member of the Occupy encampment"