#OccupyWallstreet

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Ninjahedge

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2005
4,149
1
91
The point is that IF she disobeyed any officer's lawful order, then it was actually SHE who "did not follow the law" -- hence the possible charge of negligence.

If it can be proven that the police did not lawfully order her to move before taking action, then you'd be correct.

However, I think you already know how it played out, and who it was that actually disobeyed the law...

Does not matter. If she trespassed, that is an infraction, but it did not give the cop the RIGHT to break the rules himself.

One transgression does not absolve the other.
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
201
101
Does not matter. If she trespassed, that is an infraction, but it did not give the cop the RIGHT to break the rules himself.

One transgression does not absolve the other.

What law did he break? She didn't obey a lawful order, he used the force needed to resolve the situation. Problem not found.
 

Ninjahedge

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2005
4,149
1
91
So, exactly what options existed between the REPEATED warnings of "move out of the street now, or you'll be sprayed and arrested," and actually spraying them? Which tactic, technique, or procedure did the officers supposedly skip?

I'm genuinely curious.

Are you that ignorant.

It has been mentioned a dozen times at least.

1st, the threat of pepper spray should never have been used. The analogy being the threat of ANY illegal action does not justify its use (If you do not move, we will shoot you.... OK >bang<).

2nd, the proper, but more difficult method is simply picking them up and dragging them out. You split the arm-link like cops have been taught since before the 60's and you arrest them.

It is not that difficult, why does everyone seem to forget?
 

Ninjahedge

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2005
4,149
1
91
I really doubt you'd be saying the same thing or said the same thing when the protesters were the right to life protesters that were blocking access to clinics.

Please show how many of those protesters have been sprayed, even after attacking doctors and patients.

I really doubt if you'd be saying or said the same thing about the Hillsboro Baptists or any other similar groups when they protest funerals.

Again, show me the numbers. How many have been sprayed? the Baptists have been at least PARTIALLY smart in their protests in that they do not block any public ways and generally rely on long-distance hate to travel for them. I HATE them with all my soul, bjt I will also defend their right to be assholes.

At least I have the same opinion about all of them, that if they break the law, even when protesting, even when proclaiming their non-violence, that the police have the right to use force to remove them and to arrest them. That includes using pepper spray.

You were OK until the bold there. Again, you are TRYINg to equate ANY enforcment with use of ANY means and methods, and the two do not jive.

You do not cut off the legs of a POTENTIAL jaywalker to prevent them fom breaking the law, you do not cut them off AFTERWARDS to prevent it happening again (they broke the law).

you do not use excessive SADISTIC means to "keep the peace".
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
Are you that ignorant.

It has been mentioned a dozen times at least.

1st, the threat of pepper spray should never have been used. The analogy being the threat of ANY illegal action does not justify its use (If you do not move, we will shoot you.... OK >bang<).

It is not illegal for the police to use pepper spray on non-compliant offenders.


2nd, the proper, but more difficult method is simply picking them up and dragging them out. You split the arm-link like cops have been taught since before the 60's and you arrest them.

Which is why pepper spray is now use.
 

Ninjahedge

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2005
4,149
1
91
What law did he break? She didn't obey a lawful order, he used the force needed to resolve the situation. Problem not found.

Excessive force.

You are not allowed to shoot a jaywalker.

He did not "need" to use that level of force.

You do not remodel a house by knocking the entire thing down.
 

Ninjahedge

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2005
4,149
1
91
It is not illegal for the police to use pepper spray on non-compliant offenders.

Yes, it is.

Which is why pepper spray is now use.

No, it isn't.

Pepper spray is to be used on unruly crowds that may pose a danger to the surrounding area. It is a forceful method of dispersal. It is ranked above physical removal and is only used in situations where time is essential, there is a definite risk of safety/harm, and other means CANNOT be used.

This guy got lazy and got his balls off making people scream.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
Are you that ignorant.

It has been mentioned a dozen times at least.

1st, the threat of pepper spray should never have been used. The analogy being the threat of ANY illegal action does not justify its use (If you do not move, we will shoot you.... OK >bang<).

2nd, the proper, but more difficult method is simply picking them up and dragging them out. You split the arm-link like cops have been taught since before the 60's and you arrest them.

It is not that difficult, why does everyone seem to forget?
It is NOT "illegal" for police to use tear gas and pepper spray to break up crowds and effect arrests. Pepper spray is used to lesson a perp's desire and ability to resist, therefore preventing additional bodily injury to either party once the officer(s) move in to effect an arrest.

Please link to any legitimate statute that shows that the officers' use of pepper spray is/was "illegal."
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
Are you that ignorant.

It has been mentioned a dozen times at least.

1st, the threat of pepper spray should never have been used. The analogy being the threat of ANY illegal action does not justify its use (If you do not move, we will shoot you.... OK >bang<).

2nd, the proper, but more difficult method is simply picking them up and dragging them out. You split the arm-link like cops have been taught since before the 60's and you arrest them.

It is not that difficult, why does everyone seem to forget?

It's been mentioned just as many times, don't place yourself in harms way by ignoring the lawful order to disperse and you won't get pepper sprayed or arrested.
 

Ninjahedge

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2005
4,149
1
91
It is NOT "illegal" for police to use tear gas and pepper spray to break up crowds and effect arrests. Pepper spray is used to lesson a perp's desire and ability to resist, therefore preventing additional bodily injury to either party once the officer(s) move in to effect an arrest.

Please link to any legitimate statute that shows that the officers' use of pepper spray is/was "illegal."

http://www.nyc.gov/html/ccrb/pdf/pepperreport.pdf

The spray is designed for use as less-than-lethal force, adequate for incapacitating dangerous or violently resisting suspects.

Patrol Guide 212-95 lists five situations in which an officer may use pepper spray. Pepper spray may be used when a police officer &#8220;reasonably believes&#8221; that it is necessary to:
1) protect himself, or another from unlawful use of force (e.g., assault);
2) effect an arrest, or establish physical control of a subject resisting arrest;
3) establish physical control of a subject attempting to flee from arrest or custody;
4) establish physical control of an emotionally disturbed person (EDP); and
5) control a dangerous animal by deterring an attack, to prevent injury to persons or animals present

The Patrol Guide prohibits the use of pepper spray against subjects who passively resist (e.g., going limp, offering no active physical resistance). It further cautions that if possible, pepper spray should not be used against persons who appear to be in frail health, young children, women believed to be pregnant, or persons with known respiratory conditions.

NYC, I know, but I doubt that the rules differ that greatly for Davis.......
 
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airdata

Diamond Member
Jul 11, 2010
4,987
0
0
Excessive not found. The criminals were given ample time to comply with a lawful command.

The peak of idiocy. If you're so high and mighty about following the law to a T, you'd also be condemning blatantly illegal police actions that have occurred time and time again over the last 2 months.

Those cops that have been caught aren't being disciplined (slap on the wrist) for doing the right thing. And then they're using tactics to prevent people from identifying them so as to circumvent any possible consequences for their actions.

Not saying all cops are bad. But We've seen plenty of examples of cops who aren't fit for duty. They collect a paycheck for drinking coffee and eating donuts and bullshitting with eachother until they can collect pention.

Then when they're put to the test, they are failing over and over. I don't see why you people would be defending the police who are failing. It's not even a debatable topic. These guys getting caught for brutality in some cases are being disciplined because they know they were in the wrong. In other cases the superiors are the ones doing it, so who do the other cops look to for guidance when their superiors are on the front lines cracking skulls?
 

airdata

Diamond Member
Jul 11, 2010
4,987
0
0
Some people on the forums would walk off a 1000ft cliff if there was a law saying you had to do it.
 

airdata

Diamond Member
Jul 11, 2010
4,987
0
0
Took 2 minutes on google.

Why didn't you search it?

Because he's not capable of rational thought. Look at his last 30-40 posts. I'm guessing alot of them are the exact same.

No logical rebuttal to anybodies posts. Just rah rah rah and name calling.
 

Ninjahedge

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2005
4,149
1
91
NP man...

Here's the odd thing. Nobody here was arguing about the arrests... just the means and methods.

These kids were breaking the law, and should have to pay the price for their transgression. But that price should be incarceration (even if no charges are filed in the end). People have to know and respect the authorities and know that they are not allowed to do whatever they want with no consequence.

But they should not be afraid of physical harm if all they are doing is sitting on the ground in protest.

that is what happened in Vietnam (the guy being shot in the head comes to mind) and is what currently goes on in places like China.

it just seems odd to me that people who are so vehemently against nations like China and their treatment of their people are so ready to support similar treatment of our own people by our own authorities....


The key is, that enforcement is always against someone that they do not agree with. that works fine until enough people do not like what YOU are saying and YOU are the next target.
 
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