#OccupyWallstreet

[michal1980]

Dive headfirst into that Bunker O'Denial. Rave a few insults & self serving catch phrases over your shoulder while you're doing so.

The hardest working people I've ever known were often the poorest, and the laziest & luckiest exploiters of other people's efforts some of the best-off. Like I offered, median families would weep tears of joy to pay more taxes on any income they made over $250K/yr, because they'd still end up with 4X the disposable income. They'll trade places with the well-heeled whiners any time.

And I don't recall people who were extremely well off snivelling & carrying on about high taxes prior to Reagan, either- most of those guys had some sense, & some decency, realized just how lucky they were to have what they had, regarding paying big taxes on big money as a privilege & a patriotic duty.

Communist? Really? The tax policies post-WW2 & pre-Reagan were Communist?

Does that mean Joe McCarthy was right, & the last 60 years have just been a plot to fluoridate the water & pollute our precious bodily fluids? OMG! The Horror!

insults?

Wow. Just take a look at your rants. "High income tax whiners are self indulgent and self important crybabies with the greatest sense of entitlement of anybody in this country. I feel for them, I really do- Tears in my eyes as big as horseturds, honest"

Who's throwing out insults?

I'm stating that most of the people whos money you want to take worked very hard for it. Going to school for years, working long hours, making lots of sacrfices. etc etc. as group they pay far more in taxes then they earn in income.

 

[pcgeek11]

Then quit whining about it when they do demand it.

That is not what they are demanding, are you that thick? They are demanding that they drop all charges on everyone that has been arrested/ticketed guilty or not or they will swamp the court system. That is what they are demanding.

I am sure that some should be dropped, likewise there are some that need to be in court. They should allow the system to work. They should not demand that guilty people be excused for their transgressions. That is what I have an issue with.

 

[pcgeek11]

No one has been charged or arrested for tanking the world economy... Why should people be arrested for exercising freedom of speech?

More projection from the real douches.

They weren't arrested for their exercising freedom of speech. They were arrested / ticketed for disorderly conduct etc...

 

[JD50]

Yeah except you did.

Yea I knew the morons would think that, but I was surprised that Eskimo did.

 

[JD50]

Are you seriously trying to compare a group of people who have seen their wealth and personal well being increase enormously, much of it explicitly through government policy, with a race of people that suffered institutional enslavement and discrimination for centuries?

Dude, bad analogy.

Right wing people defend the rich because it is part and parcel with their ideology. They believe that society functions best with a system that would treat the rich the same as the poor in terms of taxation, etc. They generally are very reluctant to have government intervene to redistribute wealth and that probably gives a bit of a bias to the assumption that wealth has been obtained fairly.

The only problem with all this is that our current situation of extreme disparity is a drag on the whole country, the rich included (eventually). Third world levels of inequality like we have retard economic growth.

Sorry, had to run out and didn't have enough time to finish responding. I wasn't trying to make an analogy, I know there's virtually nothing similar between the two things except for the obvious.

My point is, just because you aren't rich doesn't mean that you can't stand up for a perceived injustice against the rich. In your paragraph about right win ideology, you could replace "right wing" with "left wing" and "wealth has been obtained fairly" with "wealth has been obtained unfairly" and it'd be equally as true.

There are plenty of people that aren't brainwashed Republicans that don't want to see the rich demonized, and their social and economic status is irrelevant.

I really don't care enough about P&N any more to put more effort into this, there's morons like Evan and Jhhhhhhhnnnnnnn that will never see beyond their own ideology. I've given up trying to argue with people like that, they'll never change their mind and I have much better things to do nowadays. However, you're reasonable enough to warrant a response.

 

[Jhhnn]

insults?

Wow. Just take a look at your rants. "High income tax whiners are self indulgent and self important crybabies with the greatest sense of entitlement of anybody in this country. I feel for them, I really do- Tears in my eyes as big as horseturds, honest"

Who's throwing out insults?

I'm stating that most of the people whos money you want to take worked very hard for it. Going to school for years, working long hours, making lots of sacrfices. etc etc. as group they pay far more in taxes then they earn in income.

Don't intimate that I'm a communist, and I won't intimate that you're a boot-licking shill, a corporate lackey or an idolator of wealth & privilege with his head ideologically embedded up his ass. Notice that I didn't actually claim that you were any of those things.

Millions of Americans work just as hard & make just as many sacrifices as those who come out on top of the financial pile- they just don't reap as great a reward. There's a lot more to it than just work, with the connection between work & reward having become tenuous, at best. It's not like all the people who lost their jobs in the collapse of Bear Stearns or Lehman didn't work just as hard as their counterparts at Goldman. A great deal of individual welfare depends on circumstances beyond our individual control.

To be perfectly blunt, there wouldn't be any OWS protests if the system worked as well as its defenders claim it does, because those protesters would much rather have productive work, jobs, than all the unfulfilled promises of trickledown economics poked in their eye like a sharp stick.

And it's not like honest hardworking people haven't been provoked into scorn by the arrogance of the leaders of the privileged anti-tax looney tunes brigade, by rightwing talk show personalities claiming that $250K/yr really isn't a lot of money, by Grover Norquist likening progressive income taxes to the holocaust, or Steve Schwarzman offering that raising his taxes by 5% would be like the invasion of Poland.

Nor should reasonable people fail to see the fundamental dishonesty in the position of wealthy people who call for sacrifice by the rest of us while demanding that such sacrifice be made essentially to them, so that they may grow their share of the pie unimpeded by silly concepts such as the common good or even common decency.

 

[First]

Sorry, had to run out and didn't have enough time to finish responding. I wasn't trying to make an analogy, I know there's virtually nothing similar between the two things except for the obvious.

My point is, just because you aren't rich doesn't mean that you can't stand up for a perceived injustice against the rich. In your paragraph about right win ideology, you could replace "right wing" with "left wing" and "wealth has been obtained fairly" with "wealth has been obtained unfairly" and it'd be equally as true.

There are plenty of people that aren't brainwashed Republicans that don't want to see the rich demonized, and their social and economic status is irrelevant.

I really don't care enough about P&N any more to put more effort into this, there's morons like Evan and Jhhhhhhhnnnnnnn that will never see beyond their own ideology. I've given up trying to argue with people like that, they'll never change their mind and I have much better things to do nowadays. However, you're reasonable enough to warrant a response.

Again, except you did. Don't make asinine analogies and people won't call you out on them.

 

[xj0hnx]

Oh wow, what amazing and virtuous citizens. They made insanely risky and irresponsible bets. When they won, they pocketed their winnings. When they lost, they came crying to the government to save them and we did. (because their irresponsibility was basically holding the world economy hostage). So yeah, when you work in a sector where the government guarantees your business against failure and lets you keep your winnings as you please, you get to pay some higher taxes. I love how things so blindingly obvious as this come under 'hating the rich'.

If someone is not angry at the behavior of our investment banks they are either blinded by ideology or they don't know what they're talking about. I was (and still am) for the banking bailout, but what we have done afterwards has not been nearly enough to bring these incredibly irresponsible people to heel.

When you can figure out a way to separate the very large portion of that 1% that actually makes their money through hard work, from the much smaller percentage that made it screwing everyone else, then you might have something to think about, but until then you're just full of it. .9% of that 1% are the people that make this country run, but I guess .01% isn't as catchy a slogan.

 

[HendrixFan]

When you can figure out a way to separate the very large portion of that 1% that actually makes their money through hard work, from the much smaller percentage that made it screwing everyone else, then you might have something to think about, but until then you're just full of it. .9% of that 1% are the people that make this country run, but I guess .01% isn't as catchy a slogan.

Anyone who is profiting from our society at the expense of the remaining 99% falls into the 1%. That is true whether or not they call the shots or not. The rules have been rigged in their favor just the same, whether they had a hand in it or not.

The idea is that we are all better off, economically and socially, when there is a large healthy middle class. Wealth concentration is not a good thing, which is why you usually find it in banana republics. The rules should be changed to help strengthen the majority of the population, and we will all benefit from it.

 

[halik]

Anyone who is profiting from our society at the expense of the remaining 99% falls into the 1%. That is true whether or not they call the shots or not. The rules have been rigged in their favor just the same, whether they had a hand in it or not.

The idea is that we are all better off, economically and socially, when there is a large healthy middle class. Wealth concentration is not a good thing, which is why you usually find it in banana republics. The rules should be changed to help strengthen the majority of the population, and we will all benefit from it.

Wait so anyone making over $380K is profiting at the expense of the others? Pretty sure all surgeons fall in that range...

 

[HendrixFan]

Wait so anyone making over $380K is profiting at the expense of the others? Pretty sure all surgeons fall in that range...

Have you just ignored every chart in this thread that shows all the growth in income has come while the remaining groups wages have stagnated or shrunk when accounting for inflation over the last few decades?

Yes, everything has been geared to profiting at the top at the expense of the middle class. The numbers bear that out, it isn't up for debate. You can debate whether or not it is a good thing to have wealth concentration, but you can't deny it has been occurring for quite some time.

 

[xj0hnx]

Have you just ignored every chart in this thread that shows all the growth in income has come while the remaining groups wages have stagnated or shrunk when accounting for inflation over the last few decades?

Yes, everything has been geared to profiting at the top at the expense of the middle class. The numbers bear that out, it isn't up for debate. You can debate whether or not it is a good thing to have wealth concentration, but you can't deny it has been occurring for quite some time.

Sorry, but that's a crock of shit. The majority of the "1%" are professionals, and business owners that do not "profit at the expense of the 99%" The people you need to direct you angst towards are the ones that are manipulating markets at the expense of the "99%", not the large portion that work, and work hard for a living. Until that's done all this bullshit is, is a bumpersticker.

 

[HendrixFan]

Sorry, but that's a crock of shit. The majority of the "1%" are professionals, and business owners that do not "profit at the expense of the 99%" The people you need to direct you angst towards are the ones that are manipulating markets at the expense of the "99%", not the large portion that work, and work hard for a living. Until that's done all this bullshit is, is a bumpersticker.

That is true whether or not they call the shots or not. The rules have been rigged in their favor just the same, whether they had a hand in it or not.

Read what I said. Actually read it.

The angst is against those that manipulate the markets, and lobby the government to write rules that favor them. The angst is against the republicans for holding up unemployment extensions, which they ultimately voted in favor of, in order to keep tax cuts in place for the wealthiest citizens.

The tax brackets aren't done in a way that makes it exceedingly obvious that it is meant to favor the ultra wealthy, seeing as how you have been confused by it. So they group it with other top earners who coast on the same fumes as the ultra wealthy. The bush tax cuts were designed to cater to the extremely wealthy, but anyone in the top tax bracket saw a huge benefit to it.

That benefit has come at the expense of the rest of the country, including the middle class. Wages have been stagnant for decades while wealth has concentrated upwards. The 99% you want to sweep under the rug works very hard, often times harder than those in the 1%. Because you gotta work smarter, not harder, right?

 

[halik]

Have you just ignored every chart in this thread that shows all the growth in income has come while the remaining groups wages have stagnated or shrunk when accounting for inflation over the last few decades?

Yes, everything has been geared to profiting at the top at the expense of the middle class. The numbers bear that out, it isn't up for debate. You can debate whether or not it is a good thing to have wealth concentration, but you can't deny it has been occurring for quite some time.

Yeah, except that they bucket everyone in the same bucket, while the distribution is extremely skewed towards the top end. Effective tax rate for the very top end has gone down, as they're mostly compensated by capital gains, but the same can't be said for a surgeon making 400K with 150K in med school debt.

 

[HendrixFan]

Yeah, except that they bucket everyone in the same bucket, while the distribution is extremely skewed towards the top end. Effective tax rate for the very top end has gone down, as they're mostly compensated by capital gains, but the same can't be said for a surgeon making 400K with 150K in med school debt.

Absolutely true.

But anyone in the top tax bracket realized the benefit of the bush tax cuts for the lower brackets plus their tax benefit on top of it. Someone in the top tax bracket, certainly the top 1%, has more than enough income that it would be hard to believe that much of their money doesn't make it into the capital gains territory. If they are making $400k a year coupled with $150k in student loan debt, they almost certainly will have a sizable chunk of money coming in via capital gains over the course of the next decade. The same can't be said for the median family of four making $48k a year with $24k in student loan debt and $5k in credit card debt. Especially as you consider the decreasing marginal utility of money that Jhnnn spoke about.

The point remains that the top 1%, be it surgeons or rock stars, have been the beneficiaries of a system that allows or encourages wealth to concentrate at the top. That system is not a good one to have, and it needs to be changed. You don't change it by leaving it alone.

 

[JD50]

Again, except you did. Don't make asinine analogies and people won't call you out on them.

Again, the point was, there's nothing wrong with people sympathizing or sticking up for a group that they aren't a part of and don't have anything in common with. This concept is obviously beyond you. Step away from P&N for a while, the world is not as black and white as you think.

Now I remember why I stopped posting here, some of you are so stuck on your side...I won't make that mistake again, later Evan.

 

[xj0hnx]

Read what I said. Actually read it.

I did actually read it, it's still BS. Sorry, but I am never going to support punishing people that actually work, and have made a success of themselves.

The angst is against those that manipulate the markets, and lobby the government to write rules that favor them.

That'd be fine if it were true, but it's not, if it were then they would be chanting "Eat the .01%"

The tax brackets aren't done in a way that makes it exceedingly obvious that it is meant to favor the ultra wealthy, seeing as how you have been confused by it. So they group it with other top earners who coast on the same fumes as the ultra wealthy. The bush tax cuts were designed to cater to the extremely wealthy, but anyone in the top tax bracket saw a huge benefit to it.

That benefit has come at the expense of the rest of the country, including the middle class. Wages have been stagnant for decades while wealth has concentrated upwards. The 99% you want to sweep under the rug works very hard, often times harder than those in the 1%. Because you gotta work smarter, not harder, right?

See, you can't even do it, separate those that have made it, and those that game the system. A lot of those people you seem to think don't work as hard as the "99%" put in more work in a week than most int he 99% do in a month. My dad would be considered one of the evil "1%", and that fucker puts in 16-20 hours a day 7 days a week, and that isn't uncommon for a lot of professionals.

I totally agree with you that there is a segment of the US worker that gets the shaft, and that there are some that are reaping the benefits of fucking over everyone else, but your mistake is, and why this isn't going to go anywhere, is lumping in the truly hard working, and successful with those parasites.

 

[HendrixFan]

I did actually read it, it's still BS. Sorry, but I am never going to support punishing people that actually work, and have made a success of themselves.

You choose to punish people who actually work, but due to the neat banana republic we have created they have not been a success. How about we work on ending concentration of wealth, you know, founding father principles, and try and strengthen the middle class? Taxation back to Reagan levels is hardly "punishing" people. And you are an absolute idiot for thinking 99% of the country doesn't "actually work".

That'd be fine if it were true, but it's not, if it were then they would be chanting "Eat the .01%"

Who do you think they are referring to exactly? You think they are trying to invoke change for those poor top 1% wage earners while making sure they leave the ultra wealthy unscathed? Do you really believe that or are you just creating a strawman?

See, you can't even do it, separate those that have made it, and those that game the system. A lot of those people you seem to think don't work as hard as the "99%" put in more work in a week than most int he 99% do in a month. My dad would be considered one of the evil "1%", and that fucker puts in 16-20 hours a day 7 days a week, and that isn't uncommon for a lot of professionals.

Those work hours are very common for those in bad situations, hyperbole aside (I know your dad doesn't leave 4 hours a day 7 days a week for sleep, commute and eating). You have an astounding lack of understanding of the current socio-economic climate if you don't realize that. Those at the bottom work very hard, and it is wrong/amoral/insulting/naive/whatever to insinuate that the reason 99% of the population makes less money than the remaining 1% is because of laziness.

In the earlier post that I repeated and bolded I separated "those that have made it and those that game the system". Those that have made it are beneficiaries of those who have rigged the system. They unintentionally are riding on the coattails. It doesn't make them "evil", it just makes them beneficiaries of a system that is destroying the country. As such, changes to fix the problem will include pulling back on the things they were unwitting beneficiaries of. It isn't a matter of jealousy like spidey likes to paint it, it is simply a practical and fair approach.

I totally agree with you that there is a segment of the US worker that gets the shaft, and that there are some that are reaping the benefits of fucking over everyone else, but your mistake is, and why this isn't going to go anywhere, is lumping in the truly hard working, and successful with those parasites.

No, you are just buying into the silly strawman that the parasites have put up. They are shielding themselves with the inconsequential of that 1%, propping them up as the victims in all this. By appealing to "hardworking and successful" people (of which there are more than 1%) they hope they can drum up enough support to quiet this little protest.

The system is broken and has been for some time. Wealth is being concentrated at the top. It needs to be fixed before we slide completely into being a banana republic.

 

[Phokus]

I guess for the same reason anyone defends someone that isn't like themselves if they feel like that other group is being poorly treated. Why don't people understand this?

50 years ago - why do white people so staunchly defend black people?

"The top 1% today: like black people 50 years ago"

You're literally retarded

 

[the DRIZZLE]

You choose to punish people who actually work, but due to the neat banana republic we have created they have not been a success. How about we work on ending concentration of wealth, you know, founding father principles, and try and strengthen the middle class? Taxation back to Reagan levels is hardly "punishing" people. And you are an absolute idiot for thinking 99% of the country doesn't "actually work".



Who do you think they are referring to exactly? You think they are trying to invoke change for those poor top 1% wage earners while making sure they leave the ultra wealthy unscathed? Do you really believe that or are you just creating a strawman?



Those work hours are very common for those in bad situations, hyperbole aside (I know your dad doesn't leave 4 hours a day 7 days a week for sleep, commute and eating). You have an astounding lack of understanding of the current socio-economic climate if you don't realize that. Those at the bottom work very hard, and it is wrong/amoral/insulting/naive/whatever to insinuate that the reason 99% of the population makes less money than the remaining 1% is because of laziness.

In the earlier post that I repeated and bolded I separated "those that have made it and those that game the system". Those that have made it are beneficiaries of those who have rigged the system. They unintentionally are riding on the coattails. It doesn't make them "evil", it just makes them beneficiaries of a system that is destroying the country. As such, changes to fix the problem will include pulling back on the things they were unwitting beneficiaries of. It isn't a matter of jealousy like spidey likes to paint it, it is simply a practical and fair approach.



No, you are just buying into the silly strawman that the parasites have put up. They are shielding themselves with the inconsequential of that 1%, propping them up as the victims in all this. By appealing to "hardworking and successful" people (of which there are more than 1%) they hope they can drum up enough support to quiet this little protest.

The system is broken and has been for some time. Wealth is being concentrated at the top. It needs to be fixed before we slide completely into being a banana republic.

I agree with your assessment of the situation but there are alternatives to raising the marginal income tax rates to hit the people that actually need to be hit without be punitive to professionals that have little in common with the ultra rich such as raising the capital gains tax.

 

[HendrixFan]

I agree with your assessment of the situation but there are alternatives to raising the marginal income tax rates to hit the people that actually need to be hit without be punitive to professionals that have little in common with the ultra rich such as raising the capital gains tax.

Indeed. Capital gains should certainly be highest on the list. Raising the marginal rate 5% wouldn't be punitive though, especially since they have benefited greatly (statistically speaking) from the tax policy of the last few decades. It certainly shouldn't be a one size fits all approach to reversing this concentration of wealth we have witnessed.

 

[halik]

Indeed. Capital gains should certainly be highest on the list. Raising the marginal rate 5% wouldn't be punitive though, especially since they have benefited greatly (statistically speaking) from the tax policy of the last few decades. It certainly shouldn't be a one size fits all approach to reversing this concentration of wealth we have witnessed.

We've gone from 33%/31% cap gains in the top bracket to 15%. It's far from surprising to see income gap grow with that in place


http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxdata/show/2088.html

 

[CADsortaGUY]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuFQuEwJ5xI& Sounds like some of the morons who post here. Che, Mao, Stalin, Marx - lol

 

[Phokus]

1 Marine stands up to dozens of police officers near Times Square. The police look like they're going to shit their pants LOL, just LOOK at their faces.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmEHcOc0Sys&feature=player_embedded#!

 

[CADsortaGUY]

1 Marine stands up to dozens of police officers near Times Square. The police look like they're going to shit their pants LOL, just LOOK at their faces.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmEHcOc0Sys&feature=player_embedded#!

uh looks to me like they were merely letting him rant. shit their pants? hardly. The guy was yelling at officers who were doing their job. I guess he's a hero to leftist nutbags. Yelling at cops - always a good idea. :roll;