#OccupyWallstreet

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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,709
50,994
136
You're aware what happened during the last Oakland "protest", right? We're not talking Williamsburg hipsters here...

The occupy Wall St. protests aren't just a pile of hipsters from Williamsburg either, they were much larger, and they were dispersed without much violence at all.

EDIT: Oh, and I'd be far more accepting of police brutality if it was inflicted on the hipsters in Williamsburg.
 
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Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
What? Your eternal support for any/all things anti-American?

Yes, it certainly sounds familiar...

Your lying and trolling have gotten to the point only an ignore is appropriate.

I champion the many great things about the US, and support improving others.
 

halik

Lifer
Oct 10, 2000
25,696
1
0
The occupy Wall St. protests aren't just a pile of hipsters from Williamsburg either, they were much larger, and they were dispersed without much violence at all.

Predominantly white, upper middle class 20s college kids vs disenfranchised urban population, 17% living under poverty line with a recent history of rioting. If you don't see the difference, you're intentionally disingenuous.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,709
50,994
136
Predominantly white, upper middle class 20s college kids vs disenfranchised urban population, 17% living under poverty line with a recent history of rioting. If you don't see the difference, you're intentionally disingenuous.

I'm guessing you haven't been to any of the protests. I have been to both the park and to protest marches/events. The demographic you are describing is the actual people camped out in Zucchetti park, not the people who were dispersed by the NYPD without incident. This is way different than the huge swaths of people who are taking part in the various marches, protests, etc.
 

halik

Lifer
Oct 10, 2000
25,696
1
0
I'm guessing you haven't been to any of the protests. I have been to both the park and to protest marches/events. The demographic you are describing is the actual people camped out in Zucchetti park, not the people who were dispersed by the NYPD without incident. This is way different than the huge swaths of people who are taking part in the various marches, protests, etc.


 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,709
50,994
136

Occupy Oakland:



EDIT: Oh, and you used the Brooklyn Bridge photos, which is from before it actually gained much steam/notoriety and really was just made up of a specific demographic. I was at Times Square myself and the demographics were quite different.
 
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Patranus

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2007
9,280
0
0
The funny thing is that these people at bitching about not having a job.
Good luck finding a job with a criminal record.
 

thegimp03

Diamond Member
Jul 5, 2004
7,420
2
81
I was watching a little piers Morgan and Micheal Moore was on with an audience of OWS types. It amazes me how entitled and how little personal responsibility there is out there. My favorite was this woman complaining her house was under water and she could not pay all her bills. Oh BTW her and husband are freaking nurses. I am sorry but blaming bankers when you spent beyond your means is just sad. This was just 1 example of people blaming bankers for bad choices.

http://www.businessinsider.com/michael-moore-one-percent-piers-2011-10

Michael Moore doesn't think he's part of the 1%, guess he could use a math lesson.
 

orbster556

Senior member
Dec 14, 2005
228
0
71
The desire of people to own is always higher than than the ability to pay, something that hasn't changed since forever.

If I understand the gist of your argument, you are suggesting that financial innovation increased the supply of credit while the demand for home mortgages remained constant. As such, the price of credit decreased which, in turn, meant more people, even those unable to pay, took on mortgages.

Although there is an element of truth in this narrative -- assuming I rendered it correctly -- I think it overlooks that the bubble was developing long before any of the large Wall Street banks started getting involved with securitizing home mortgages. There would have been a housing bubble with or without financial innovation. A very good, one that I would recommend, describing the building of the bubble can be found here: http://************/3w7dbja. Although the article is interesting and tackles a number of different issues from a number of different academic fields, the description of the housing bubble proper is from 1236-1266.

Additionally, I think you're characterization of the bank's motivations for entering into the securitization game needs a slight adjustment. Especially where the combined commercial/investment banks were concerned, people inside the banks viewed the innovations as a means to more effectively manage the risk sitting on their balance sheet. As I mentioned earlier, the banks that failed or came close to it, were in such a dire position because they had held onto parts of their products in part because they thought it was a worthwhile asset to hold (and they weren't necessarily wrong as AIG, for example, hardly had to actually payout on hardly any of the CDS contracts to which they agreed indicating that the super senior notes didn't actually stop paying out which is in accord with the theory behind securitization). As the value of the assets declined due to market irrationality -- as mentioned in the paper to which I linked -- the banks couldn't use it as collateral in the repo markets which effectively made them insolvent. The banks were definitely driven by a desire to increase profits. I think also, however, they saw the process as a means to extend more credit -- especially to groups that had traditionally been shut out of the credit markets -- while not significantly increasing their risk portfolio.
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
0
Occupy Oakland:



EDIT: Oh, and you used the Brooklyn Bridge photos, which is from before it actually gained much steam/notoriety and really was just made up of a specific demographic. I was at Times Square myself and the demographics were quite different.

I don't understand the West coast protests to be honest. We're so far away that a march from here would only be for show. Not to mention Wall Street isn't the correct target, the Federal Reserve is if we're talking about financial issues in the USA. All of them stem from the Federal Reserve. None of our financial institutions could exist in their current form without it.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
He's worth $50,000,000. He's better off than most of the Wall Street bailout clowns and made his millions via equally bullshit conditions.
Don't you remember? We learned early in this thread that there are super-special-1%ers that are "acceptable," and therefore exempt from the ire of the 99%.

For some reason, though, only wealthy Leftists qualify for this special status... crazy, isn't it?
 

dwell

pics?
Oct 9, 1999
5,185
2
0
Don't you remember? We learned early in this thread that there are super-special-1%ers that are "acceptable," and therefore exempt from the ire of the 99%.

For some reason, though, only wealthy Leftists qualify for this special status... crazy, isn't it?

Michael Moore, Kanye West, Tom Morello, Talib Kweli, Russell Simmons... The list goes on.

Limousine liberals.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
Michael Moore, Kanye West, Tom Morello, Talib Kweli, Russell Simmons... The list goes on.

Limousine liberals.
...Oprah, George Soros, Oliver Stone, Al Gore, John Kerry, Nancy Pelosi, the Clintons, Peter Lewis, David Gelbaum, Steven Spielberg, Jerry Katzenberg, JJ Abrams, Andy Spahn...

The greatest trick the wealthy Leftists ever pulled was convincing the world they don't exist.
 
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ComradeBeck

Senior member
Jun 16, 2011
262
0
0
Nothing will change until they start fighting back at the corporate media and stop them lying/discrediting average people. Once the debate is based in reality we can as Americans get work done together instead of squabbling over their distracting divisive bullshit.

Until we have a informed public and corporate money out of news Democracy will be incapable of functioning. This is true for the whole broken system/our misguided priorities.
 
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palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
These people are hardly hippies. They are you, and your parents.

http://blogs.desmoinesregister.com/...-and-a-dance-party-saturday/?odyssey=obinsite
They are NOT me, and they're not my parents. Why? Because, their animosity is directed at the wrong f'n people.

If their anger was being voiced in front of Government centers, and their messages were directed at EVERY politician inside those centers, I'd probably join them.

Until then, they are NOT me, and they certainly don't represent "the 99%"...
 

wuliheron

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2011
3,536
0
0
LOL, all you right wing a-holes better get it straight. This is the polite way of demonstrating a vote of no-confidence in the system.

"In a Quinnipiac University poll released Monday, two-thirds of New York City voters said they support the protests. The backers included 81 percent of Democrats and, perhaps more surprisingly, 35 percent of Republicans. And an overwhelming majority, 87 percent, said it’s “okay that they are protesting."

http://slatest.slate.com/posts/201...mainstream_popularity.html

This isn't the first time and its certainly not the last that a widespread demonstration of no-confidence in the government and economic system has produced results. This is as close as anyone really wants to get to reinventing the guillotine and, thankfully, with mass media such crude methods are seldom if ever required anymore. Even those hidden away in their ivory towers and mansions get it when enough people start protesting. Either something constructive gets done to address the situation, or the shit starts hitting the fan.

Homeland security, your local cops, and the military can deal with a lot of problems, but mass revolt and the guillotine are not among them.
 

ComradeBeck

Senior member
Jun 16, 2011
262
0
0
The right-wing in here do not represent the average American, these guys are hardliners for the corporate line and have eaten their shit up for years, it would take 100 whole divisions of cult-deprogramming psychiatrists to save these types of ate-up talk radio moonies. They have no interest in reality, only the fantasy-world set up for them they have hunkered down into against any critical thinking skills. Like drunks too far gone into the bottle, it is all they have left now that they have pissed everyone rational off.
 

DucatiMonster696

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2009
4,269
1
71
The right-wing in here do not represent the average American, these guys are hardliners for the corporate line and have eaten their shit up for years, it would take 100 whole divisions of cult-deprogramming psychiatrists to save these types of ate-up talk radio moonies. They have no interest in reality, only the fantasy-world set up for them they have hunkered down into against any critical thinking skills. Like drunks too far gone into the bottle, it is all they have left now that they have pissed everyone rational off.

Says the guy frothing at the mouth with delusional visions of some phantom communist revolution being imminent. Really you need to take your meds my friend. If the silent majority in this nation were to indeed rise up and become violent you'd wouldn't know what hit you at all when you try to reach into their pockets to steal from them.
 
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Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Still looking for the anti-American forces behind OWS? Look no further than the creator(s) of the entire event...
"America, the great liberator, is in desperate need of being liberated from itself -- from its own excesses and arrogance. And the world needs to be liberated from American values and culture, spreading across the planet as if by divine providence." -- Kalle Lasn​
/crickets
Seriously? You dodge my question for over two days, though posting in this thread repeatedly, yet have the gall to call me out after only 14 hours (most of which was overnight)? Get over yourself Sparky. Maybe you have nothing better to do than read AT all day, but I work for a living and have a life. You have the great privilege of my very first post today.

On a positive note, I have to thank you for the quote. I was only vaguely aware of Lasn and had to do a little homework before replying. I'm glad I did. I like this guy. He and I have similar views on several things, including the tremendous damage Americans have done to ourselves and our country due to our unrestrained consumerism and corporate excess. I ordered his book tonight.

So, that said, let's look at your quote and see how well it backs your allegation that "anti-American" sources are "behind ... funding" the OWS movement? In particular, I'm looking for evidence showing these "anti-American" sources are a substantial source of funding (since pretty much anyone can make incidental contributions that have no material impact on direction and goals). You finally offered one bit of "evidence," the quote above.

So ...

Seriously? Two days of running away and that's all you could come up with? Really? You failed.

You failed on several fronts. First, you've failed to show Lasn or his company is providing any substantial funding to OWS. Yes, he was the inspiration, and yes he has continued to offer ideas, but "a substantial source of funding?" Not a single spec of evidence from you.

Second, your initial comment specifically alleged "Marxists and other anti-American groups" (plural) were behind the continued funding of OWS. Yet the best you can come up with is one guy who's made his living publishing a magazine mocking dishonest advertising, denouncing the aforementioned consumerism and corporate excess, and generally rabble-rousing. 404 - Marxism not found. Again, no evidence to support your assertion.

Third, the Lasn quote you provided is hardly anti-American. Anti-status quo? Yes. Anti-America's culture of wanton consumerism and corporate greed, both at home and abroad? Indeed. But anti-American? Not at all, at least not in the sense he wants America's destruction. He just wants Americans to grow up, quit obsessing on stuff, stop letting corporations corrupt the country, etc.

In short, he wants largely the same things OWS wants. If you believe he is anti-American, then you should also believe OWS is anti-American. That's a different issue entirely, and makes this whole discussion a waste of electrons. If you're an apologist for corruption, it's no wonder you find Lasn and OWS to be anti-American. Tough.

I'd also point out that were it not for the right's typically blind partisanship, you might actually realize you have much in common with Lasn. For example, a standard right-wing talking point in any threads discussing relief for the middle-class is that it's their own fault, that they shouldn't have been so obsessed with material goods they couldn't really afford. Strangely enough, that's one of Lasn's issues too. Of course you part ways when he goes on to place some blame at the feet of marketing companies who've developed manipulating consumers' minds into a horrifyingly-effective science. Righties, in general, will never acknowledge that companies do bad things too, that they are a big part of the problem.


In summary, given that you've totally failed to prove your allegation, I'm going to assume this is just another example of faith-based alternate reality. You reached your conclusion first through emotions and ideology, then went hunting for facts once challenged. If you can come up with real objective, credible evidence, I'm still open to considering it ... but I won't hold my breath.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
...Oprah, George Soros, Oliver Stone, Al Gore, John Kerry, Nancy Pelosi, the Clintons, Peter Lewis, David Gelbaum, Steven Spielberg, Jerry Katzenberg, JJ Abrams, Andy Spahn...

The greatest trick the wealthy Leftists ever pulled was convincing the world they don't exist.
No, I think the "greatest trick they ever pulled" was giving wing-nuts yet another dishonest propaganda point. You guys can't handle nuance and you see the world in stark black and white terms. Therefore, you jump to the simple-minded conclusion that if OWS objects to the Wall Street banksters and corrupt corporations that have pillaged America, it has to mean OWS opposes all wealth and all success. Nonsense. They don't. I know that's hard to wrap you head around, but there are many ways to gain wealth. Some are good, some are so-so, and some are evil.
 

WackyDan

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2004
4,794
68
91
LOL, all you right wing a-holes better get it straight. This is the polite way of demonstrating a vote of no-confidence in the system.

"In a Quinnipiac University poll released Monday, two-thirds of New York City voters said they support the protests. The backers included 81 percent of Democrats and, perhaps more surprisingly, 35 percent of Republicans. And an overwhelming majority, 87 percent, said it’s “okay that they are protesting."

http://slatest.slate.com/posts/201...mainstream_popularity.html

This isn't the first time and its certainly not the last that a widespread demonstration of no-confidence in the government and economic system has produced results. This is as close as anyone really wants to get to reinventing the guillotine and, thankfully, with mass media such crude methods are seldom if ever required anymore. Even those hidden away in their ivory towers and mansions get it when enough people start protesting. Either something constructive gets done to address the situation, or the shit starts hitting the fan.

Homeland security, your local cops, and the military can deal with a lot of problems, but mass revolt and the guillotine are not among them.

Where you get it wrong... is I'm a conservative... and I support getting money out of politics... and I would have even stood with my local OWS movement.... * Except for the fact that they have no cohesive message and have been co-opted by special interests and various radical groups fairly quickly.

So if you were to poll me I'd say I support the original intent of the movement, but not what it has become.
 
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