#OccupyWallstreet

[Bowfinger]

How do you break up an illegal assembly where you're outnumbered 10+ to 1 ? Aside from the fun darpa crowd control gizmos (high pitch noise/ microwaves), I don't see how any PD can react efficiently w/o bean bags and rubber bullets.

How? Patiently, professionally, keeping your cool and following your training. There was a recent protest like this in Des Moines where Iowa State Patrol officers -- some of the most professional cops I've ever known -- were vastly outnumbered and faced a stubborn crowd that refused to disperse. How did they handle it? Pairs of troopers carried the protestors away, one by one. Yes, it took time, but they maintained the calm, maintained control, and did their jobs. To the best of my knowledge, there were no injuries.

In fairness, it certainly helps that the Iowa protestors were practicing peaceful civil disobedience. That is a two-way street, however. If the police behave calmly and professionally, it helps avoid inflaming the protestors.

(Finally, there may have been other law enforcement agencies there too. The footage I saw just showed State Patrol, and it was on State property, but I wouldn't be surprised if Des Moines Police and other agencies were involved too. If so, kudos to all of them for their professionalism.)

 

[Bowfinger]

Where you get it wrong... is I'm a conservative... and I support getting money out of politics... and I would have even stood with my local OWS movement.... * Except for the fact that they have no cohesive message and have been co-opted by special interests and various radical groups fairly quickly.

So if you were to poll me I'd say I support the original intent of the movement, but not what it has become.

Interesting. I assume you can provide objective, credible evidence that OWS has been "co-opted by special interests and various radical groups" - true? Surely this allegation is based on fact and not just another example of faith-based alternative realities.

And don't bother with the usual lame examples of fringe elements who've expressed support for OWS. Talk is cheap. The movement is open to all, so any fool can figure out it will attract a few loons. What really matters is whether these "radical groups" are having significant influence on the OWS agenda and direction.

TIA

 

[halik]

How? Patiently, professionally, keeping your cool and following your training. There was a recent protest like this in Des Moines where Iowa State Patrol officers -- some of the most professional cops I've ever known -- were vastly outnumbered and faced a stubborn crowd that refused to disperse. How did they handle it? Pairs of troopers carried the protestors away, one by one. Yes, it took time, but they maintained the calm, maintained control, and did their jobs. To the best of my knowledge, there were no injuries.

In fairness, it certainly helps that the Iowa protestors were practicing peaceful civil disobedience. That is a two-way street, however. If the police behave calmly and professionally, it helps avoid inflaming the protestors.

(Finally, there may have been other law enforcement agencies there too. The footage I saw just showed State Patrol, and it was on State property, but I wouldn't be surprised if Des Moines Police and other agencies were involved too. If so, kudos to all of them for their professionalism.)

I have my doubts that anything of that sort would've happened in Oakland, especially in light of the recent riot after the BART shooting. Bandana anarchists aren't exactly the most peaceful of people.

 

[Bowfinger]

I have my doubts that anything of that sort would've happened in Oakland, especially in light of the recent riot after the BART shooting. Bandana anarchists aren't exactly the most peaceful of people.

No argument. It takes two to tango. If either side turns violent, it is more likely the other side will too. Good, professional cops can often keeps things under control, but they don't have magic wands and they are human.

 

[wuliheron]

Are you kidding me? I could get a kindergarten class to photoshop a better picture. Still, I'm sure they'd love the primary colors just as much.

In this day and age of every soccer mom carrying a phone with a built in camera and every cop car with one on the dashboard you'd think the police of all people would be proud to show video of protesters throwing rocks and bottles. But NO! The only videos online I've seen have all shown the same thing. A quiet crowd suddenly being bombarded with endless tear gas and bean bags. One video even shows a cop lobbing a flash bang at a group of people who stop to help someone who has fallen and can't get up. Another shows people pushing someone in a wheelchair out of the clouds of tear gas.

Get it straight a-holes! This is as polite as a show of no-confidence in the system gets and you don't want to see the alternatives.

 

[palehorse]

On a positive note, I have to thank you for the quote. I was only vaguely aware of Lasn and had to do a little homework before replying. I'm glad I did. I like this guy. He and I have similar views on several things, including the tremendous damage Americans have done to ourselves and our country due to our unrestrained consumerism and corporate excess. I ordered his book tonight.

LOL! Lasn is a well-known anti-American and anti-Capitalist anarchist whose desires include getting rid of TVs, automobiles, ALL private corporations, and running water.

The fact that you admire or agree with ANY of those "ideals" tells me more than I ever needed to know about just what kind of total douchebag you are.

Everyone who is paying attention with an open mind knows exactly who is behind these protests.

Enjoy your new "literature," comrade...

 

[JSt0rm]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_assembly

1st amendment. What is only the second amendment important to the American Taliban?

'the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances'"

 

[JSt0rm]

LOL! Lasn is a well-known anti-American and anti-Capitalist anarchist whose desires include getting rid of TVs, automobiles, ALL private corporations, and running water.

The fact that you admire or agree with ANY of those "ideals" tells me more than I ever needed to know about just what kind of total douchebag you are.

Everyone who is paying attention with an open mind knows exactly who is behind these protests.

Enjoy your new "literature," comrade...

Why should anyone believe anything you say?

 

[JSt0rm]

in fact here I am searching for this in google and I cant find anything that states this person is against running water. So you, the uneducated durf was told this by "someone" and you lapped it up like a good little unthinking drone.

 

[halik]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_assembly

1st amendment. What is only the second amendment important to the American Taliban?

'the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances'"

Yay stupid fallacy. The Constitution does not grant you unlimited freedom of assembly not unlimited freedom of speech.

http://www.aclufl.org/pdfs/right_to_protest_brochure.pdf

You have a constitutionally protected
right to engage in peaceful protest in “traditional
public forums” such as streets, sidewalks or parks.
But, the government can impose "time, place and
ma n n e r " r e s t r i c t i o n s o n s p e e c h b y r e q u i r i n g
p e r m i t s . T h e s e r e s t r i c t i o n s a r e g e n e r a l l y
permissible as long as they are reasonable and
not based on content. The government cannot
impose permit restrictions simply because it does
not like the message of a certain speaker or group.

The First Amendment does not protect speech that is
combined with the violation of established laws such as
trespassing, disobeying or interfering with a lawful order by a
police officer.

 

[palehorse]

Why should anyone believe anything you say?

I don't care if anyone believes me. All I hope for is that some blind supporters become willing to look behind the curtains with an open mind, and then ask themselves why certain anti-American groups are dumping thousands, if not millions, into heightening the unrest.

If half of the protesters knew and understood what people like Kalle Lasn and The Workers Party actually intend for this nation, they'd probably run away and hide for several months in an attempt to rid themselves of the stink.

As soon as the protesters wake up a realize that ALL of the politicians in DC are to blame for our problems, and then readjust the aim of their protests accordingly, I cannot support anything they're doing.

They must also refuse financial support from any/all known anti-American organizations and persons, or they'll fade into history, collectively, as nothing more than a misguided hiccup...

 

[palehorse]

in fact here I am searching for this in google and I cant find anything that states this person is against running water. So you, the uneducated durf was told this by "someone" and you lapped it up like a good little unthinking drone.

It's in his book. Look for the .nzb or torrent. He shouldn't mind at all if you pirate his book -- after all, he opposes capitalism and consumerism... right?

EDIT: woops! it's actually in the September/October 2003 issue of AdBusters magazine. I mixed up my quotes. Excerpt:

"What makes you think you have the right to drive around with a ton of metal wrapped around you, the right to twist a tap and get hot water, the right to flick a switch and get your house warmed up?"​

 

[ComradeBeck]

I don't care if anyone believes me.

Honesty by a righty? Hmm, broken clocks and all..

 

[JSt0rm]

It's in his book. Look for the .nzb or torrent. He shouldn't mind at all if you pirate his book -- after all, he opposes capitalism and consumerism... right?

What is the exact quote? Im finding nothing online. I'm guessing your fail ass was told this on right wing radio and you didnt fact check.

 

[palehorse]

What is the exact quote? Im finding nothing online. I'm guessing your fail ass was told this on right wing radio and you didnt fact check.

See the edit to my last post.

 

[palehorse]

Honesty by a righty? Hmm, broken clocks and all..

A "righty"? You guys really like to put people in boxes, don't ya?

I'm pro-choice, non-religious, pro gay marriage, anti-lobbyist, and my dumb ass voted for Obama. However, I'm fiscally conservative, anti-entitlement, pro small government, pro free-market capitalism, anti-UHC, and big on national security issues.

I may lean slightly "right" on many economic and national security issues, but I definitely don't fit your little molds for Right and Left -- I consider myself to be a centrist independent...

I like to think of it as "common sense," even though it's not very common...

 

[JSt0rm]

I see you found the source of the quote but I want to see that in context. i doubt this person is against running water as you said. Sounds like they are ranting about fossil fuels but we dont have the entire context.

 

[halik]

A "righty"? You guys really like to put people in boxes, don't ya?

I'm pro-choice, non-religious, pro gay marriage, anti-lobbyist, and my dumb ass voted for Obama. However, I'm fiscally conservative, anti-entitlement, pro small government, pro free-market capitalism, anti-UHC, and big on national security issues.

I may lean slightly "right" on many economic and national security issues, but I definitely don't fit your little molds for Right and Left -- I consider myself to be a centrist independent...

I like to think of it as "common sense," even though it's not very common...

You're arguing with a guy that has "CommradeBeck" handle...

 

[davmat787]

A "righty"? You guys really like to put people in boxes, don't ya?

I'm pro-choice, non-religious, pro gay marriage, anti-lobbyist, and my dumb ass voted for Obama. However, I'm fiscally conservative, anti-entitlement, pro small government, pro free-market capitalism, anti-UHC, and big on national security issues.

I may lean slightly "right" on many economic and national security issues, but I definitely don't fit your little molds for Right and Left -- I consider myself to be a centrist independent...

I like to think of it as "common sense," even though it's not very common...

I know the feeling to defend yourself is strong but what do you expect from someone who goes by "Comrade Beck" and posts nothing but mindless rants against the evil right?

FYI: I feel pretty much the exact same way as you do on the list of issues, and consider myself a centrist independent as well. I feel it is mindless to be beholden to any single party or system of ideology. Partisanship is becoming the new religion it seems like, complete with bind faith and prophets and all.

 

[WackyDan]

Interesting. I assume you can provide objective, credible evidence that OWS has been "co-opted by special interests and various radical groups" - true? Surely this allegation is based on fact and not just another example of faith-based alternative realities.

And don't bother with the usual lame examples of fringe elements who've expressed support for OWS. Talk is cheap. The movement is open to all, so any fool can figure out it will attract a few loons. What really matters is whether these "radical groups" are having significant influence on the OWS agenda and direction.

TIA

They allow the unions, who pump millions of dollars into the coffers of politicians to march with them. They are making exceptions for the special interests that somehow magically align with them and pump dollars into their movement? Really? Hypocrisy...

I've seen enough footage of socialist and communist groups at these OWS events that it is all I need to see.

Kids bitching about their student debt? Go picket the college you went to for the bullshit degree and high tuition.

Yeah... I spend time in #Occupy too. That is enlightening. "faith-based alternative realities" WTF? I'm not even religious, but nice that you apply a stereotype to this independent conservative.

 

[Craig234]

They allow the unions, who pump millions of dollars into the coffers of politicians to march with them. They are making exceptions for the special interests that somehow magically align with them and pump dollars into their movement? Really? Hypocrisy...

Yes, it's terribly hypocritical for them to treat the organized powerful interests - top corporations and billionares - differently than the groups who serve the workers.

That's like calling a US soldier a hypocrite for calling the enemy generals an enemy while following the orders of his own army's generals.

Making exception for the special interest generals that somehow magically align.

Ameican colonists?

Hypocrites for saying they opposed the abuses of the English monarchy while making an exception for the founding father special interests that somehow magically aligned.

Idiocy.

 

[thegimp03]

Are you kidding me? I could get a kindergarten class to photoshop a better picture. Still, I'm sure they'd love the primary colors just as much.

Haha, you sound pretty dumb. Do you know where those supposedly "photoshopped" pictures were posted? sfgate.com, specifically from this article:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/10/25/BAUB1LLTC9.DTL

You should get your facts straight before making blind accusations.

 

[Craig234]

He's worth $50,000,0000.

Good for him.

He's a self-made person who started with nothing, and has earned that money.

Further, he's done so pushing for moral change to the country. He didn't make his money by finding ways to scam pension funds, but $10 at a time selling people things.

Pretty great story. The American dream.

He's better off than most of the Wall Street bailout clowns and made his millions via equally bullshit conditions.

First, his money comes from creating inexpensive products millions of people want, not from finding ways to extract wealth from the actual producers like most of Wall Street.

Next, his wealth pales in comparison to the really wealth - but he's high in the '1%'. Nothing wrong with that - and he is happy to give away more wealth in higher taxes.

Next, he's making products that are trying to solve problems, not just 'take money'.

Next, the only 'BS conditions' are your dishonest attacks.

Why do you hate people who stand up for moral values and want to help the country?

There's no comparison between the Wall Street fraud and his movies, TV and books.

 

[monovillage]

Groups who serve the workers? If they really served the workers they wouldn't be dumping the billions of dollars of their members dues into the black hole of political donations, they'd be using that money to enhance the lives and retirement of their members and their families. They'd be building union retirement homes, union daycare, union care facilities, hospitals,gyms and nutritional centers. Instead they puke their money into the toilet of partisan politics and otherwise piss their members money away. Serve the workers my ass.

 

[palehorse]

I see you found the source of the quote but I want to see that in context. i doubt this person is against running water as you said. Sounds like they are ranting about fossil fuels but we dont have the entire context.

Actually, no. He's a sworn anarchist who truly wishes the world would give up most, if not all, of the technological advancements we've made over the last 400 years -- then again, he's known to be a blatant hypocrite in that regard, as well.

You wasted money on his book, so I guess you'll find out soon enough...