#OccupyWallstreet

[cwjerome]

They are not a political party! Quite the opposite, they are protesting the entire political process. OWS is the modern peaceful version of the peasants storming the palace with knives and pitch forks and demanding change or else. Instead of knives and pitch forks these peasants have cellphones and civil disobedience. With a single tweet any of them has the potential to create a flash crowd of thousands. There are now over 1,000 Occupy protests worldwide.

A lot of people seem to have a romantic view of the movement. I am more skeptical. American's are understandably upset by some of the incestuous financial goings-on between government and big business. But most of the OSW types aren't rallying against crony capitalism and corporatism necessarily... they are after genuine capitalism. They are not so much against government manipulation and control of the economy, they just have a difference of opinion on who should benefit more or less. In other words they are A) happy to keep the same corrupt structure in place and merely change out winners and losers, and B) happy to kill off normal capitalistic ideals and processes in a broad swipe against bad/false capitalism.

There are strands of truth to the movement, but it's a VERY imperfect protest, egged on by many of the worst political partisans.

 

[dwell]

The numbers aren't in the people there day and night, they are in the events that are generated. Occupy Times Square had 10-20,000 people there, and some estimates were higher.

And that was the peak of the movement. A bunch of people came from out of town to be part of the fad of the week. Nothing has happened remotely as big since, nor will it. They had a pathetic turnout in Times Square this Friday. Only 200 or so people.

 

[Jhhnn]

Marxist, Marxist, Marxist! Aiiieee! No! Noooooo!

Amazing what Righties will resort to so as to maintain denial, avoid any questioning of their own fervent beliefs. It's Religion. They'd start the inquisition if they had the power to do so.

 

[duragezic]

And why shouldn't a couple bad apples reflect on the whole? How many times has this photo been posted just on this forum alone as representative of the whole Tea Party?

Here's the voice of Occupy Wall Street. Quite a movement you've got going there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsJPKMvWDmY

LOL. I know that's very selective but I keep seeing responses like that and it makes me fucking hate these "#occupy" idiots more. Even when the MSM gives a more neutral view on it, it's still stupid. It's mostly dumb generic slogans and terrible ideas... "GET RID OF DEBTS".

I did see an article about #occupydetroit. That's good to know. I want to head down there tomorrow. And work? Meh, those fatcats better pay me still even though I won't be at work. I deserve it.

 

[Craig234]

A lot of people seem to have a romantic view of the movement. I am more skeptical. American's are understandably upset by some of the incestuous financial goings-on between government and big business. But most of the OSW types aren't rallying against crony capitalism and corporatism necessarily... they are after genuine capitalism. They are not so much against government manipulation and control of the economy, they just have a difference of opinion on who should benefit more or less. In other words they are A) happy to keep the same corrupt structure in place and merely change out winners and losers, and B) happy to kill off normal capitalistic ideals and processes in a broad swipe against bad/false capitalism.

There are strands of truth to the movement, but it's a VERY imperfect protest, egged on by many of the worst political partisans.

Are you for the 1% or the 99%? Pretty simple question. You don't get to pick perfect.

There was plenty of fault to find in every movement's protests. Did you oppose them?

 

[Craig234]

...hate these "#occupy" idiots more.

That's about as ironic as the guy you mention with the 'Moran' sign.

 

[halik]

And why shouldn't a couple bad apples reflect on the whole? How many times has this photo been posted just on this forum alone as representative of the whole Tea Party?

Here's the voice of Occupy Wall Street. Quite a movement you've got going there.

That's pretty good generalization of the tea party.

OWS is more along the lines of this:

I would say at least the former group was annoying politicians... and somehow managed to get couple morons elected. I would be surprised if the OWS folk got any Policy done, per the Cartman hippie dictum.

 

[wuliheron]

New? This has been the Marxist calling card for over 100 years now. New? Really? You think this is new?

Screw the Marxists, its been the ace in the hole since the invention of civilization. In ancient Rome the peasants would routinely riot and storm the palace when they starved in winter. They certainly were not communists, but if you imagine pinko commies under every bed I suggest trying anti-psychotics. In fact, from all your posts I suggest trying them anyway.

 

[wuliheron]

A lot of people seem to have a romantic view of the movement. I am more skeptical. American's are understandably upset by some of the incestuous financial goings-on between government and big business. But most of the OSW types aren't rallying against crony capitalism and corporatism necessarily... they are after genuine capitalism. They are not so much against government manipulation and control of the economy, they just have a difference of opinion on who should benefit more or less. In other words they are A) happy to keep the same corrupt structure in place and merely change out winners and losers, and B) happy to kill off normal capitalistic ideals and processes in a broad swipe against bad/false capitalism.

There are strands of truth to the movement, but it's a VERY imperfect protest, egged on by many of the worst political partisans.

A) That's a conspiracy type theory. I suggest anti-psychotics.

B) There is nothing romantic about peasants storming the palace.

 

[spidey07]

Screw the Marxists, its been the ace in the hole since the invention of civilization. In ancient Rome the peasants would routinely riot and storm the palace when they starved in winter. They certainly were not communists, but if you imagine pinko commies under every bed I suggest trying anti-psychotics. In fact, from all your posts I suggest trying them anyway.

See you come election time. I'll see you there. You can bitch all you want but your word only motivate me more to get folks I agree with elected.

What are you doing? This forum made me get much more involved in politics because I see dumb fucks actually falling for it.

What are you doing? I can guarantee I'm doing much more than you. Everyday we talk about how to defeat yours ideas. Who we can donate to.

What are you doing?

Nothing. I'm banking on that. Care to make a wager worker?

 

[xj0hnx]

Type 11 here.

Sweet, I need to get with you sometime soon, I've got a supplier in Bulgaria that can get a hold of some quality "retired" military arms

 

[MagickMan]

You mean a Type 01/02 FFL. Pawn Broker, or B&M gun shop? Destructive devices? Manufacturer Type 09? SOT 1/2/3? Or just talking shit?

I'm a private home-based dealer of Title II weapons, have been since 2006.

 

[xj0hnx]

I'm a private home-based dealer of Title II weapons, have been since 2006.

<--Jealous, would love to be able to get some of those post dealer sample HK's, or a reasonably priced Glock 18, or just anything made after '86 :biggrin:

How's the process/cost nowadays? $200 for the Form 7 fee, what else?

 

[wuliheron]

See you come election time. I'll see you there. You can bitch all you want but your word only motivate me more to get folks I agree with elected.

What are you doing? This forum made me get much more involved in politics because I see dumb fucks actually falling for it.

What are you doing? I can guarantee I'm doing much more than you. Everyday we talk about how to defeat yours ideas. Who we can donate to.

What are you doing?

Nothing. I'm banking on that. Care to make a wager worker?

Spidey I'm convinced there is nothing anyone on the planet could say that would ever change your mind. A wet sponge thrown at a freight train would have better odds of derailing it and I'm sure you even believe that's a compliment. A lemming has to walk off that cliff and some people just demand to be slapped down hard by reality. Politics don't mean shit if people get tired of the games and stop playing by the rules.

 

[MagickMan]

<--Jealous, would love to be able to get some of those post dealer sample HK's, or a reasonably priced Glock 18, or just anything made after '86 :biggrin:

How's the process/cost nowadays? $200 for the Form 7 fee, what else?

Heh, I pay $500 /yr SOT and have to keep comprehensive records and logs, but the ATF has never requested to see them. The background check and interview is the tough part, they called all sorts of people to check on me; family, friends, business associates. Then I was grilled for a while, which made me feel like I was being questioned by the NSA. You just have to stay cool, calm, and don't say anything that isn't 100% true. Still, you can do all that and be okay and they'll turn you down and never tell you why. It's their ballgame and their rules.

 

[MagickMan]

Spidey I'm convinced there is nothing anyone on the planet could say that would ever change your mind. A wet sponge thrown at a freight train would have better odds of derailing it and I'm sure you even believe that's a compliment.

There's not a difference in the world between his intractability and AUSM, Craig234, and eskimospy. None of them will change their minds.

Frankly, arguing in the P&N forum is purely masturbatory. It makes no difference to anyone and has bearing in the real world. It's pure entertainment for "+1s" and self-congratulation when "your side" wins some political point. It doesn't mean shit.

 

[Steeplerot]

There's not a difference in the world between his intractability and AUSM, Craig234, and eskimospy. None of them will change their minds.

Frankly, arguing in the P&N forum is purely masturbatory. It makes no difference to anyone and has bearing in the real world. It's pure entertainment for "+1s" and self-congratulation when "your side" wins some political point. It doesn't mean shit.

That is the biggest case of sour grapes since Republicans lost 08 so bad.

 

[wuliheron]

There's not a difference in the world between his intractability and AUSM, Craig234, and eskimospy. None of them will change their minds.

Frankly, arguing in the P&N forum is purely masturbatory. It makes no difference to anyone and has bearing in the real world. It's pure entertainment for "+1s" and self-congratulation when "your side" wins some political point. It doesn't mean shit.

Not just pure entertainment, but a chance to play with different ways of expressing things that isn't possible in the real world. If anything all that compulsive trash talk and stubbornness just helps people to figure out new ways of directly addressing the issues. In Spidey's case, not so much because of the low quality of his posts, but I'm sure his being here helps to attract others like him.

 

[BoberFett]

Not just pure entertainment, but a chance to play with different ways of expressing things that isn't possible in the real world. If anything all that compulsive trash talk and stubbornness just helps people to figure out new ways of directly addressing the issues. In Spidey's case, not so much because of the low quality of his posts, but I'm sure his being here helps to attract others like him.

Well it certainly attracted you and Steeplerot...

 

[MagickMan]

People don't like to hear that P&N doesn't really matter, except as a way to blow off steam and have fun pissing on other people's views.

OWS doesn't really matter either, people don't care if you're crowding the business districts, the only people you're annoying are the working stiffs who have to commute an hour each way to get to work. Ironic how that works, you're only inconveniencing the people who are in the center of middle class America. The true "1&#37;" are enjoying umbrella drinks on the beach in Fiji. :\

 

[xj0hnx]

Heh, I pay $500 /yr SOT and have to keep comprehensive records and logs, but the ATF has never requested to see them. The background check and interview is the tough part, they called all sorts of people to check on me; family, friends, business associates. Then I was grilled for a while, which made me feel like I was being questioned by the NSA. You just have to stay cool, calm, and don't say anything that isn't 100% true. Still, you can do all that and be okay and they'll turn you down and never tell you why. It's their ballgame and their rules.

That's not too bad as far as the money side, I wouldn't have a problem with the background checks, I've already gone through buying class III firearms, and security clearances in the military. Hmmm, maybe something to look into, it's just annoying knowing that they can tell you to pound sand for no reason.

 

[JSt0rm]

That's pretty good generalization of the tea party.

OWS is more along the lines of this:

I would say at least the former group was annoying politicians... and somehow managed to get couple morons elected. I would be surprised if the OWS folk got any Policy done, per the Cartman hippie dictum.

clearly photoshopped.

 

[cubby1223]

Not just pure entertainment, but a chance to play with different ways of expressing things that isn't possible in the real world. If anything all that compulsive trash talk and stubbornness just helps people to figure out new ways of directly addressing the issues. In Spidey's case, not so much because of the low quality of his posts, but I'm sure his being here helps to attract others like him.

I'd say it's more like people find ways to be more manipulative with their words.

Take the stereotypical abortion debate - in the real world you can either support the legalization of abortions or not. In the P&N world, depending on the context, someone is either supportive of murder, against the rights of unborn babies, against someone's right to choose or my favorite, you "desire to deny women the right to receive medical care". As an actual representative in congress once famously stated to a crowd of supporters, the goal of Republicans in congress is to kill women.

You don't "figure out new ways of directly addressing the issues." You learn how to single out one aspect of an issue, rephrase it in a way that cannot be argued against, then repeat that as response to everyone's counter-argument.

There is a military veteran in the OWS protest. You don't hate military veterans, do you? A polar bear died from global warming - you don't hate animals, do you? I recall a political ad on tv saying if you are against cap & tax, then you support terrorists killing Americans. If you want minimum wage lowered, it means you hate workers earning a decent wage. If you want minimum wage raised, it means you hate workers and want them to be unemployed. If you want minimum wage to remain the same, it means you hate workers by not wanting to do anything.

Basically P&N teaches people to be annoying jackasses disconnected from normal reality


The sad thing is, P&N culture is becoming more and more mainstream. I've said it before and I'll say it again - politics is a disease

 

[jmarti445]

I think people are forgetting the most important thing with this movement and that is it is against Wall Street executives and CEOs getting golden parachutes and fleeing companies millionares while the other 99&#37; go on unemployment or lose their homes. Personally I'm somewhere in between free enterprise and socialism as a point of view. I feel that people should be allowed to become millionares if success and the economy makes it so. Think Bill Gates/Sam Walton type of fortune where they form a company and get rich off of it. I know a few people in my past who had that type of success maybe not to the effect of those two but they are definately in the top 1% of the pay scale, from working their asses off and building a company from scratch through selling on Amazon and ebay and taking 10-15 years to achieve the status of a millionare. Where I draw the line is with two things, one is they should have to pay their share of tax on their earnings, dividends and winfalls like everyone else. Two is if the company is failing and they are at the helm they should go down with the ship because maybe then with that option they will come up with bright ideas to right the ship.

It is ridiculous that someone could earn a salary that is 1000+ times greater then the average employee while only being in that position for a couple of months. Its also ridiculous for them to get a winfall while everyone else suffers. I personally feel that american corporations need to take heed of another capitalist nation when it comes to CEO pay...Japan, where the average CEO maybe makes about $1-2 million or so a year. They are still the 1%, but $1-2 million dollars of salary leaves a lot more money freed up to hire people and help their stock holders as well(US average I believe for big companies is $25-$50 million). I would even say that severence's should also partially or mostly held up by company stock and that the CEO's should get what typical corporations give its employees which is two weeks pay. Granted, its still a large sum of money even with the Japanese system of capitalism but a person that is making a couple of million a year isn't going to want to take 2 weeks of that salary to leave the company, they are going to want to right the ship and make the company successful as best as they can.

If you look at Bill Gates, he didn't earn a huge salary, instead he got paid mostly in stock which has a worth to it but it is dependant on if the company sinks or swims, if he cashes it in he has to pay the taxes on those stocks and therefore would rather take the dividends it pays which granted(which are still taxed), he can live off of, and the company is still solvent.

I think reforms need to be made to CEO's salaries, and I feel that the goverment should take an active part in helping these people who are down on their luck get back on their feet with assistance like Grants and loans for starting a business and work placement assistance to the people who are looking for work.

I guess you could say I have a liberal point of view basically but not a socialist point of view when it comes to things because I do feel that millionares are ok in the most part but the 1% should not rape the other 99% of the population and should pay their fair share of taxes in order to help the other 99% because the 1% are dependent of the other 99 for success and if the 99% fail then everyone should fail.

I'm just one of the 99% who aspires to be more then what I am today, if it is to become one of the 1%(though highly unlikely) then so be it, but I will never forget what it feels like to be part of the 99% and therefore I support Occupy Wall Street.(Hey Warren Buffet atleast inpart supports this movement and therefore you could say that if 1 insanely rich man can take that point of view what would prevent others).

 

[jmarti445]

I also add that the Tea Party people aren't typically the insanely rich, instead they are people like Spidey and others who make probably $60-80k a year(maybe $100k at the most) and think that they are rich and haven't a freaking clue of how enterprise and taxes work and help our nation stay healthy.

Now for a slightly off topic but somewhat on topic sidenote. The 2012 election, Obama has my vote at the moment but if Giulliani runs as a Republican then I may have to switch my party affilation to GOP because I feel he knows how the system works a lot better then Obama and certainly a lot better then how the other Republicans in the race know how things work(Where the Hell is Steve Forbes?). Conversely I think that the Democrats need to come up with more canidates to run against Obama because while he is better then what the right is coming up with I certainly do not feel that he is doing a great Job. Howard Dean, Bill Bradley...I'm talking to you. Step up!

I want Alternatives to what we are offered because whether, liberal, conservative or moderate there have to be better options then what we are being offered.