#OccupyWallstreet

[Phokus]

The Occupy Wall Street protestors are probably the very folks the Tea Party are protesting against; there is probably fairly complete overlap in the Venn Diagram between them and the people whom Rick Santelli's rant was about.

And the Rick Santelli rant is fucking retarded and exposed the problem with this country. The Tea Party was a very small Ron Paul movement (who actually did protest against the wall street bailouts), but a fucking 75 billion dollar program by Obama to help main street is what turned the Tea Party from a insignificant Ron Paul movement to the Astroturf faux small government monster it is today (now compare that to the comparatively astronomical wall street bailouts and not a peep from these assholes before).

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Oh and Cad, good job minimizing that soldier's PTSD as if he isn't going to struggle in school and life afterwards with it, you piece of shit.

I did no such thing. Try again junior.

 

[IceBergSLiM]

What does a private citizen (you) issuing orders on private property (my house) have to do with a police officer issuing orders on a public sidewalk?

Lets keep the scenario the same then......instead of your home lets say I approached the same way on a public sidewalk.

Also you never answered the question posed below:

Huh?

They are being told instructions to follow didn't thus the pepper spraying.

Pretty straightforward.

Under whose authority? Authority has to come from somewhere....Police can't issue commands to suck their cock. Authority comes from two places that I know of and they are God's law and Man's Law. So what court issued that specific authority to those officers. If you are under the impression that having a badge and gun means you can issue whatever "orders or instructions" you feel like you are greatly mistaken.

 

[Phokus]

I did no such thing. Try again junior.

You did:

"Uhhh.. really? PTSD isn't uncommon so maybe find a different doc? You know... a second or third opinion? Also, if you served that long school shouldn't be too big of a financial burden. Sheesh..."

If you're fucked in the head from war, life is going to be much harder than your average civillian. You think his chances at completing his education is good while he has issues? You think his prospects of employment are good whether he completes his degree or not? You were dismissive of his problems and it just goes to show what a dick you are.

 

[Matt1970]

LMAO, you're god damned retarded, the grandparents of these kids had it fucking easy you shit for brains moron. Back then, you could raise a family on one income easily AND have a great pension at retirement.

Kids today: WTF is a pension?

Not quite. Most familes had 1 car, 1 TV if they are lucky in the house and ate in every night and did everything they could to make a dollar stretch.

Now every member of a family has a $50/Month phone bill, LCD TV in every room, more gadgets than you can count and and 4 cars in the driveway. They shop for new clothes twice a week and don't even know how to use a stove.

 

[bfdd]

Phokus, why doesn't the soldier have some personal responsibility for enlisting themselves? If they were drafted I can totally see you're point, but they signed up for it. My brother served and got severely injured. He and the rest of our family didn't place blame anywhere. That shit happens, it's fucking war, he signed up for it. They help him out, he still works. Yeah other people have different experiences and other out looks on life, but like I said they chose that for themselves.

 

[Phokus]

Not quite. Most familes had 1 car, 1 TV if they are lucky in the house and ate in every night and did everything they could to make a dollar stretch.

Now every member of a family has a $50/Month phone bill, LCD TV in every room, more gadgets than you can count and and 4 cars in the driveway. They shop for new clothes twice a week and don't even know how to use a stove.

Who the fuck cares about electronics and insignificant shit you're talking about?

It's a HELLUVA lot more expensive to live these days than back then. My dad had it fucking easy on one salary comparatively speaking. Elizabeth Warren breaks down the cost of living today vs. 30 or so years ago:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akVL7QY0S8A

Also, holy shit wtf kind of hyperbole are you spewing? 4 cars for every member of a family? Me and my wife make close to $200K a year and we share a car, most of the people on our block have 1 or 2 cars in their driveway. Are you insane?

 

[Phokus]

Phokus, why doesn't the soldier have some personal responsibility for enlisting themselves? If they were drafted I can totally see you're point, but they signed up for it. My brother served and got severely injured. He and the rest of our family didn't place blame anywhere. That shit happens, it's fucking war, he signed up for it. They help him out, he still works. Yeah other people have different experiences and other out looks on life, but like I said they chose that for themselves.

Because it's turning less and less of a 'choice' for more and more people. If there are so few opportunities left, even i would consider joining the military if it was the difference between eating or not.

 

[IceBergSLiM]

Are you insane?

no he just must be from california

 

[CADsortaGUY]

You did:

"Uhhh.. really? PTSD isn't uncommon so maybe find a different doc? You know... a second or third opinion? Also, if you served that long school shouldn't be too big of a financial burden. Sheesh..."

If you're fucked in the head from war, life is going to be much harder than your average civillian. You think his chances at completing his education is good while he has issues? You think his prospects of employment are good whether he completes his degree or not? You were dismissive of his problems and it just goes to show what a dick you are.

No, i was suggesting they go get a second opinion since the military does in fact recognize it and that if they do have PTSD they should get the help they need. They need to be an advocate for themselves as the military system at times is a beast to get through - especially on the medical side.
Again, if they served for that long (2 wars) they should qualify for quite a bit of aid and training assistance from the military.

So once again - try again junior - I did not dismiss it like you claim. You just let your knee go off without actually reading.

 

[Patranus]

No, i was suggesting they go get a second opinion since the military does in fact recognize it and that if they do have PTSD they should get the help they need. They need to be an advocate for themselves as the military system at times is a beast to get through - especially on the medical side.
Again, if they served for that long (2 wars) they should qualify for quite a bit of aid and training assistance from the military.

So once again - try again junior - I did not dismiss it like you claim. You just let your knee go off without actually reading.

But isn't that exactly the problem we are having today?

People are unwilling to take responsibility and put in minimal amount of work for something and instead expect everything to just be handed to them on a silver platter.

 

[Phokus]

No, i was suggesting they go get a second opinion since the military does in fact recognize it and that if they do have PTSD they should get the help they need. They need to be an advocate for themselves as the military system at times is a beast to get through - especially on the medical side.
Again, if they served for that long (2 wars) they should qualify for quite a bit of aid and training assistance from the military.

So once again - try again junior - I did not dismiss it like you claim. You just let your knee go off without actually reading.

No, i was pointing out the fact that you think he was going to be fine because he's just going to graduate school after serving in the military and be free of financial burden. He's going to face a much higher hurdle getting through school and/or getting employed/staying employed than your average civilian.

Also, with illnesses the military can be really fucked up when they need to redeploy injured troops or when they get discharge and the military doesn't approve the benefits they need due to injury/illness, it's not all roses as you're making it out to be.

 

[Phokus]

But isn't that exactly the problem we are having today?

People are unwilling to take responsibility and put in minimal amount of work for something and instead expect everything to just be handed to them on a silver platter.

When the pie is shrinking so much so quickly that not only the 'history majors' (that you deride) are fighting over it but also the business majors and engineering majors, then you have a huge fucking problem. I find it hilarious and sad that some of you conservative morons change your fucking tune when it's you who's getting fucked with layoffs (and yes, i've seen that at work, we've had a shit ton of layoffs).

 

[CADsortaGUY]

No, i was pointing out the fact that you think he was going to be fine because he's just going to graduate school after serving in the military and be free of financial burden. He's going to face a much higher hurdle getting through school and/or getting employed/staying employed than your average civilian.

Also, with illnesses the military can be really fucked up when they need to redeploy injured troops or when they get discharge and the military doesn't approve the benefits they need due to injury/illness, it's not all roses as you're making it out to be.

No, i didn't say they'd be fine, I didn't even suggest it. They'll have to work to get the diagnosis they think they have. They'll have to work to get the training/education they want but as I noted, the financial end of that MAY be a bit easier than many others due to service.
LOL, I'm the one here saying things AREN'T ALL ROSES you twit. You obviously didn't read what I posted. Try again.

 

[bfdd]

Phokus, those are other things we need to issue. Though you and I would probably disagree on a lot of the ways to attack it

 

[Phokus]

No, i didn't say they'd be fine, I didn't even suggest it. They'll have to work to get the diagnosis they think they have. They'll have to work to get the training/education they want but as I noted, the financial end of that MAY be a bit easier than many others due to service.
LOL, I'm the one here saying things AREN'T ALL ROSES you twit. You obviously didn't read what I posted. Try again.

No i read what you wrote, you're dismissing his plight because he gets educational benefits due to his service, but who the fuck cares when you're fucked from war? Does the fact that he gets educational benefits mitigate the fact that he'll still need to have a job?

Also, there have been many lawsuits by veterans who suffered PTSD who didn't get the benefits they need, and unfortunately not all veterans are aware of the lawsuits (i.e. they don't get the legal notices they're supposed to get to be part of the class action suits):

http://themilitaryobserver.blogspot.com/2010/08/oif-oef-class-action-ptsd-lawsuit.html

The military is often stingy with discharged veterans over these types of benefits. This happened with the 1st gulf war too, i remember the military just didn't want to deal with veterans who got fucked with PTSD even though they probably got it from chemical exposure too.

 

[bfdd]

Phokus, he chose to go to war. No one forced him. Unless like I said he was drafted. Was he drafted? If so, I'll understand your argument. If not then you're just refusing to allow the person to accept responsibility for their own actions/choices. He could have chose not to go to war.

 

[Phokus]

Phokus, he chose to go to war. No one forced him. Unless like I said he was drafted. Was he drafted? If so, I'll understand your argument. If not then you're just refusing to allow the person to accept responsibility for their own actions/choices. He could have chose not to go to war.

It's less and less of a choice these days, and unfortunately a lot of kids don't know WTF they're getting into when they sign up for the military (exacerbated by extremely unethical recruiting practices by the military and a self censoring corporate media who refuse to show the whole picture in terms of the real horrors of war).

Besides that, like i said before, if i were in a shit situation and there weren't any opportunities, even i would consider the military if it meant having my basic needs met, rather than starving in the street.

 

[bfdd]

Phokus, I haven't been exposed to the "unethical recruiting practices" so I can't comment, but I'll take your word for it until I can do my own research. I do agree with you on the media. There are many issues man, but there are still choices. If you think the only two choices are those, living on the street or joining the military, at any point in your life you're thinking way to small.

 

[Phokus]

Phokus, I haven't been exposed to the "unethical recruiting practices" so I can't comment, but I'll take your word for it until I can do my own research. I do agree with you on the media. There are many issues man, but there are still choices. If you think the only two choices are those, living on the street or joining the military, at any point in your life you're thinking way to small.

Read this article:

"Why Are Army Recruiters Killing Themselves?"

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1889152-1,00.html

The military puts a shit ton of pressure on recruiters to get new recruits, especially during wartime, and it forces them to do really unethical things and when they can't meet the demands they crack and kill themselves. This was a pretty big story.

The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are now the longest waged by an all-volunteer force in U.S. history. Even as soldiers rotate back into the field for multiple and extended tours, the Army requires a constant supply of new recruits. But the patriotic fervor that led so many to sign up after 9/11 is now eight years past. That leaves recruiters with perhaps the toughest, if not the most dangerous, job in the Army. Last year alone, the number of recruiters who killed themselves was triple the overall Army rate. Like posttraumatic stress disorder and traumatic brain injury, recruiter suicides are a hidden cost of the nation's wars.

Edit:

The responsibility for providing troop replacements falls to the senior noncommissioned officers who have chosen to make recruiting their career in the U.S. Army Recruiting Command (USAREC). They in turn put pressure on their local recruiters to "make mission" and generate the recruits — sometimes by any means necessary. Lawrence Kagawa retired last July after more than 20 years in uniform; he spent the latter half as a highly decorated recruiter, and his tenure included a stint in the Houston battalion from 2002 to 2005. "There's one set of values for the Army, and when you go to Recruiting Command, you're basically forced to do things outside of what would normally be considered to be moral or ethical," he says.

Edit2: The choices are SHRINKING for a lot of people. some people have choices, but if everyone is fighting for an ever smaller pie, more and more people would CERTAINLYH look to doing things they normally wouldn't (i.e. joining the military) if it means mere survival.

 

[Nebor]

Read this article:

"Why Are Army Recruiters Killing Themselves?"

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1889152-1,00.html

The military puts a shit ton of pressure on recruiters to get new recruits, especially during wartime, and it forces them to do really unethical things and when they can't meet the demands they crack and kill themselves. This was a pretty big story.



Edit:

That article is significantly dated. Recruiting has changed due to those incidents to incorporate more off time and less stress. And the collapse of the economy has put all branches of military recruiting well over 100% of goals. The Army is keeping people in the Delayed Entry Program for up to a year before allowing them to join now, because they have so many people vying for the jobs. Recruiting is now a cake job.

 

[Phokus]

That article is significantly dated. Recruiting has changed due to those incidents to incorporate more off time and less stress. And the collapse of the economy has put all branches of military recruiting well over 100% of goals. The Army is keeping people in the Delayed Entry Program for up to a year before allowing them to join now, because they have so many people vying for the jobs. Recruiting is now a cake job.

Even if recruiting has changed (and it's a 2009 article for God's sakes), that doesn't change the fact that:

a) There were/still are a lot of people in the military that wouldn't have been if they weren't pressured with unethical recruiting schemes

and

b) Going back to what i was saying about mere survival and 'choice' in joining the military. If people are depending on the military for a living, not out of patriotism or wanting a career out of it, then that's not a good thing either. Like i said, i could envision myself joining the military if i were desperate enough.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

No i read what you wrote, you're dismissing his plight because he gets educational benefits due to his service, but who the fuck cares when you're fucked from war? Does the fact that he gets educational benefits mitigate the fact that he'll still need to have a job?

Also, there have been many lawsuits by veterans who suffered PTSD who didn't get the benefits they need, and unfortunately not all veterans are aware of the lawsuits (i.e. they don't get the legal notices they're supposed to get to be part of the class action suits):

http://themilitaryobserver.blogspot.com/2010/08/oif-oef-class-action-ptsd-lawsuit.html

The military is often stingy with discharged veterans over these types of benefits. This happened with the 1st gulf war too, i remember the military just didn't want to deal with veterans who got fucked with PTSD even though they probably got it from chemical exposure too.

Again I'm not dismissing ANYTHING about their "plight" except that they choose to whine about it like this. There is a path forward for them - they have to choose it though. Whining isn't going to fix it - THEY have to fix it. If they have PTSD, they have a path to work on that. Schooling - there is a path for that. So again - I'm just pointing out that the things they are whining about can be addressed and it has NOTHING to do with 99%ers or whatever these whiners are. They served - they should take advantage of the opportunities available and push to make things happen - not whine about it. sheesh.

 

[Phokus]

Again I'm not dismissing ANYTHING about their "plight" except that they choose to whine about it like this. There is a path forward for them - they have to choose it though. Whining isn't going to fix it - THEY have to fix it. If they have PTSD, they have a path to work on that. Schooling - there is a path for that. So again - I'm just pointing out that the things they are whining about can be addressed and it has NOTHING to do with 99%ers or whatever these whiners are. They served - they should take advantage of the opportunities available and push to make things happen - not whine about it. sheesh.

Sometimes i wish i could live in your fantasy world where facts, nuance, context, and intelligence were optional/nonexistent and we could just waive our magic wands without considering the circumstances of the situation. You and your ilk who use binary logic to define our world is exactly why this world is fucked.

 

[JSt0rm]

The Occupy Wall Street protestors are probably the very folks the Tea Party are protesting against; there is probably fairly complete overlap in the Venn Diagram between them and the people whom Rick Santelli's rant was about.

Oh.

I thought they were protesting against wallstreet bailouts and other government spending.

To find out now that they were protesting unemployed young people makes their cause seem even more stupid.