You aren't a moderate.
OWS is doing nothing to stop people from expressing whatever opinion it is that they might want to express, and this is on purpose.
I believe you. However, that doesn't change the fact that OWS itself is doing little, or nothing, to stop the supposedly fringe whackos from quickly becoming the face of the movement.
That banner is indicative of how most moderates (centrists?) view the movement. If your hope is to being us to your side, then you need to start doing a much better job to clean up and present a unified message -- one that doesn't even HINT at being anti-American in nature.
Good luck with that...
You aren't a moderate.
OWS is doing nothing to stop people from expressing whatever opinion it is that they might want to express, and this is on purpose.
From some stories i've read they have applied pressure to keep people from reporting crimes against them to the police and to the press. I guess that's not classified as an opinion though.
In your opinion, presumably based on the stories you're fed from nutter news sources. I just did a quick check of the mainstream media sites. The fringe is not their focus.I believe you. However, that doesn't change the fact that OWS itself is doing little, or nothing, to stop the supposedly fringe whackos from quickly becoming the face of the movement.
False. The pro-corruption right wing propaganda machine loves that banner I'm sure. It helps get people like you all worked up. I didn't see it on the three major media sites I just checked.That banner is indicative of how most moderates (centrists?) view the movement.
For the record, being anti-capitalism is not the same as being anti-American, no matter what your corporate masters tell you. That said, it's not a position OWS should be associated with. It is not capitalism per se that's the problem, it's capitalism without effective checks and balances.If your hope is to being us to your side, then you need to start doing a much better job to clean up and present a unified message -- one that doesn't even HINT at being anti-American in nature.
Good luck with that...
You're pro-corruption then, I take it? Why is it a "good thing" to stop people from speaking out together against pervasive corruption?I'm sure all the violence, burning and looting will do a world of good for the OWS movement
Ultimately it will help speed up the demise of this little anarchist idiocy spree, so that's a good thing.
You're pro-corruption then, I take it? Why is it a "good thing" to stop people from speaking out together against pervasive corruption?
I've proposed a solid solution to corruption by some politicians in Washington, namely term limits. Term limits are adamantly opposed by those on the left, they'd rather have the same corrupt politicians that have been in office for 30, 40 or over 50 years and are responsible for much of the corruption stay in office. The ones that are "pro-corruption" are the ones that blame a corporation or a company because they followed the law and don't hold the crooked politicians that passed the corrupt laws to account.
What term limits actually do is increase the power of lobbyists and other interests outside the legislature because of the inexperience, temporary status, and overall lesser performance of the legislature.
Term limits are opposed by people who actually know how government works, not just 'libruls'.
You're pro-corruption then, I take it? Why is it a "good thing" to stop people from speaking out together against pervasive corruption?
Then enjoy your long term crooked politicians, they've done such a great job. It's spelled liberal btw, a term i rarely use since it means different things to different people, but everyone pretty much knows what "on the left" means and it isn't an insult.
What term limits actually do is increase the power of lobbyists and other interests outside the legislature because of the inexperience, temporary status, and overall lesser performance of the legislature.
Weird that this stuff all happens at night when it's harder to video tape everything that's going on.
Things are quiet during the day... Then the police come out at night... what a coincidence.
monovilliage : term limits is an excellent idea. Far too many politicians just set up shop. It's supposed to be a moderate paying, elected office. Why are half of them millionaires?
Why do so many of them end up working in super high paying jobs in the private sector when they leave office?
I disagree that term limits are the solution, though I agree they will help somewhat, especially given the current corrupt state of American politics. Unfortunately, as long as we allow effectively unlimited bribery of our elected officials, corruption will remain rampant.I've proposed a solid solution to corruption by some politicians in Washington, namely term limits.
Disagree. It's not a particularly partisan issue. They are plenty of the left who support term limits and plenty on the right who oppose them. There are pluses and minuses to term limits. They are not a silver bullet. Different people weigh those pros and cons differently.Term limits are adamantly opposed by those on the left,
There's plenty of blame for both. The fact that it's legal doesn't mean it's right. Further, it's legal in great part because those same special interests used their deep pockets to buy laws in their favor. Some of the worst corruption we see is perfectly legal today thanks to this circle of bribery.they'd rather have the same corrupt politicians that have been in office for 30, 40 or over 50 years and are responsible for much of the corruption stay in office. The ones that are "pro-corruption" are the ones that blame a corporation or a company because they followed the law and don't hold the crooked politicians that passed the corrupt laws to account.
What are you talking about? There was 3 hours live heli feed of the mob looting a nonprofit office and setting up barricades from dumpsters and what not.
Yes, unfortunately. The report I read about last night's Occupy Oakland violence is that the thousands of protestors who were there most of the day were peaceful. They eventually dispersed leaving (according to police) a group of about 100 that went looking for trouble. Those 100 taint the peaceful thousands.all the usual/expected reactions from the political spectrum.
Bottom line is OWS needs to deal with the angry element within its ranks...we know its there. It isn't going to go away, if anything the movement will descend into angrier (read idiotic) displays of dissent. That being said, there is no way for OWS to do what I just said.
It's going to get ugly.
Interesting. Perhaps you should learn to say what you mean then. You initially said you favored the "demise" of the whole OWS movement. Given that the OWS movement is protesting corruption, that seems to make you a corruption supporter. If instead all you really meant was you were opposed to violence, don't make the common nutter error of tarring the whole movement for the actions of a relative few.No, I'm against corruption, and I'm also against people breaking the law. As far as I'm concerned they can peacefully protest until the end of times, but if they break the law and impact other law abiding citizens they need to be dealt with as criminals. These idiots protesting and causing trouble does nothing to fix any of the real problems. To affect real change, you need to change DC. OWS should really be ODC, that's where the house cleaning needs to be.
Interesting. Perhaps you should learn to say what you mean then. You initially said you favored the "demise" of the whole OWS movement. Given that the OWS movement is protesting corruption, that seems to make you a corruption supporter. If instead all you really meant was you were opposed to violence, don't make the common nutter error of tarring the whole movement for the actions of a relative few.
But, but, but Bowfinger said it was nutter sources that said occupy's goal was to occupy foreclosed or vacant private property?
Gee, they did what they said they were going to do. Why is anybody surprised? They don't believe in private property. Remember one of the main tenants of communism is the abolition of private property. Remember your history folks, understand their motives.
Spidey, you're an idiot. It wasn't the main OWS movement that did those things. According to the Oakland PD, there were thousands of protestors in Oakland yesterday, and it was peaceful. (In part that's because the mayor told the PD to behave themselves. That was a big part of the story yesterday you undoubtedly missed because your nutter sources prefer you ignorant and outraged -- the mayor of Oakland expressed her support for OWS, essentially sanctioned peaceful protests, and told her police department to support their peaceful and lawful activities.)But, but, but Bowfinger said it was nutter sources that said occupy's goal was to occupy foreclosed or vacant private property?
Gee, they did what they said they were going to do. Why is anybody surprised? They don't believe in private property. Remember one of the main tenants of communism is the abolition of private property. Remember your history folks, understand their motives.
I posted this last night when i saw it from the heli footage:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=32513390&postcount=228
The looted building belongs to Travelers Aid Society, not vacant
http://maps.google.com/maps/place?q=travelers+aid+oakland&hl=en&cid=5134644588533926785
Spidey, you're an idiot. It wasn't the main OWS movement that did those things. According to the Oakland PD, there were thousands of protestors in Oakland yesterday, and it was peaceful. (In part that's because the mayor told the PD to behave themselves. That was a big part of the story yesterday you undoubtedly missed because your nutter sources prefer you ignorant and outraged -- the mayor of Oakland expressed her support for OWS, essentially sanctioned peaceful protests, and told her police department to support their peaceful and lawful activities.)
Most (all?) of the violence was later that night, when a band of "about 100" started causing problems after the main group went home (or to their camp, whatever) for the night. That is certainly a problem OWS needs to condemn, and prevent as best they can. It is coming from the OWS fringe, however, and is not something the OWS core supports.
I am certainly a moderate, or centrist, by any measure; and I'm an independent who has never voted along party lines. Hell, I even voted for our current President!You aren't a moderate.
OWS is doing nothing to stop people from expressing whatever opinion it is that they might want to express, and this is on purpose.