OCing Sempron 3100+, Paris or Palermo core???

[firebirdude]

Ok, set on the Palermo core. Done with that.

But, I don't wanna spend that much.... I was just saying for that much I could buy a Palermo core 3100+ and decent mobo separately. I'd like to spend less then that really......

 

[furballi]

There are several minor issues with the Biostar:

-On board video which will add more heat and MAY reduce the performance of the CPU. You will also lose some physical RAM to drive the video. I don't know much about this design architechture but perhaps ZAP could run some tests to confirm.
-Two PCI slots.
-PCI-E slot. This may be a positive if you already have a PCI-E video card. Since the 754 is suppose to be a value rig, I doubt that you will want to pay premium for a high-end PCI-E card.

I also don't like the location of the floppy connector. I want the most bangs for my $. And any board with a PCI-E connector will cost more. Also don't need the On Board Video. Why pay extra for things that you don't need or may not use in the future?

The ECS NF3 special from Fry's is only $45. It lacks the overclocking finesse of the Biostar, but if you stick with the 9x multiplier core, then you should not have any problem running +2.5GHz with a good chip. It is possible to auto load Clockgen to advance the FSB beyond 250MHz. I'm currently running at 271MHz with 5:6 memory divider (2.5-3-3-5-1T). Another little bonus for me is that this ECS board line up almost perfectly with the side intake duct on my Antec SLK3000B case. The 120mm CPU fan on my Zalman 7700Cu is off 97% of the time. It only comes on when the CPU temp is above 40C. The two 120mm x 38mm Panaflos draw cold room air directly into the CPU cooler.

I need at least 3 PCI slots. One is for the USR5610B hardware based modem as a backup to broadband. Second is for the audio card for better sound and reduce the load on the MB. Third is a wireless b/g adapter card. Will probably add a 4th PCI card for audio/video editing.

This may be a great deal if you have extra cash, or only need two PCi slots. The $70 tag for a micro ATX is just too much for me. I paid $75 AR for the 939 Abit AX8 last year with all the bells and whistles.

BTW, how many memory divider does this board support? Does Biostar use Japanese capacitors?

 

[Zap]

firebirddude, are you going to use it to replace your Barton setup or is it for another build/upgrade? What parts were you hoping to re-use? Were you selling off replaced parts?

furballi, I haven't used the onboard video beyond testing to see that it worked. Memory has the usual 100/133/166/200. The Biostar Tforce boards use the same capacitors as my DFI LANPARTY Ultra-D. Those are the really small all metal things by the CPU socket instead of the typical tall capacitors with the shrinkwrap looking stuff around them. As for bang-for-buck, the ECS certainly has it there. BTW, I reviewed that board also... in the Motherboards section. I certainly liked it and it was (at the time) the best ECS board I ever owned.

 

[firebirdude]

Zap, no this rig is for a friend on a budget. I'm actually trying to out-price dell. She gets a discount through dell and was looking at a
2.8 P4 CPU
512MB DDR2
160G 7200RPM HD
17" LCD
DVD Burner
Intel 900 graphics
Keyboard, mouse & speakers
Total= $519 shipped

I know this setup will out do the 2.8 P4, and a simple $50 video card will blow those integrated graphics away.... but it's tough getting all this for around the same price. Friggin 17" LCD is no less then $190 shipped alone. So far I have:
3100+ CPU=$78 shipped
MOBO=$54 shipped
512MB DDR RAM= $35 shipped
DVD Burner= $33 shipped
Case=$31 shipped
160G HD= $64 shipped
17" LCD= $194 shipped

That $489 and I still need the graphics card, mouse, keyboard and speakers. Haven't picked a particular video card yet, but probably an FX5200 or something. I figure I could do those three things for another $70 shipped. Grand total of $559 shipped. I'd like to shrink that total by about 40 bucks.

 

[Zap]

Don't try to compete price-wise with Dell deals, you will lose.

My recommendation would be to get one of the boards with integrated Radeon or Geforce graphics - the Biostar Geforce6100 is only around $65 shipped and the IGP should be better than the Intel GMA900, plus the upgrade option for PCIe. The Geforce6100 IGP is also likely better than an FX5200.

Actually, my amended recommendation is to not try too hard because if you build her the machine, you'll forever be responsible for it whether a part dies or she clicks on the email attachment like you told her not to, or she downloads screensavers and such and can't understand why the system is lagging and there are tons of porn popups... so she'll expect you to fix it for free because she bought it from you. There are also people (I know some personally) who can't get away from the idea of "name brands." Then there are people (who I also know some personally) who just looks at the bottom line regardless of performance or quality.

BTW, that price from Dell shipped, is that including sales tax? They seem to charge tax no matter what state you are in.

If you still want to build it for her, "sell" her on quality. Ask her if she wants the mass-market and super cheap Kia of the computer world and liken that to the Dell. For performance sake you should price in 1GB RAM and a larger hard drive and tell her those are better choices (they are). Then ask her to price out the same Dell system but with those upgrades... price should shoot up.

 

[firebirdude]

Very good comments Zap. Thank you.

The price from Dell includes everything. Like I said, she gets an additonal discount from Dell through her work.

I seriously doubt she will play games at all. Probably just the cheezy yahoo onlines games. lol So the Biostar board is a great idea. I see that it is MicroATX in size. Not real fimilar with that. Just means I need a MicroATX case correct?

 

[furballi]

Go for the ECS NF3/2800 Sempron at Fry's for $80. That's $50 cheaper than the 3100. You can overclock the CPU to 2GHz.

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: firebirdude
I seriously doubt she will play games at all. Probably just the cheezy yahoo onlines games. lol So the Biostar board is a great idea. I see that it is MicroATX in size. Not real fimilar with that. Just means I need a MicroATX case correct?

The integrated graphics is good enough to play all the 3D games, just not as pretty or smooth as your typical 7800GT. Think of it as the lowest end 6000 series, because that's what it is - a notch below the Geforce 6200.

Micro ATX boards can be used in normal ATX cases or mATX cases. Note that this board uses a 24 pin power connector, not 20 pin. Keep that in mind when buying cases/PSUs for this board if you go this route.

furballi mentioned another option. You'll still have to get an AGP card, but you can get one that will play those Yahoo games at the highest FPS the games can support for pretty cheap... I've seen refurbished AGP cards for around $15. Those Fry's deals are great values.

 

[firebirdude]

Well got some news. For some crazy reason I decided to check out Fry's Outpost webpage again.... low and behold... the 3100+/MOBO combo deal is back on there and in stock! So I snatched that up for $90+$8s/h. It comes with an ECS mobo with the NF3 250 chipset. One thing, it didn't say which core CPU. But I didn't really care for that price.

One last question... do you guys think it's worth the money to snag some PC4000 or 3500 RAM or just stick with PC3200? Keep in mind I plan on OCing this thing a pretty good amount.

 

[furballi]

Corsair VS works best with that board. Was able to push my sticks up to 230MHz 2.5-3-3-5-1T at 1:1 memory divider. These sticks should do at least 215MHz. My Kingston DDR400 Value RAM would only run at 2T with two modules.

******/app/productdetails.asp?linkid=7002&item=20-145-440

 

[firebirdude]

Thanks for your reply, but your link didn't work. I assume you're talking about this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820145479

If so, what's the difference between the above RAM and this RAM?:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820145026

The second one has a listed Cas of 2.5 and is slightly cheaper. Lower the Cas number, the better correct? Why would anyone buy the first one?

 

[Zap]

Get the lower latency RAM. Funny things happen with pricing. Don't hurt your brain over it, just accept it and move on. As for faster RAM, if you get PC4000 you can run your RAM at full speed using the highest HTT the board supports in BIOS. That will give you 5/8 the performance of dual channel.

 

[furballi]

I'd go with 2 x 512MB Corsair VS and use the 5:6 memory divider. You can bump the Vcore up to the max % that the MB will support when you overclock the CPU. A good chip will do +2.5GHz (equivalent to an A64 3700 in dual channel at stock speed). Note that the nominal Vcore for Paris is 1.5V.

Go to Chiefvalue.com and search for

CORSAIR ValueSelect 1GB (2 x 512MB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) Unbuffered Dual Channel Kit System Memory Model VS1GBKIT400 - Retail $69.40 FREE shipping.

 

[firebirdude]

Just received the MOBO/CPU combo in the mail. Freakin Paris core 3100+. Bah. No worries though. According to the above articles, they got the Paris core up to 2.52G and the Palermo up to 2.68G. Not a big deal. OH! And the CPU came OEM. No CPU fan at all. Maybe I'll snag up a better-then-stock fan and be able to push that number a little higher.