OCZ SSD question.

[Puppies04]

Yeah... whatever. Go troll somewhere else.

You know I actually had a decent opinion of you until tonight, if all you can do when someone disagrees with you and asks for you to back up your claims is call them a troll then good luck.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

You know I actually had a decent opinion of you until tonight, if all you can do when someone disagrees with you and asks for you to back up your claims is call them a troll then good luck.

The proof is everywhere. If you've blinded yourself and can't see it then that's another thing entirely. As of now, it appears to me as if you're trolling.

You're putting the Crucial M4 series as having the same reliability as the OCZ 3 series, which is completely false. They couldn't be farther, whether you look at user reviews or the forums. Some of the people putting up reviews are dumb, that's true. But when you keep having half the people reporting significant problems, you've got problems.

Like I said earlier, if it's significantly cheaper, then it'll be worth it to many. A $20 difference I think isn't significant and not worth having to deal with potential issues, which OCZ does have over Crucial.

Let's not even talk about the Vertex Plus series.

 

[Broheim]

I was here, i was also here when the MD (or whatever his title was) of OCZ did a full and frank interview with anand explaining exaclty what happened and appologized. I was also reading reviews like this...

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ocz-vertex-2-25nm-ssd,2867.html

Which if you actually read, you will notice that the word clusterf**k as you so sweetly put it earlier doesn't really apply unless you want to focus on all the bad bits without taking anything else into account.

I would ask where you were at the same time but i already know you were busy getting that OCZ=Satan idea stuck in your head without bothering with those little annoyances called facts that keep springing up in this thread.

Am I claiming OCZ are perfect... No and i never have done. Am i posting lies rumours and opinions dressed up as facts about a company i have a personal vendetta against....No. Am I claiming the M4 is a bad drive...No.

this is not about the performance of drive...

this is about a company
1. maximizing profits by switching 34nm NAND out with cheaper 25nm NAND and then not telling anyone and not adjusting prices.
2. then lying about it when people notice worse performance.
3. then admitting to it only when deleting threads and denying hasn't worked.
4. then telling people they have to pay the difference for for 34nm NAND eventhough they already paid for it.
5. and only after a giant s**tstorm do they agree to foot the bill themselves.

OCZ has also had a tendency to overrate their ram.

after these series of events I make it a point to always inform people asking for advice, just what kind of company OCZ is.

 

[Puppies04]

i don't think we are going to agree on this issue so i suggest we just leave it, but before i go can i just make a couple of leaving points.

*If the proof is everywhere why can't you link some

*I really don't understand why you think im trolling, you are the one who won't back up his claims while repeatedly posting the same "facts"

*

half the people reporting significant problems

.... seriously and even if that is true in some misguided way this is a place people come with problems not to report everythign is "A" ok, are you suggesting OCZ have a 50% drive failure rate? I know 7 or 8 people from all over europe with gen 3 ssds and all apart from two have OCZ drives (the remaining 2 having intel and crucial) is it possible for you to admit that maybe more problems turn up on these forums regarding OCZ drives because they are selling more units.

* Crucial aren't free of these "potential issues" you keep banging on about, go to their forum and look at the people having problems with their M4s.

This discussion has degraded past the point of no return for me now. Can we take our opinions and go seperate ways, i'm off to bed g'night.

 

[Saldir]

Install windows with hot plugging disabled and watch alot of the issues with OCZ drives disappear .This is assuming you have the option in your bios,Gigabyte doesn't for example. And I've had zero issues with the Gigabyte boards and SSD's other than an issue with their new bios's,which they are working with me and a few others to take care of.

Also keep in mind one of the things Intel pushed for is partial slumber APM,yet they disable it on their SSD's. That's not suspicious at all is it.
Here is a post from an OCZ official......

The marvel based drives such as c400 and Intel 510 do not enable APM or Auto partial to slumber
1222 does not support Auto partial to slumber
2281 does support Auto partial to slumber in the FW you guys have...we are now testing it without.

So we are now turning off features the host controller supports and the  drive supports BUT in the interest of stability (seeing as our  competitors have it disabled) we are testing with it also disabled.

Call it strange..weird, or what ever you like but I find it strange the  510's have a feature disabled that Intel practically invented and is a  key part of the new sata 3.1 spec.

This is why I feel we will eventually need more than 1 firmware for 2281, some boards like Auto partial to slumber, some do not...its the most confusing thing I have ever seen.

There ARE some issues with the Sandy Bridge chip-sets,which don't help the matter...like BSOD'ing at idle due to lower than proper voltage that are leading some(again,some) to think its an SSD causing the issue.

OCZ's latest firmware disables the partial slumber and a few other release notes i cant remember at the moment.Alot of the other SSD vendors also disable partial slumber. Honestly if follow OCZ's install guide to the letter i doubt you'll have many issues.I've had 2 different OCZ drives and zero issues.People don't realize how important it is to follow that guide to the letter including shorting/taking the battery outta the MB after a firmware flash. Hell most don't even understand what windows W.E.I actually does.They think it's just a benchmark.

With Intel putting Sandforce controllers in their drives now,how much you guys wanna bet new RST drivers plus motherboard OROMS come out that address most the issues? Anyone got a grand to prove me wrong?

 

[zCypher]

I cringe to think what it is like to work for their support teams hehe. But seriously guys can't we all just get along? Everyone has brought something valuable to the discussion and we don't all have to agree on everything. No need to start flinging poo at each other.

I've had my Vertex2 fail in less than 6 months, and prior to its failure I got a Vertex3 for my mom who also started having identical symptoms (within the first month). I think that's enough for anyone to dump the brand, but I understand there are lots of issues not necessarily exclusive to OCZ too. The tech is still maturing, compatibility across controllers/chipsets/firmware/wtv is far from perfect - so those failure rates are really no big surprise.

I think it's a valid argument to say OCZ has many issues while the M4 specifically has a pretty good track record, suffice to say that countless people will be trouble free with their OCZ drives as well. It's a pointless exercise to argue really. Let's not pick apart peoples statements, it's clear that "half of" was not intended to mean strictly 50%. I got the point.

If the question is, is it worth jumping on an Agility 3 if it's a sweet deal, the answer is undoubtedly yes. Saying should you go with OCZ vs M4 in same price range, well that question is definitely begging for a heated discussion hehe.

You definitely do see people on this forum taking a liking to the M4. I'd be interested to see the latest failure rates.

Edit: it seems the numbers we're looking at are "return" rates, not actual failure rates. That means something entirely different.

This was an interesting read http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ssd-reliability-failure-rate,2923.html

 

[jvroig]

LOL_Wut_Axel, Puppies04, knock it off.

Debate like mature adults, or stop talking to each other or put each other on ignore.

You are in the tech forums, not in OT, and certainly not in facebook.

Moderator jvroig

 

[groberts101]

With Intel putting Sandforce controllers in their drives now,how much you guys wanna bet new RST drivers plus motherboard OROMS come out that address most the issues?

you stole my line! Been saying that for months now. LOL

And don't forget that when Intel actually finally answers the door to Sandforce?(they've been knocking for quite some time it appears) they'll eliminate many of the issues from the firmware's side and it will all start to mesh for once. It is NOT a 1 sided issue to be sure.

And I laugh out loud everytime these guys throw those return numbers around. Gotta be credible since it came from the internet no doubt.

Ever wonder why none of the mfgrs never release actual return or RMA numbers? And then out of those.. ever wonder how many can simply be destructive flashed and reinstalled without issue? Didn't think so. :hmm:

 

[Coup27]

With Intel putting Sandforce controllers in their drives now

I keep up to date with SSDs but I have not heard this. Could you tell me how you know of this?

 

[MarkLuvsCS]

I keep up to date with SSDs but I have not heard this. Could you tell me how you know of this?

It isn't completely factual at the moment but everyone seems to believe the next gen intel drives will be powered by a sandforce controller. I've been searching for more information regarding this exact topic, but everything appears to be part of the same rumors.

 

[Saldir]

It isn't completely factual at the moment but everyone seems to believe the next gen intel drives will be powered by a sandforce controller. I've been searching for more information regarding this exact topic, but everything appears to be part of the same rumors.

Truth.It's mostly rumors from insiders saying that's the case. We shall see i suppose. Honestly i hope its true,alot of the issues with the new Intel chip-sets and Sandforce SSD's will cease.

A HUGE,i cant stress this enough,part of people having issues with OCZ drives is them refusing to follow the instructions 100% after a firmware flash.They will do 1 or 2 things and expect a miracle. Granted,it should not be this difficult.

 

[groberts101]

here's the easiest one I could find on the subject.
http://vr-zone.com/articles/intel-s...aster-tougher-successor-of-ssd-510/13542.html#

and here
http://www.techradar.com/news/compu...e/intel-claims-highest-performing-ssd-1026997

and here
http://www.informationweek.com/news/storage/systems/231601409


here's another cool topic. Who'da thunk that so much new hardware could interact so oddly, eh? LOL
http://lenzfire.com/2011/07/do-you-have-problems-with-intel-chipsets-and-ssds-75527/

 

[Idontcare]

I own both an Intel G2 and an OCZ V3, what can I say is that they both work as advertised.

To find out though that the issues with Sandforce controllers could be coming back to an Intel-backed feature in the standard is just ripe for irony.

These are the same guys that borked their own Sata-6G controllers, have yet to get native USB3.0 support rolled out, and have delayed SB-E time and again because their PCIE-3.0 controller is borked...and there's any wonder that something rotten in denmark leads a paper-trail to the address of Intel HQ?

I don't see anything malicious afoot, but come-on, 2011 isn't exactly the year of Intel pulling their stuff together. If it does turn out to be true (this APM thing the OCZ official mentions) it will just be one more "yet another Intel goof" for the year. They can't win them all the time.

 

[=Wendy=]

I own both an Intel G2 and an OCZ V3, what can I say is that they both work as advertised.

To find out though that the issues with Sandforce controllers could be coming back to an Intel-backed feature in the standard is just ripe for irony.

These are the same guys that borked their own Sata-6G controllers, have yet to get native USB3.0 support rolled out, and have delayed SB-E time and again because their PCIE-3.0 controller is borked...and there's any wonder that something rotten in denmark leads a paper-trail to the address of Intel HQ?

I don't see anything malicious afoot, but come-on, 2011 isn't exactly the year of Intel pulling their stuff together. If it does turn out to be true (this APM thing the OCZ official mentions) it will just be one more "yet another Intel goof" for the year. They can't win them all the time.

Said like a true gentleman.

Intel isn't bullet proof, no one is, and perhaps their tik tok targets for new chipsets and CPUs just doesn't give them enough time to iron out all the bugs before a product is released into the wild.

 

[semo]

Puppies04, OCZ have not been taken to court over the 25nm transition fiasco as the only people that understood the issue are techies and not lawyers. We can't barge into OCZ's offices and get the proof you so desperately seek.

All I can do is point you towards a topic I started around that time. Follow it and make up your own mind. The situation got so bad that Anand had to try and defend OCZ. He was satisfied with OCZ eventually because he spoke to their techs and got them to make minor changes to their policies. The rest of us were not satisfied (for me, nothing short of a mass recall of all affected drives will do). As it is now, if someone bought a nerfed 25nm V2 drive, they would be stuck with it until they find out they were screwed over and complain to OCZ.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2143367&highlight=ocz

 

[4ghz]

Personally, I will never buy a OCZ ssd again. I purchased 2 in the last month. Neither of them work correctly. I got a 120gb Vertex Plus that corrupts data. Read all the bad newegg and tigerdirect reviews and that's pretty much what I'm experiencing. Good thing tigerdirect allows returns for a refund on it. I also purchased a 60gb Solid 3 from Newegg. I get random bsod and upon reboot the drive disappears and my motherboard hangs trying to detect it. I have to physically unplug the sata cable and replug to get it detected again. Unfortunately, Newegg doesn't allow refunds only exchange. However if I exchange I might not get it back in time to send in the $25 rebate. Maybe I'll just use it as an external drive or something...

 

[nanaki333]

ever since i updated my v3 to the latest firmware, they've been doing great. the 120GB gets noticably slower the more data that goes on it than the M4 i used to have in my work PC though. the 240GB in my wife's computer screams with no bsod at all now. took awhile, but they're finally usable. just like when the first SF based drives came out. after about 7 or 8 firmware revisions, they became really nice drives.

 

[StrangerGuy]

Puppies04, OCZ have not been taken to court over the 25nm transition fiasco as the only people that understood the issue are techies and not lawyers. We can't barge into OCZ's offices and get the proof you so desperately seek.

All I can do is point you towards a topic I started around that time. Follow it and make up your own mind. The situation got so bad that Anand had to try and defend OCZ. He was satisfied with OCZ eventually because he spoke to their techs and got them to make minor changes to their policies. The rest of us were not satisfied (for me, nothing short of a mass recall of all affected drives will do). As it is now, if someone bought a nerfed 25nm V2 drive, they would be stuck with it until they find out they were screwed over and complain to OCZ.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2143367&highlight=ocz

It's like every each of their product line tends to be problematic; RAM, PSUs, SSDs you name it. To be fair every vendor seems to have SSD issues, but you don't see other RAM and PSU makers getting as much flak as OCZ does. Their track record speaks badly for them.

 

[zlejedi]

If you don't know what a statistic is let me demonstrate with some gen 2 data

For the first time, we are including SSDs in our returns rates. Here are the figures by manufacturer:

- Intel 0.59%
- Corsair 2.17%
- Crucial 2.25%
- Kingston 2.39%
- OCZ 2.93%

Taken from behardware.com.

Ohhhh 2.25% vs 2.93% I don't call that either a "lot less" or "notoriously unreliable" would you like to clarify what you mean.

That's previous gen data before Crap Force 2xxx series controlers were utilised. Personally I wouldn't advise Sand Force based drive even to worst enemy when you can get drives that aren't known for problems like Crucial M4 and Samsung 470.

Yeah they won't have as nice numbers in synthetic and pseudo-real world tests (like Anandtech does) as Sand Force drive but all the sites testing them with real world apps show minimal performance loses.

 

[Puffnstuff]

OCZ just released new firmware for the new drives that is supposed to help improve things.

 

[ingeborgdot]

How will the raptor compare to ssd?

 

[LokutusofBorg]

The tendency for people to jump on any OCZ hate thread they can get their meaty typing fingers on is getting really old. Move on people.

How will the raptor compare to ssd?

Anand's original SSD articles/reviews always included a regular HDD and a Raptor in the graphs. The HDD was like 6, the Raptor was like 12, and all the SSDs were vying with each other up in the 50 to 60 range (those are made up numbers just to illustrate the difference in performance all those graphs used to show). That's why people say that even the crappier SSDs are far and away better than any and all HDDs. Anand doesn't include spinning platter drives on his SSD graphs anymore. It's pointless.

 

[zlejedi]

The tendency for people to jump on any OCZ hate thread they can get their meaty typing fingers on is getting really old. Move on people.

People would move on if reviewers had balls to put in huge red letters "don't buy this crap" at end of every Sand Force 2 drive review. Since they don't we need to save as many people as we can from this junk.

 

[=Wendy=]

People would move on if reviewers had balls to put in huge red letters "don't buy this crap" at end of every Sand Force 2 drive review. Since they don't we need to save as many people as we can from this junk.

Reviewers report what they see and experience, NOT what YOU want them to say just because that is your personal opinion!

 

[semo]

Reviewers report what they see and experience, NOT what YOU want them to say just because that is your personal opinion!

When Anand did his first review for the Vertex 3, he gave it nothing but praise while everyone was complaining about their nerfed V2s. After much pressure, Anand eventually covered the story (see link in my previous post), but he burried it inside another review article about the V3.