OCZ vertex 4 uses marvell controller

[Coup27]

It. Doesn't. Matter.

The NAND is from Marvell, not some crappy no-name company.

Lol ok, you win, the NAND is from Marvell.

 

[ElFenix]

The NAND is from Marvell

no, it is not.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

It is hard to take your posts seriously when you cannot differentiate between a NAND controller and the NAND flash memory.

Marvell does not manufacture NAND flash memory.

Oh, I missed one word. This. Changes. Everything.

 

[Coup27]

Well. Actually. It. Does. Make. A massive. Difference.

 

[GoSharks]

Oh, I missed one word. This. Changes. Everything.

It is general convention that when somebody uses 'NAND' in the context of SSDs, that they mean 'NAND flash memory,' and definitely not the controller.

The second PCB is home to 448GB of Intel's 25nm MLC-HET NAND, spread across 28 TSSOP packages. The third PCB is only present if you order the 800GB version, and it adds an extra 448GB of NAND (another 28 packages). Even in a fully populated three-board stack, the 910 only occupies a single PCIe slot.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5743/intels-ssd-910-400800gb-mlchet-pcie-shipping-in-1h-2012

Makes a world of difference. When I read your posts, I saw somebody that is very uninformed.

 

[groberts101]

This discussion is not based around the technical advantages of their chosen path or anything like that. It is based on yet again OCZ's questionable public relations and customer deception. OCZ released Octane in like Nov 11 against a wash of articles all over the web about how this is OCZ's first Indilinx in house controller and all of the advantages that would bring over two dodgy generations of SandForce controllers. OCZ were happy to ride that wave even pushing it themselves with their "Indilinx Infused" (which I now think is very "clever") knowing full well they hadn't done anything different than Crucial with the m4 or Intel with the 510. At most it sounds like they convinced Marvell to bump the clock a bit.

Based on the title of this thread, it can be construed in many ways. Saying that OCZ "scammed you".. especially when.. "you".. don't even own the damned thing, is really just preaching to the chior around this joint. Guess who the thread is going to attract?

I can only tell you that without a doubt here.. the Indilinx firmware is better than any other Marvell based drive I've tested so far(M4 and the 510). Obviously not as fast on the original Octane due to plain old nand.. but the on-the-fly garbage collection is top notch.

But if you don't beat the piss outta your drives with writes or use raid arrays without trim pass-through?.. then it's probably best to just be happy with what you have and don't split such small hairs.

So, until those who want to piss and moan about it.. can actually design their own SSD's and firmware code?.. you have to take what you can get in the current market.

If being told everything and knowing exactly what hardware and firmware code weaknesses you're getting is a requirement?.. good luck with that.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

It is general convention that when somebody uses 'NAND' in the context of SSDs, that they mean 'NAND flash memory,' and definitely not the controller.


http://www.anandtech.com/show/5743/intels-ssd-910-400800gb-mlchet-pcie-shipping-in-1h-2012

Makes a world of difference. When I read your posts, I saw somebody that is very uninformed.

I missed one word. This. Changes. Everything.

Clearly, this is not nitpicking from your part and you didn't miss everything else I wrote. Missing one work clearly invalidates everything else.

Let's get back on topic:
Them using a Marvell controller doesn't matter. In fact, that makes it better.

 

[GoSharks]

I missed one word. This. Changes. Everything.

Clearly, this is not nitpicking from your part and you didn't miss everything else I wrote. Missing one work clearly invalidates everything else.

You made 4 posts in this thread before I replied, to which I understood to be regarding NAND. Four posts that I processed as "This guy has no clue." Yeah it makes a big difference.

 

[Coup27]

Based on the title of this thread, it can be construed in many ways. Saying that OCZ "scammed you".. especially when.. "you".. don't even own the damned thing, is really just preaching to the chior around this joint. Guess who the thread is going to attract?

I do agree with you on that, "ocz scammed you" would not have been my choice of words.

 

[Old Hippie]

Bottom line is they misled everybody to think that Octane and Vertex 4 was an in house job under their newly acquired Indilinx brand and it's nothing of the sort.

Yep!

What doesn't matter is if it's good or bad.

It's just the latest inconsistency in a long line of inconsistencies that puts marketing/sales/hype above anything else.

 

[blckgrffn]

Yep!

What doesn't matter is if it's good or bad.

It's just the latest inconsistency in a long line of inconsistencies that puts marketing/sales/hype above anything else.

Right.

I actually would have felt better knowing it was a Marvell controller up front. How is that hard for OCZ to grasp?

Ride the M4/Crucial/Marvell good times wave.

 

[Shmee]

Ya I am pretty sure the current title is far from the best possible, sounds more like bait for flame wars. I think something like "vertex 4 actually uses marvell controller" would be much better.

 

[GlacierFreeze]

OP must also think Dell makes their own motherboards and processors.... Dell is scamming!!! Lol....

 

[Coup27]

OP must also think Dell makes their own motherboards and processors.... Dell is scamming!!! Lol....

Congratulations. You have managed to miss everything in this thread.

 

[xman34312]

Congratulations. You have managed to miss everything in this thread.

to the op, don' really understand your excessive hate for OCZ. is it ocz's fault that sf couldn't get their bsod error fixed? sounds like intel users have been reporting bsods lately.

is it a bad thing that ocz is now using marvell controllers? marvell has been proven. also ocz forum mod has already said this is an exclusive chip for ocz only.

it was developed co-jointly by indilinx and marvell.

are you an OCZ stock basher? or are you just sipping the haterade?

 

[TemjinGold]

Guys, I think the issue is this:

1) OCZ has a long history of distrust from customers due to their products having problems.
2) OCZ has blamed said problems in the past on the fact that they used off-the-shelf parts, which meant they did not have full control over the QA process.
3) In an attempt to regain trust, OCZ claims that said SSDs will now be completely in-house. This will grant them complete control over the QA process.
4) It is now discovered that the "completely in-house" part is a lie.

The issue isn't whether the Marvell thing works or not. The issue is that OCZ outright lied in an attempt to regain the trust that they've lost for a long time. Companies shouldn't stoop to lying to their customers as a way to gain trust. As the Marvell thing is clearly NOT in-house, OCZ is back to "not having full control over the QA process." In other words, they are in fact the same OCZ of old just with a different maker for their controller.

Not expressing any opinion on the Marvell chip. Just saying that OCZ's QA process is no better than it was before.

 

[Elixer]

Lol, the first I learned before buying an SSD was: Don't buy an OCZ SSD.

What is it about OCZ that you didn't like ? They were the first to use Sandforce, and they took on the brunt of the complaints until (all?) issues were fixed to the point of Intel is using Sandforce now as well.
Well, I should say most all, since the firmware on the new SSD they sent is still the same one that I sent back, and to this day, they have no idea why the SSD went into panic mode, and there hasn't been a new firmware release for the Vertex 2 for many moons.

They are using another controller again, as are many other SSD vendors. I guess they are also using custom firmware, though, we can't really know for sure.
Do I fault them for trying something new ? Nope.
Does it really matter who makes the controller at this point ? Not really, most people could care less, they just look at performance numbers and that is it.

Nobody likes to have a dead product, and I myself have had 2 RMAs with my SSD, but each time, they were quick on the RMA, and got a new unit back quickly.
I also have had dead motherboard from various companies, dead monitors, dead HDs (with back to back FAILED RMAs from Seagate), dead video cards (MSI took 3, yes, 3 RMAs to finally get back a good unit), bad UPS (from APC & CyberPower)

As a whole, OCZ does treat its customers pretty well, which is more than I can say about other companies that I had to deal with RMA service with.

 

[bradley]

OCZ talks up the 'Indilinx Infused' Vertex 4 SSD *March 8th, 2012*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3TMVUXD

I enjoyed watching this OCZ rep talk down Sandforce compression and 'talk up' the steady state incompressible numbers of his "Indilinx Infused" Vertex 4, which holds, "an Indilinx controller... which is our own controller." In hindsight, we now know that the V4 uses a Marvell; thus confirming that you were indeed smart for initially purchasing a Marvell over Sandforce.

He also conveniently admits to "a couple of bugs in there" plaguing the Vertex 3, while, "having sold very well, very quickly," now that Sandforce is no longer a partner. Thus confirming you were right; many of you early adopters did buy a buggy piece of Sandforce alpha junk.

This company continues to provide the LOLs. Maybe 'Indilinx Infused' will become a fun little meme for SSD geeks. I might even buy one if they are greatly reduced after rebate.

 

[xman34312]

Guys, I think the issue is this:


3) In an attempt to regain trust, OCZ claims that said SSDs will now be completely in-house. This will grant them complete control over the QA process.

do you have a link or quote for this? In the past they had to wait for sf to write the FW. they now write the FW for v4.

 

[frostedflakes]

Lol wow.

I don't know why OCZ shoots themselves in the foot like this. SandForce issues aside, they make some decent SSDs and seem to stand behind their products, at least they're good about replacing SSDs that people do have problems with. But my god do they suck at PR, between this and silently transitioning to 25nm NAND and probably other stuff I've forgotten about (thought there was another really shady thing they did recently) they really seem to have a knack for pissing customers off and making people distrust them. I mean is it really that hard for them to be honest and upfront with consumers, tell them that the controller is an off-the-shelf (or slightly modified) version of Marvell's popular SSD controller, but then hype up that the firmware is entirely custom and that despite using the same Marvell controller as many other SSDs it's still able to offer class-leading performance in many categories due to their custom firmware.

On the plus side, hopefully it being a Marvell controller bodes well for the reliability of these new Vertex 4 drives. As Anand has pointed out in a lot of his reviews, though, firmware is what makes or breaks a drive. Controller matters some, but a drive with a good controller but bad firmware may be worse than a drive with a worse controller but very good firmware, for example. If the firmware is poorly done and OCZ didn't put the time and resources into testing and validation reliability may continue to be poor compared to Intel, Samsung, Crucial, and other vendors.

 

[TemjinGold]

do you have a link or quote for this? In the past they had to wait for sf to write the FW. they now write the FW for v4.

I don't have a link or quote for anything. I'm simply trying to write out what the OP was trying to get across. I'm unfortunately under a mountain of work at work and simply made that post during a break to try to clear up this argument that's going back and forth. If you want to call me out as someone making stuff up or something, feel free as I don't really care.

I made the post because it seems like both sides of this argument are misunderstanding why each is arguing. I'm not here to take sides.

 

[LokutusofBorg]

I've been a bit of an OCZ apologist in the past, but I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment that this company just plain sucks at PR.

I have personally been avoiding SF drives in general for a while now, and OCZ in particular. But I had hopes that the Indilinx acquisition would help them turn a corner from the dark SF days. For me this just ends up being another negative against them, instead of a positive that would get me to come back around and buy one of their products again.

So yes, it does matter.

 

[Obsoleet]

No news here. Just buy a damn Samsung 830 and be done with it. 100% Samsung parts, Samsung quality and the best reliability of the highend SSDs.

 

[Coup27]

No news here. Just buy a damn Samsung 830 and be done with it. 100% Samsung parts, Samsung quality and the best reliability of the highend SSDs.

Tbh the way the SSD sector has developed over the last 6 months I feel that Samsung is streets ahead of the competition.

I have high respect for Crucial for the way they have supported the m4, it's just a shame they never made a toolbox application for it and it is looking a bit long in the tooth now compared to SF and the 830 but it has always been very well priced.

Beyond that, I don't like how Intel treat their customers on their "community SSD forum" and clearly do not listen to customer issues with their SSDs. Also there has been too many reports of the 320 8MB bug continuing for me to feel as safe with it as I did with my old X25-M G2.

I've read around different places Intel 520 users have been reporting BSODs? We all know the score with non-Intel SF drives. Then OCZ have pulled another fast one with this Indilinx Infused masquerade.

 

[bryanW1995]

I find it hilarious that the ones complaining about this drive not being 100% OCZ built.. are the same ones who don't like them and often whine about their Sandforce based drives panic locking them out.

Because, if the haters distrust OCZ that much?.. why would you want to buy, or even see, another controller designed by them released in a new product?

Seems to me that there are plenty of Marvell advocates around here and they would be happy to see what performance tweaks may lie ahead for those types of drive configs.

Damned if you do.. damned if you don't.

The thing that concerns me about these is that they are still so unreliable. What is ocz doing/not doing to cause this?? Is it just the overclocking of the base marvell controller, is it poor/rushed validation, etc etc? I'm glad that OCZ pushes the boundaries on price and performance, but I'm also glad that I know enough to stay far, far away from them.