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Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
12,125
8,850
136
The classified documents case against Trump was dismissed by Judge Cannon. How long before he gets a court to overturn his convictions due to immunity?

At the earliest? Sometime between October '24 and June/July '25. In other words, during the next SCOTUS term.
 

ondma

Platinum Member
Mar 18, 2018
2,938
1,476
136
Part of it is the biased media which has been fucking over the Dems, so we need to take that into account, but still, overall, just bad at certain fundamental things
Yea, it is more than just Biden. The Dems are terrible at messaging overall. They are too caught up in identity politics and have lost touch with the hard working middle class. It is all tied together though; part of the messaging problem is that Biden is too old to counter the Rep attack, and has never been an inspiring speaker.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,355
50,319
136
Yea, it is more than just Biden. The Dems are terrible at messaging overall. They are too caught up in identity politics and have lost touch with the hard working middle class. It is all tied together though; part of the messaging problem is that Biden is too old to counter the Rep attack, and has never been an inspiring speaker.
It's always odd that people say the Democrats are too caught up in identity politics when Republicans are the true party of identity politics. Republicans run on identity politics all day, every day, in every race while Democrats rarely mention it at all.
 

ondma

Platinum Member
Mar 18, 2018
2,938
1,476
136
The classified documents case against Trump was dismissed by Judge Cannon. How long before he gets a court to overturn his convictions due to immunity?
I don't understand this case from the beginning. Is there no way that the prosecution could have avoided having a judge presiding over the case who was appointed by Trump? It is an obviously glaring conflict of interest. This probably will not change much legally, as the case was never going to come to trial before the election anyway, but it will give Trump another boost in the polls perhaps.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
47,721
36,495
136
but it will give Trump another boost in the polls perhaps.

Doubt it. A convention bump is likely but that's expected and will make it hard to disentangle any effect from the attempt on his life (if any).
 

ondma

Platinum Member
Mar 18, 2018
2,938
1,476
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lmao the Republicans, and Trump especially, traffic in almost nothing but identity politics
Of course they do, but somehow the Reps seem to be able to turn it to their advantage, while the Dems dont.
 

eelw

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 1999
9,650
4,833
136
I don't understand this case from the beginning. Is there no way that the prosecution could have avoided having a judge presiding over the case who was appointed by Trump? It is an obviously glaring conflict of interest. This probably will not change much legally, as the case was never going to come to trial before the election anyway, but it will give Trump another boost in the polls perhaps.
Case had to be brought up in southern district of Florida. If done in DC, they’d argue venue. But the southern district is handled by 3 judges. So her being appointed was high.
 

ondma

Platinum Member
Mar 18, 2018
2,938
1,476
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Doubt it. A convention bump is likely but that's expected and will make it hard to disentangle any effect from the attempt on his life (if any).
I was talking about the documents case. It may not change much, but it, and the assassination attempt will reinforce his "I am the victim, the evil Dems are out to get me." rhetoric. Dont know how much it will affect independents, but it certainly will help rile up the base.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
47,721
36,495
136
I was talking about the documents case. It may not change much, but it, and the assassination attempt will reinforce his "I am the victim, the evil Dems are out to get me." rhetoric. Dont know how much it will affect independents, but it certainly will help rile up the base.

Do Indies want to hear about something that almost happened to him personally for the next four months straight? I'm not inclined to think so but open to being wrong.
 

ondma

Platinum Member
Mar 18, 2018
2,938
1,476
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Are we simply refusing to remember the 2018, 2020, and 2022 elections?
Are you refusing to acknowledge that Biden is 4 years older and has clearly deteriorated? That he has to try to refute attacks on inflation, the border and being involved in 2 serious global conflicts.

Edit: and TBH how great were those previous elections? Granted they kept Trump out of office and avoided the predicted "red wave. But they ended up with a razor thin margin in the Senate, and lost the House to a bunch crazies.
 
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K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
47,721
36,495
136
Are you refusing to acknowledge that Biden is 4 years older and has clearly deteriorated? That he has to try to refute attacks on inflation, the border and being involved in 2 serious global conflicts.

You mean the reality that I have repeatedly acknowledged in this very thread?

The charge was that Democrats can never find political advantage that produces electoral results. Something I think is fairly incorrect.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,355
50,319
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You mean the reality that I have repeatedly acknowledged in this very thread?

The charge was that Democrats can never find political advantage that produces electoral results. Something I think is fairly incorrect.
It is odd to condemn the political instincts of the party that has gotten the most votes for president every time but once for the last 35 years.

Republicans have institutional advantages that let them hold the presidency despite their unpopularity but that's a separate issue.
 

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
12,125
8,850
136
I keep hearing a lot of talk that Harris would collapse in PA compared to Biden in 20 but still not seeing much in the way of evidence for that assertion.


I think there's a segment of the population that is fine voting for Biden because he's white and from Scranton. The "Pennsyl-tucky" parts of the state (includes Scranton) is very very very ... backwards. Just saying.
 
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K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
47,721
36,495
136
I think there's a segment of the population that is fine voting for Biden because he's white and from Scranton. The "Pennsyl-tucky" parts of the state (includes Scranton) is very very very ... backwards. Just saying.

If you can pick up a huge scoop of the Indies who are unhappy with the current options then they would not matter.
 

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
12,125
8,850
136
If you can pick up a huge scoop of the Indies who are unhappy with the current options then they would not matter.

True, but I think both of those segments are ones that Biden already had in '20 (at least from what I recall). It was a big difference between that and '16 where Hillary did awful outside of Pit/Phi. He'd have to run even bigger margins in those two, and if you believe any of the polling that's probably not likely as minority #s are worse than '20.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
47,721
36,495
136
True, but I think both of those segments are ones that Biden already had in '20 (at least from what I recall). It was a big difference between that and '16 where Hillary did awful outside of Pit/Phi. He'd have to run even bigger margins in those two, and if you believe any of the polling that's probably not likely as minority #s are worse than '20.

To say I am intensely skeptical of polling that shows Trump's share of the African American vote headed towards 25% this cycle you would be correct.
 

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
12,125
8,850
136
To say I am intensely skeptical of polling that shows Trump's share of the African American vote headed towards 25% this cycle you would be correct.

Oh, I agree with you on the magnitude of those being incorrect. I think it is there, just in smaller %s. But every "small %" is becoming drastically more important.

Which is why Harris atop the ticket worries for me PA. At least, without Shapiro as VP ...
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
22,730
20,840
136
It is odd to condemn the political instincts of the party that has gotten the most votes for president every time but once for the last 35 years.

Republicans have institutional advantages that let them hold the presidency despite their unpopularity but that's a separate issue.
It's not odd at all. You can keep crying the system is unfair, which is true, but in the meantime, that is the playing field you are given. To not also say that is the crying part. Any competent party would adjust to the actual rules on the playing field and win more, rather than simply making excuses for 35 years of not adjusting. It's been very clear the Dems have not done that.

This is why the Dems fail as much as they do, they have a bunch of excuse makers for them. Just like we have now with the very sad Biden campaign.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
47,721
36,495
136
Which is why Harris atop the ticket worries for me PA. At least, without Shapiro as VP ...

Yes, this is why I have suggested this very ticket for some time. PA is a must win and if we're going to make a change then we should make the best change we can under the circumstances.
 
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Stokely

Platinum Member
Jun 5, 2017
2,075
2,754
136
Of course they do, but somehow the Reps seem to be able to turn it to their advantage, while the Dems dont.

It's very easy to appeal to hate and fear. All the Republicans have done for ages is "Your problems are due to <insert boogeyman here>, vote for us and we'll destroy them!" If you have a real bad guy, like Hitler, well that's all well and good, but otherwise just make something up. There's a recycled list that is used, with old chestnuts like illegals and commies, and new ones like trans, BLM, "Woke!" and kneeling football players. All coming to destroy your way of life!

The Democrats can say, we are opposed to people that fear and hate monger, but that's a bit too nuanced for much of the American public. Lay out your infrastructure bill or start explaining how the wealth gap is hurting average people etc etc and they'll just switch the channel back to the WWE after 10 seconds with glazed eyes. Smash bad guys, now that's something to get behind!

There's a good reason the GOP wants to gut public education. Free thinkers are bad for them.
 
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