***Official*** 2010 Stock Market Thread

[The-Noid]

Interactive brokers says trades <$22 are under review...

I would be shocked if under 20.3x wasn't canceled for sure. Don't know about the rest, has to be a firm with level 3 that can view those details as to what set off the book.

 

[manlymatt83]

No, not if you expect the trial to go in favor of RMBS, which is why I'm assuming the majority of people who follow my posts here joined the RMBS bandwagon. If you can't stomach the big moves, go invest in Coke. This isn't going to be the last time this kind of trading happens.

Stop losses are for suckers - it only makes sense for big-caps or blue chips that can't be easily manipulated. I am not saying a person who uses stop losses are idiots, but more because Wall Street is a rat-infested pool that manipulates prices to their ultimate gain.

Guys, the trial is starting NEXT WEEK. We are 4 trading days away from the biggest trial. Get your head in order. Unless the trial is delayed, and you'll hear if that happens from me if you don't see it from Fool.com, Yahoo! or IV.

RMBS is a $5 dollar stock or a $50, $100, $150+++ stock. It doesn't belong in the $20's and is only here because of the legal overhang creating an uncertain future for the company.

Are buying options a possibility here, or would you recommend buying the stock straight up?

 

[The-Noid]

Are buying options a possibility here, or would you recommend buying the stock straight up?

Possible. What you are buying is a lottery ticket make no bones about it. Not a horrible idea if you believe they settle the case or win.

 

[Miramonti]

Everything at or below 20.73 between 13:28 and 13:32 are cancelled.

Darn, another $.20 lower and I could have had a nice day.

but atleast I got my $55 back, lol.

btw, this is the rule of law and completely non-appealable.

So what this means is that anyone that bought below $20.73, and sold for a profit >$20.73 but below the current trading price ($22.98) is fvcked. Their buys are cancelled, their sells remain, giving them a losing short position they now have to cover.

 

[JS80]

Everything at or below 20.73 between 13:28 and 13:32 are cancelled.

Darn, another $.20 lower and I could have had a nice day.

(but atleast I got my $55 back, lol.)

lol nice

 

[Blueychan]

15:21 EDT RMBS theflyonthewall.com: Nasdaq to cancel Rambus trades, says decision cannot be appealed
Nasdaq announced on its website that it has determined to cancel all trades in Rambus shares at or below $20.73 that were executed in NASDAQ between 13:28:00 and 13:32:00 ET. This decision cannot be appealed, the exchange said. :theflyonthewall


Hmmm how does this affect the price of RMBS?

 

[Cattlegod]

I want to jump onto some options, but I do not want to buy options that expire before a decision is made. Is this a trial that looks like it will last 6+ months? If so, I'll either buy the stock or wait.

 

[JS80]

I want to jump onto some options, but I do not want to buy options that expire before a decision is made. Is this a trial that looks like it will last 6+ months? If so, I'll either buy the stock or wait.

Buy the may.

 

[MrYogi]

RMBS was +10.7 &#37; this morning pre-market at around 7:30 AM. I thought today is the day I am selling RMBS. What a reverse turn of the events !!!

 

[JS80]

RMBS was +10.7 % this morning pre-market at around 7:30 AM. I thought today is the day I am selling RMBS. What a reverse turn of the events !!!

That was like one small trade. It was some jackass painting the tape.

 

[Miramonti]

A couple months ago, before the regular-hours market opened, my kitty stepped on the keyboard and sent in an order to buy 300 shares of a $5.75 stock at the offer. It was filled close to $8. The nasdaq cancelled it for me tho...whew.

 

[richardycc]

Interactive brokers says trades <$22 are under review...

I think Nasdaq will do something this time, since they didn't do anything last time something like this happened with DNDN. I bought 10 more Jan 22.5 calls @ 1.75, wish I waited 5 more minutes, could've gotten them for around 1.50 instead, oh well.

oh the other hand, GNVC is doing awesomely, company is being way to quiet, they are supposed to be at the biotech showcase 2010 conf next week http://www.ebdgroup.com/bts/ , should at least have a PR for that, but nothing yet, so maybe something is up.

 

[HopJokey]

a couple months ago, before the regular-hours market opened, my kitty stepped on the keyboard and sent in an order to buy 300 shares of a $5.75 stock at the offer. It was filled close to $8. The nasdaq cancelled it for me tho...whew.

lol

 

[TuxDave]

Everything at or below 20.73 between 13:28 and 13:32 are cancelled.

Darn, another $.20 lower and I could have had a nice day.

but atleast I got my $55 back, lol.

btw, this is the rule of law and completely non-appealable.

So what this means is that anyone that bought below $20.73, and sold for a profit >$20.73 but below the current trading price ($22.98) is fvcked. Their buys are cancelled, their sells remain, giving them a losing short position they now have to cover.

Ouch, that sucks.

 

[The-Noid]

Ouch, that sucks.

That's actually not what it means. If the erroneous sells are canceled so are the erroneous buys. you cannot magically borrow shares and be short when you think you are long., what you have said goes againt not only sec rules but also reg t on margin.

 

[Miramonti]

That's actually not what it means. If the erroneous sells are canceled so are the erroneous buys. you cannot magically borrow shares and be short when you think you are long., what you have said goes againt not only sec rules but also reg t on margin.

That's exactly what it means. The only trades that are canceled are the ones below $20.73. If you sold shares at a higher price with the intention of closing the position acquired below $20.73 during the respective time frame, only to have those purchases cancelled, you're short because the sells will clear but the buys won't.

If that position violates what you're permitted (due to margin or short sale constraints), the brokerage or clearing house will notify the customer and they will have a chance to close them out...but if they don't they will be closed out by the brokerage/clearing firm.

 

[thepd7]

hopefully nobody here got screwed, either way I have been meaning to get back into RMBS and this was a perfect opportunity, got in at $23 since I didn't see all this stuff until the afternoon.

 

[Miramonti]

hopefully nobody here got screwed, either way I have been meaning to get back into RMBS and this was a perfect opportunity, got in at $23 since I didn't see all this stuff until the afternoon.

Probably a good move.


All said and done, >4,000 trades were canceled on a boatload of shares.

 

[The-Noid]

That's exactly what it means. The only trades that are canceled are the ones below $20.73. If you sold shares at a higher price with the intention of closing the position acquired below $20.73 during the respective time frame, only to have those purchases cancelled, you're short because the sells will clear but the buys won't.

If that position violates what you're permitted (due to margin or short sale constraints), the brokerage or clearing house will notify the customer and they will have a chance to close them out...but if they don't they will be closed out by the brokerage/clearing firm.

The firm eats it. This will happen to no one unless you self clear (which no one on this board does).

What you have said is complete theory and should you self clear could happen. In everyone else's case the firm will eat this or provide the shares at no loss out of the prop account or out of the money they make from the exchange by being "liquidity providers."

Exactly the same thing if you purchase 10,000 shares instead of $10,000 dollars. If the stock goes up the firm keeps it so they can pay if the stock had gone down while they correct it. (This happens significantly more than you would think on all exchanges)

Exchanges and the participants are actually quite logical on mistakes. It is not the goal to hang people.

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

Anyone looking at Micron (MU)?

 

[Miramonti]

The firm eats it. This will happen to no one unless you self clear (which no one on this board does).

What you have said is complete theory and should you self clear could happen. In everyone else's case the firm will eat this or provide the shares at no loss out of the prop account or out of the money they make from the exchange by being "liquidity providers."

Exactly the same thing if you purchase 10,000 shares instead of $10,000 dollars. If the stock goes up the firm keeps it so they can pay if the stock had gone down while they correct it. (This happens significantly more than you would think on all exchanges)

Exchanges and the participants are actually quite logical on mistakes. It is not the goal to hang people.

What "firm" are you talking about? There's nothing theoretical about this. Whoever a trader sold the shares to, above $20.73 (which later left the trader short after the buys were cancelled) will have bought those shares from the seller. The seller must deliver them at that price from his account. (not actually physically since 99&#37; of trading is just electronic credits and debits)

And whoever's account is responsible for the trading activity is responsible for the p&l, its not complicated. This scenario can go either for the trader/trading firm or against them depending on which trades are cancelled and where the market is after the ruling is made.

I've had it go both ways for myself, both profiting as well as losing after 1/2 the position has gotten canceled. (most of the time tho I usually wind up flat with both sides cancelled, negating whatever net profit or loss I made from the activity)

If I lose money on getting stuck in once side, my brokerage isn't going to step is and save the day. The only thing financially a brokerage and clearing firm guarantees is that if a trader of theirs goes bankrupt, they will foot the bill, and in either case the trades the trader makes will clear. No one's talking about bankruptcy situations here tho.

Most of these transactions today are from professional accounts tho...they are the ones primarily hawking the market to take advantage in size of such quick frantic price disparities. But that can be a large firm or a small prop firm...no doubt many in both categories got nailed...and many made a lot more money than they thought they had as well.

 

[SSSnail]

Am I doing this right?

I need to quit letting my cat bet for me (and I don't even have a cat...)

 

[KDKPSJ]

Looks like the sky is limit for HGSI. Just broke $ 32!

 

[Azurik]

I should rename this the 2010 Rambus Stock Thread

I think everything is fine after going through the entire day of court yesterday. I think what happened in court in the beginning sparked the panic sell, and that began an avalache of stop-losses being taken out. There was some market manipulation, but now I believe most of it was due to panic selling.

Judge Kramer was going to take himself out of the case, and have it reassigned. There were a lot of theories thrown out... someone was threatening the judge, someone bought the judge, etc. The real reason is that he blocked out a 3-month window for this trial and all sides knew of this, but at the last minute, Samsung, Hynix and Micron all came out with crazy hours they would need to properly defend themselves - something like 5-6 months instead of the planned 2 months. This made JK upset and Rambus believes they are doing this to delay the trial even more. JK has another trial right after this one. It's impossible to block out 6 months from a judge's calendar unless you look beyond this year. Denying their request immediately though would be grounds for an appeal issue by the memory manufacturers.

This is when JK suggested that he be replaced by someone else in order to keep everything on track. But this person would be hand-picked, and with all the motions and legal wranglings having been virtually ruled by JK, this new judge would really only "preside" over the trial with much of the heavy work already done. He had a few choices to think over, and I think we'll get an answer in several days of what he is going to do.

1. Reassign this to a hand-picked judge so JK can take over the other trial.
2. Keep this trial and give his other case away.
3. Delay the trial until they can find the proper time block.

I really doubt 3 is going to happen. He is adamant about starting this trial in January no matter who the judge is going to be. 1 is not bad, but it makes no sense since he's been gunning this ship for years and managed to stay on this RMBS case even when the MMs tried to kick him out. 2 is the most logical choice, and the choice I would wager on if I were a betting man.

In any case, the monster panic sell that set in yesterday was uncalled for and as you can see from the stock recovering yesterday and today that we're basically back to where we were. It's amazing how many stake holders are in this stock right now, that any good or bad news can send the stock into such a tizzle like what we just saw.

 

[endervalentine]

Anyone looking at Micron (MU)?

I don't but do read up the memory industry. Any ideas why MU would be rising? My initial guesses would be -

1. Recovering NAND prices are helping their margins...
2. Their ongoing JDP w/ Intel and how well Intel SSD's are received...
3. The possibility of purchasing Numonyx for a fairly low price...