*** OFFICIAL 2011 MLB Season Thread ***

[Perknose]

Cliff F*cking Lee. :wub:

Moah Lee

To put this into perspective, all by his lonesome,

Mr. Cliff F*cking Lee

has thrown MOAH shutouts than the entire pitching staffs of 14 of the other 15 NL teams have thrown complete games of any type. D:​

 

[rcpratt]

More Cliff F*cking Lee.

Pretty compelling argument about standard deviation and the fact that Halladay's zero shutouts are better than Lee's six.

 

[Perknose]

More Cliff F*cking Lee.

And frankly, among these twirlers, Doc Halladay stands the strongest. Not only does he lead the league in FIP (2.12), xFIP (2.61), tERA (2.39), and SIERA (2.54)*, but he has been the league’s most consistent starter.

[...]

Lee has continued to impress in 2011, but there’s no surprises in the NL Cy Young race: The Doc has it if he wants it.

You have posted an article which makes a conclusive sabermetric case that Roy Halladay should be the NL Cy Young Award winner, and that the competition isn't really that close.

Ok.

Roy Halladay hands down for the NL Cy Young!

I can live with that. :hmm:

Meanwhile, excuse me if I continue to celebrate Mr. Cliff F*cking Lee and his six shutouts, which just happen to be 50% Moah complete games of any type than a certain Mr. Justin "I pitch in the AL and never have to come out for a pinch hitter" Verlander and the entire Detroit Tigers pitching staff have managed to throw this season.

However anyone else wishes to look at it, his sterling feat remains a BRILLIANT and remarkable old-school achievement in and of itself.

 

[rcpratt]

I don't disagree, just thought it was interesting

Maybe Justin would have a few more if he were able to pitch to pitchers two or three times a game...()

 

[Perknose]

I don't disagree, just thought it was interesting

Well, it is.

Unfortunately, Halladay's quiet but enduring "dominance" together with Lee's headline grabbing stretches of historic dominance plus the very existence of Cole Hamels and his league leading WHIP = "Ladies and gentlemen, meet Clayton Kershaw, your next NL Cy Young winner."

 

[Perknose]

Maybe Justin would have a few more if he were able to pitch to pitchers two or three times a game...()

And maybe he wouldn't have the sterling record and stats he does if he didn't pitch in the putatively weakest division in all of MLB, the only one wherein all the teams except the Tigers have a negative run differential of at least 20 runs. ()

Don't get me wrong, I think Justin Verlander is a STUD young pitcher who has matured before our eyes this year into the full realization of his awesome physical gifts, a player who has put an entire team on his back and carried them into the playoffs, a player who could be legitimately considered for both the MVP and the Cy Young.

But mostly, spinning "maybes' is a puerile and pointless exercise in any sport -- best left to the bitter end fanbois.

 

[rcpratt]

Eh, Justin's been who he is since '09. He was unlucky in '09 and has been lucky in '11. The unveiling of his new slider throughout the past three years has caused some slight improvement. It is, however, time that he gets the recognition that he deserves.

I tend to be of the mind that pitchers already have an award and shouldn't be considered for MVP, but at least it's not going to closers like it did back in the old days.

 

[SP33Demon]

The comparisons of Halladay and Lee are like comparing a .50 sniper rifle to a mounted .50 cal machine gun: one hits with more precision more often, but if the .50cal is fired with enough skill it will take out everything on the landscape. The only difference is that 98% of all other NL pitchers are firing .22's.

Seriously though, it has to be Halladay unless Lee does it two more times and surpasses Halladay aka Modern Day Maddux. Not sure if I posted this before, but it's from a couple months back:
http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/20...s-saved-since-1988-or-greg-maddux-is-a-wizard

That is how Halladay goes the distance: inducing hitters to swing at his pitches. Just like Maddux in his hey day. But there really is no comparison to Maddux, if Halladay is a .50 cal sniper rifle then Maddux was a laser guided Tomahawk missle:

At his current rate of pitches saved, #2 pitch-saver Roy Halladay could throw 250 innings per year for 20 years and still not reach Greg Maddux's career total.

/mindblown

 

[Perknose]

I tend to be of the mind that pitchers already have an award and shouldn't be considered for MVP, but at least it's not going to closers like it did back in the old days.

I hear you, and yet, in terms of the player most valuable to his (winning) team, there really is only one absolutely clear candidate in either league, Verlander.

 

[SP33Demon]

Verlander with 22 wins now. Jesus. Baseball-ref has him at 7.8 WAR now, only .2 behind Bautista at 8.

Also, want to know why Baseball-ref's WAR values are better than Fangraphs?

They have CC Sabathia ahead of Verlander in WAR: 6.7 vs 6.4. LMAO. At least Baseball-Ref got it right (7.8 vs 5.8 for CC). Fangraphs is sht!

 

[raystorm]

I think one day Nyjer Morgan is going to get a big time beatdown with his antics. He did get clotheslined by Gaby Sanchez last season but he needs to be careful or Albert Pujols is going to destroy him (Nyjer called him Alberta via twitter).

http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/ne...07&content_id=24390470&vkey=news_stl&c_id=stl

 

[SP33Demon]

I think one day Nyjer Morgan is going to get a big time beatdown with his antics. He did get clotheslined by Gaby Sanchez last season but he needs to be careful or Albert Pujols is going to destroy him (Nyjer called him Alberta via twitter).

http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/ne...07&content_id=24390470&vkey=news_stl&c_id=stl

Very glad not to see that punk in a Nats uniform anymore when I go to the games here. That guy only brings bad karma to the teams he plays for. The worst was when he gunned a ball into the stands at a fan last year:
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/nationalsjournal/2010/08/nyjer_morgan_suspended_seven_g.html

Only bush league idiots act like that and Nyger is at the top of the list.

 

[Perknose]

Lol. Howard with a first inning, three run, upper deck tater off Marcum, the Brewers ace. And, oh yeah, Doc will be on the mound for us. It's really good to be a Phils fan these day. ()

 

[Perknose]

Cliff F*cking Lee. :wub:

Dayum.

8 and 2/3 innings, one strike away from a 13 strikeout, 5 hit, complete game shutout and a Marlin goes yard into the wind to tie the game at 1-1.

Milk. I must find some and spill it, so I can pretend that's what I'm crying over.

 

[TheVrolok]

Dayum.

8 and 2/3 innings, one strike away from a 13 strikeout, 5 hit, complete game shutout and a Marlin goes yard into the wind to tie the game at 1-1.

Milk. I must find some and spill it, so I can pretend that's what I'm crying over.

Can clinch division tomorrow. Mmmm.

 

[jalaram]

Rays take 1 from the Sox to close to 3 games behind. Hopefully, they can keep it up unlike their performance in Balt.

 

[BrokenVisage]

Yay the Phils win anyway!

 

[IAteYourMother]

Verlander with 22 wins now. Jesus. Baseball-ref has him at 7.8 WAR now, only .2 behind Bautista at 8.

Also, want to know why Baseball-ref's WAR values are better than Fangraphs?

They have CC Sabathia ahead of Verlander in WAR: 6.7 vs 6.4. LMAO. At least Baseball-Ref got it right (7.8 vs 5.8 for CC). Fangraphs is sht!

I don't know, you can't just dismiss Fangraph's WAR calculations just because their values don't line up with your perception. Otherwise, what would be the point of these sabermetric values if not to challenge what we might believe to be true?

I'm not saying Verlander shouldn't have a higher WAR than CC, but you have to analyze their calculations and justify why one is better than the other.

This is one reason why I think it's absolutely asinine that people use WAR as the end all to be all stats, because the way you calculate it is so arbitrary.

 

[rcpratt]

bWAR uses ERA, fWAR uses FIP. I can understand the reasoning behind both, but from a logic standpoint, ERA just makes more sense to me. WAR is a "what value did you create for your club" stat. FIP is more of a predictive stat, whereas ERA describes what actually happened.

 

[davmat787]

Boston fans must be very nervous right now. Did anyone think before the season began Boston would even be in 2nd on September 15th? Let alone just 3 ahead for the wild card?

Did anyone else see the broken bat play in the Ray's-Red Sox game? It happened near 3B, and the bat landed right next to the ball in front of Scutaro at the same time. Does not look like Scutaro could have done anything differently, but as many broken bat plays as I have seen, I have never seen the ball and bat land in the same place, same time, right in front of the fielder.

 

[rockyct]

Well, this year has been a pretty ugly year for the Padres...but since the Dodgers and the Giants will miss the playoffs, I still consider it a very good year indeed.

 

[Perknose]

Holy Chit. At least momentarily, the baseball gods have smiled on the Phillies. D:

 

[rcpratt]

Hey, let the Cards win, I want to see another playoff race. They could pull within 3.5

 

[rcpratt]

Sorry, but yay Something tells me y'all will survive.

 

[iamwiz82]

Go Tigers!