*** OFFICIAL 2011 MLB Season Thread ***

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KLin

Lifer
Feb 29, 2000
29,557
166
106
Just 1 HR and 5 RBIs, so he's just a slim front-runner. I like how in the on-field interview, Berkman confirmed that he's just a see ball hit ball batter. He didn't fight off any pitches in the 9th, they clearly pitched around him. Pujols could steal the award if he puts up a monster game, but the Rangers won't pitch to him.

On the other side, Napoli has it locked up if the Rangers win. Not to defend Cruz but was there any video of his break on Freese's clutch line drive? Cruz is built like a lumbering 1st baseman, he shouldn't even be in the outfield late in a game but Washington already used up his defensive OF substitution. (Yeah I'm just ripping on Wash tonight.)

They'll pitch to him in the right situation(i.e. bases loaded late inning and Rangers are only down a score or 2).
 

Miramonti

Lifer
Aug 26, 2000
28,651
100
91
casual fans like myself probably remember a spry Ryan rearranging Ventura's noggin more than some of his prolific baseball exploits. I'm sure Ryan has signed reprints of that iconic headlock photo hundreds of times.

I remember that year well, was in chicago. Robin Ventura and Frank Thomas were tearing it up. I was at a game where the Sox were down 8-6 in the 9th, so my gf and I left to get out of the parking lot easier. Ventura hit a grand slam in the bottom of the 9th.

Best of all that year was Bo Jackson playing for the sox. Never seen anything more electric in the crowd than Jackson coming up to the plate (aside from Jordan with the basketball at the end of tight games.)
 

BUTCH1

Lifer
Jul 15, 2000
20,433
1,769
126
Such a disappointing game (as a Rangers fan) So many fuck ups it's unbelievable. I dont even feel like watching game 7 at this point.

As a Red Sox fan I kinda know that feeling, had the first one around 1967, LOL. Another gaffe, why even pitch to Berkman at that point?, he's fire-assed hot and there was a base open, walk him and deal with the next guy, one run wins it anyway. All in all great game,will be ranked among the best for sure...
 

Squisher

Lifer
Aug 17, 2000
21,204
66
91
Very poorly played. He didn't even know where the fence was. It was no bill buckner, but was a very catchable ball for having played the wall like that.

I came in here to post just this and I'm glad quite a few saw the same thing. But, I think he broke on the ball just fine. He started his run for the ball with a trot, no where near full speed, then when he turned back and saw that it was hit a lot harder than he first thought he went into full speed for his last couple strides. He should have had it.


Oh well, great game.
 

BUTCH1

Lifer
Jul 15, 2000
20,433
1,769
126
I came in here to post just this and I'm glad quite a few saw the same thing. But, I think he broke on the ball just fine. He started his run for the ball with a trot, no where near full speed, then when he turned back and saw that it was hit a lot harder than he first thought he went into full speed for his last couple strides. He should have had it.


Oh well, great game.

Yup, you catch it your a world champion, fuck running into the wall, what what he worried about, overrunning it?...
 

kranky

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
21,017
147
106
Game 6 is certainly in the Top 10 of WS games ever. Incredible drama and momentum swings.

I have to hang the loss on Cruz, though. That was an eminently catchable ball by even a below-average RFer given where he was playing and the game situation. Don't know what he was doing but it might end up costing his team the championship.
 

snoopdoug1

Platinum Member
Jan 8, 2002
2,164
0
76
That was the most incredible game I have ever seen - and I was there! Go CARDS!

No one will remember the Freese dropped fly, the Holliday dropped fly, the Salas throw into the outfield, etc... ONE MORE!
 

Miramonti

Lifer
Aug 26, 2000
28,651
100
91
Game 6 is certainly in the Top 10 of WS games ever. Incredible drama and momentum swings.

I have to hang the loss on Cruz, though. That was an eminently catchable ball by even a below-average RFer given where he was playing and the game situation. Don't know what he was doing but it might end up costing his team the championship.

Atleast in terms of comeback games, it's got to be up there. If there are 10 better comebacks than this, I'd pay to see the vids, lol.

It's a tough one to hang on Cruz. He was a significant cog in the wheel, but pitchers let batters get some good wood numerous times that put and kept things in motion. Also, the misplay by Texas' shortstop where he could have gone to 2nd to get the lead runner and end the inning (iirc), yet looked it off and went to first. But he threw the ball in the dirt, runner safe, inning continues.

Cruz must feel like cr@p, but no doubt he's not the only Texas player to be kicking themselves after that one.
 
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Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,572
9,945
146
Great game! Lots of talk about Nolan Ryan, so I'll add my several centavos:

First of all, to get this out of the way, of course he belongs in the HOF. Beyond any doubt, ok?

That said, I was never as high on Ryan as a lot of others are, many after the fact of his career. My subjective impression of him was that he threw some spectacular games, but was basically a .500 pitcher. And yes, admittedly, that impression severely understates the career and individual game achievements of "The Express." So, I went to his stats to better understand my subjective impression.

In his 27 year career, he only won 20 games twice. In BOTH of those years, he also lost 16! His last time was in 1974, which means for nearly the last 20 years of his career, he was never a 20 game winner.

It gets worse. In his 27 year career, he only won more than 16 games in a season but 5 times, and his last time was in 1977 (he played until 1993!) In one of those five 16+ win seasons, he won 17 but LOST 18!

In not one season was he ever considered the best pitcher in baseball. He NEVER won the Cy Young award, not once in 27 years. In fact, in 19 of those seasons, he didn't even get one vote for the Cy Young, not one!

Again, I agree he achieved a ton, had an overall career entirely worthy of the HOF, and was one of the stars of baseball for a long, long time. I just see holes in his resume no one else ever seems to bring up.

And, yeah, do I ever know I'm gonna' get flamed for this! D:
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,572
9,945
146
That was the most incredible game I have ever seen - and I was there! Go CARDS!

No one will remember the Freese dropped fly, the Holliday dropped fly, the Salas throw into the outfield, etc... ONE MORE!

Tons of sloppy play by both teams on multiple occasions throughout the series. Call me old school, but this is not the kind of ball I like to see from so-called championship teams.
 

Miramonti

Lifer
Aug 26, 2000
28,651
100
91
Great game! Lots of talk about Nolan Ryan, so I'll add my several centavos:

First of all, to get this out of the way, of course he belongs in the HOF. Beyond any doubt, ok?

That said, I was never as high on Ryan as a lot of others are, many after the fact of his career. My subjective impression of him was that he threw some spectacular games, but was basically a .500 pitcher. And yes, admittedly, that impression severely understates the career and individual game achievements of "The Express." So, I went to his stats to better understand my subjective impression.

In his 27 year career, he only won 20 games twice. In BOTH of those years, he also lost 16! His last time was in 1974, which means for nearly the last 20 years of his career, he was never a 20 game winner.

It gets worse. In his 27 year career, he only won more than 16 games in a season but 5 times, and his last time was in 1977 (he played until 1993!) In one of those five 16+ win seasons, he won 17 but LOST 18!

In not one season was he ever considered the best pitcher in baseball. He NEVER won the Cy Young award, not once in 27 years. In fact, in 19 of those seasons, he didn't even get one vote for the Cy Young, not one!

Again, I agree he achieved a ton, had an overall career entirely worthy of the HOF, and was one of the stars of baseball for a long, long time. I just see holes in his resume no one else ever seems to bring up.

And, yeah, do I ever know I'm gonna' get flamed for this! D:

That sounds sensible but is absolutely insane. Would it make any difference to you if you knew he had nearly the same ERA as Greg Maddux? (3.19 vs. 3.16)

How can even the greatest pitchers in the game win with no run support? He put up 3.19 over 27 seasons, until he was 46, Maddux 23 seasons. Ryan posted a 3.07 ERA in his limited 9 post season games, Maddux 3.27 in 35.

Ryan gets a bad rap for not winning more, but there's nothing that can be said to suggest he's overrated in any regard imo. (nor Maddux of course.)
 
Last edited:

PimpJuice

Platinum Member
Feb 14, 2005
2,051
1
76
Nolan Ryan is the most overrated pitcher of all-time. He threw some magnificent games, but those should be viewed on their own. He was an average pitcher.

People forget that he also leads the league in most walks allowed.....by a huge margin. His career K/BB ration is barely above 2. Two strikeouts for every walk.....thats middle of the line.

Randy Johnson who is second on the career strikeout list has almost HALF the number of walks allowed.

Ryan is a product of his longetivity. I don't value that when evaluating a persons pitching ability. It just means he was average for a long time.
 

PimpJuice

Platinum Member
Feb 14, 2005
2,051
1
76
That sounds sensible but is absolutely insane. Would it make any difference to you if you knew he had nearly the same ERA as Greg Maddux? (3.16 vs. 3.19)

How can even the greatest pitchers in the game win with no run support? He put up 3.16 over 27 seasons, until he was 46, Maddux 23 seasons. Ryan posted a 3.07 ERA in his limited 9 post season games, Maddux 3.27 in 35.

Ryan gets a bad rap for not winning more, but there's nothing that can be said to suggest he's overrated in any regard imo. (nor Maddux of course.)

the ERA comparison is like comparing apples to oranges because of the different eras that they pitched in. See the following:

Career adjusted ERA (higher is better)
Express: 111
Maddux: 134

Five best full season adjusted ERAs
Express: 194*, 142, 141, 139, 128*.
Maddux: 271*, 262*, 189, 187, 171.
* Strike-shortened season, but a qualifying ERA nonetheless.

Career WHIP
Express: 1.247
Maddux: 1.141

Five best full season WHIPs
Express: 1.006, 1.034, 1.086, 1.121, 1.129
Maddux: 0.811, 0.896, 0.946, 0.980, 1.011

Career K:BB ratio
Express: 5714:2795 == 2.044
Maddux: 3273:969 == 3.378
 

Miramonti

Lifer
Aug 26, 2000
28,651
100
91
Nolan Ryan is the most overrated pitcher of all-time. He threw some magnificent games, but those should be viewed on their own. He was an average pitcher.

People forget that he also leads the league in most walks allowed.....by a huge margin. His career K/BB ration is barely above 2. Two strikeouts for every walk.....thats middle of the line.

Randy Johnson who is second on the career strikeout list has almost HALF the number of walks allowed.

Ryan is a product of his longetivity. I don't value that when evaluating a persons pitching ability. It just means he was average for a long time.

And those walks really destroyed his ERA...LOL. If this makes Randy Johnson better, why is his ERA greater than Ryan's when Ryan is giving away so many free bases?
 

Miramonti

Lifer
Aug 26, 2000
28,651
100
91
the ERA comparison is like comparing apples to oranges because of the different eras that they pitched in. See the following:

Career adjusted ERA (higher is better)
Express: 111
Maddux: 134

Five best full season adjusted ERAs
Express: 194*, 142, 141, 139, 128*.
Maddux: 271*, 262*, 189, 187, 171.
* Strike-shortened season, but a qualifying ERA nonetheless.

Career WHIP
Express: 1.247
Maddux: 1.141

Five best full season WHIPs
Express: 1.006, 1.034, 1.086, 1.121, 1.129
Maddux: 0.811, 0.896, 0.946, 0.980, 1.011

Career K:BB ratio
Express: 5714:2795 == 2.044
Maddux: 3273:969 == 3.378

I'm not arguing Ryan was better than Maddux, but that Ryan doesn't deserve the rap that he's overrated because he didn't win enough and walked to many batters, which are always the arguments that come up. He did walk a lot of batters and it is what it is, but the effect was not what people suggest it might be for others that give up too many BB's.

What Randy Johnson accomplished is certainly hard to deny as well, but we're talking about some of the greatest of all time pitchers.
 
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BUTCH1

Lifer
Jul 15, 2000
20,433
1,769
126
Great game! Lots of talk about Nolan Ryan, so I'll add my several centavos:

First of all, to get this out of the way, of course he belongs in the HOF. Beyond any doubt, ok?

That said, I was never as high on Ryan as a lot of others are, many after the fact of his career. My subjective impression of him was that he threw some spectacular games, but was basically a .500 pitcher. And yes, admittedly, that impression severely understates the career and individual game achievements of "The Express." So, I went to his stats to better understand my subjective impression.

In his 27 year career, he only won 20 games twice. In BOTH of those years, he also lost 16! His last time was in 1974, which means for nearly the last 20 years of his career, he was never a 20 game winner.

It gets worse. In his 27 year career, he only won more than 16 games in a season but 5 times, and his last time was in 1977 (he played until 1993!) In one of those five 16+ win seasons, he won 17 but LOST 18!

In not one season was he ever considered the best pitcher in baseball. He NEVER won the Cy Young award, not once in 27 years. In fact, in 19 of those seasons, he didn't even get one vote for the Cy Young, not one!

Again, I agree he achieved a ton, had an overall career entirely worthy of the HOF, and was one of the stars of baseball for a long, long time. I just see holes in his resume no one else ever seems to bring up.

And, yeah, do I ever know I'm gonna' get flamed for this! D:

He had 7 no-no's, unmatched by anyone and it's hard to win a Cy young without some offensive run support..
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,143
30,099
146
Great game! Lots of talk about Nolan Ryan, so I'll add my several centavos:

First of all, to get this out of the way, of course he belongs in the HOF. Beyond any doubt, ok?

That said, I was never as high on Ryan as a lot of others are, many after the fact of his career. My subjective impression of him was that he threw some spectacular games, but was basically a .500 pitcher. And yes, admittedly, that impression severely understates the career and individual game achievements of "The Express." So, I went to his stats to better understand my subjective impression.

In his 27 year career, he only won 20 games twice. In BOTH of those years, he also lost 16! His last time was in 1974, which means for nearly the last 20 years of his career, he was never a 20 game winner.

It gets worse. In his 27 year career, he only won more than 16 games in a season but 5 times, and his last time was in 1977 (he played until 1993!) In one of those five 16+ win seasons, he won 17 but LOST 18!

In not one season was he ever considered the best pitcher in baseball. He NEVER won the Cy Young award, not once in 27 years. In fact, in 19 of those seasons, he didn't even get one vote for the Cy Young, not one!

Again, I agree he achieved a ton, had an overall career entirely worthy of the HOF, and was one of the stars of baseball for a long, long time. I just see holes in his resume no one else ever seems to bring up.

And, yeah, do I ever know I'm gonna' get flamed for this! D:


Nolan Ryan is the greatest strike-out pitcher that ever lived. Of course, being a strike out pitcher, your ERA is goign to be somewhat shitty and you aren't going to get a ton of wins. You give up a lot of homeruns--and hits--because you're throwing more strikes than anyone else.

It's weird--being the absolute best at your particular skill also makes you somewhat "mediocre" in the grand scheme of things.

Though, I can't really call someone like Ryan mediocre.
 

snoopdoug1

Platinum Member
Jan 8, 2002
2,164
0
76
Tons of sloppy play by both teams on multiple occasions throughout the series. Call me old school, but this is not the kind of ball I like to see from so-called championship teams.

Hello Old School

I agree on the sloppy play, but the emotional swings were incredible. Also, look at it this way... if these teams are this sloppy, then how bad must the rest of the league be?
 

Squisher

Lifer
Aug 17, 2000
21,204
66
91
You know what I base my high opinion of Nolan Ryan on? I base it on the opinions of the batters that faced him. Listen to the interviews. Who did you hate facing? See if his name doesn't come up.

Statistics lie.
 
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