***Official*** 2011 Stock Market Thread

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Imp

Lifer
Feb 8, 2000
18,829
184
106
I spent the entire day skipping classes and pressing F5 to refresh the message board. At 6pm or so, the court clerk came out with a copy of the decision. The lawyer friend went to the last page to see the verdict and told us. We had 1 1/2 minutes to trade the stock before it was halted. I bought a lot of shares (for a semi-broke student anyway). The day after, the stock went from something like $15 to $30.

I made $20k in 1 day. Easiest money I made in my life (aside from selling my site to Microsoft). I was hooked from that point on.

I don't know the law(s), but isn't that pushing on insider trading?
 

chusteczka

Diamond Member
Apr 12, 2006
3,400
1
71
Azurik, thank you for the useful information. Your communication efforst are much appreciated. May I ask you a couple questions?

1) If Intel was involved as a middle party, why is Intel not suing Micron and Hynix for inappropriate use of the investement money? It seems odd that Intel is not upset at the loss of these funds. Maybe Rambus should be suing Intel instead?

2) Is that 2% royalty amount an accurate number? It seems too low for a company championing a new technology. That does not seem to be enough motivation for illegal collusion to bankrupt the technology.

My apologies if my questions show ignorance on the subject.
 

Azurik

Platinum Member
Jan 23, 2002
2,206
12
81
Azurik, thank you for the useful information. Your communication efforst are much appreciated. May I ask you a couple questions?

1) If Intel was involved as a middle party, why is Intel not suing Micron and Hynix for inappropriate use of the investement money? It seems odd that Intel is not upset at the loss of these funds. Maybe Rambus should be suing Intel instead?

2) Is that 2% royalty amount an accurate number? It seems too low for a company championing a new technology. That does not seem to be enough motivation for illegal collusion to bankrupt the technology.

My apologies if my questions show ignorance on the subject.

1. Intel was very upset. There were internal memos and e-mails that was shown in the various court cases regardng that. I'm not privy to the exact contract details, so I can't answer why Intel is not taking action against Micron. Intel did get millions of shares of Micron in return, and sold them at a hefty profit which might explain why they were "okay" after a while: http://articles.latimes.com/1998/oct/17/news/nc-33290

2. RDRAM royalty rates were 1.5%. It is more than what memory companies are use to paying, which is 0%. It adds up quickly when you consider that RDRAM and it's evolutions were going to trickle down to almost every electronic that had RAM in it. They were charging 3.5% on DDR-RAM and SDRAM since it incorporates some Rambus tech in it, and a higher rate to encourage adoption of RDRAM instead.

Take for instance, the PlayStation 3, which has XDR-RAM in it, also owned by Rambus. Sony chose this and both Samsung and Elpida makes it for them, paying Rambus 1.5% for each chip. Each PlayStation 3 uses 2 XDR chips @ 1.5% each and 1 XDR controller @ 3%. 1.5% x 2 + 3% = 6%. There's been 25 million PS3s sold so far, so Rambus has roughly made $2 on each unit, or $50 million dollars on PS3 alone. That's not chump change.

The entire DRAM market is $9 billion dollars right now, which means Rambus would have receive $370 million this year on RAM alone (before support, licensing fees, etc.) are added. It's a huge market that keeps on growing (computer DRAM, notebook RAM, mobile RAM).

Rambus is calculating had they not been driven out of RDRAM, they would have made $4 billion dollars in the "but if for" world. The State of California automatically trembles that amount for damages.
 
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SunnyD

Belgian Waffler
Jan 2, 2001
32,674
145
106
www.neftastic.com
2. RDRAM royalty rates were 1.5%. It is more than what memory companies are use to paying, which is 0%. It adds up quickly when you consider that RDRAM and it's evolutions were going to trickle down to almost every electronic that had RAM in it. They were charging 3.5% on DDR-RAM and SDRAM since it incorporates some Rambus tech in it, and a higher rate to encourage adoption of RDRAM instead.

Take for instance, the PlayStation 3, which has XDR-RAM in it, also owned by Rambus. Sony chose this and both Samsung and Elpida makes it for them, paying Rambus 1.5% for each chip. Each PlayStation 3 uses 2 XDR chips @ 1.5% each and 1 XDR controller @ 3%. 1.5% x 2 + 3% = 6%. There's been 25 million PS3s sold so far, so Rambus has roughly made $2 on each unit, or $50 million dollars on PS3 alone. That's not chump change.

The entire DRAM market is $9 billion dollars right now, which means Rambus would have receive $370 million this year on RAM alone (before support, licensing fees, etc.) are added. It's a huge market that keeps on growing (computer DRAM, notebook RAM, mobile RAM).

Rambus is calculating had they not been driven out of RDRAM, they would have made $4 billion dollars in the "but if for" world. The State of California automatically trembles that amount for damages.

#1 - it's "treble", not "tremble".

#2 - 2 chips @ 1.5% != 3%. 2 chips @ 1.5% = 1.5% of the cost of TWO chips. (Mathematically: (A + A) * 0.015 = (2A) * 0.015. For example, if a chip costs $7.50, then 15 * 0.015 = 0.225. The way you're wording it is 15 * 0.03 = 0.45. Also taking into account the controller cost is different from the cost per ram chip, you simply can't simplify it to 6% of the total cost. They're two distinct values that need to be calculated separately.
 

FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
29,307
2,099
126
#1 - it's "treble", not "tremble".

#2 - 2 chips @ 1.5% != 3%. 2 chips @ 1.5% = 1.5% of the cost of TWO chips. (Mathematically: (A + A) * 0.015 = (2A) * 0.015. For example, if a chip costs $7.50, then 15 * 0.015 = 0.225. The way you're wording it is 15 * 0.03 = 0.45. Also taking into account the controller cost is different from the cost per ram chip, you simply can't simplify it to 6% of the total cost. They're two distinct values that need to be calculated separately.

I remember working as a subcontractor for Shannon Gracey Ratliff Miller back in 1991 and all I heard was treble damage this and treble damage that. The losing party may definately tremble either way.

In addition, I have sat on two mock juries for actual cases that were in the court system. The parties were trying to guage potential juror opinions. I can tell you this, in both instances it was a confusing battle with both parties holding compelling points of view but it would put you to sleep if you werent careful. The personality, presentation and ability to counter any argument is what is what made you decide which side to take....facts be damned.

In the end our decisions in both cases tried to find equitable ground not leaning to far to either side. One was a multifaceted patent case involving several products. Both produced witnesses, exhibits and experts that could show the other side was obfuscating or downright lying. Im willing to bet that is what is happening here and the decisions are going to sway on which jurors have enough facts to gain a consensus in the jury room.

After extensive arguing we were happy with the middle ground. We found some products were infringing but not every one. And since both parties demonstrated bad faith at one point or other we kept the award to actual damages and a reasonable amount the defendants claimed were standard practice "assuming infringement did occur". They were preemptively covering their asses. It worked.
 
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Azurik

Platinum Member
Jan 23, 2002
2,206
12
81
#1 - it's "treble", not "tremble".

#2 - 2 chips @ 1.5% != 3%. 2 chips @ 1.5% = 1.5% of the cost of TWO chips. (Mathematically: (A + A) * 0.015 = (2A) * 0.015. For example, if a chip costs $7.50, then 15 * 0.015 = 0.225. The way you're wording it is 15 * 0.03 = 0.45. Also taking into account the controller cost is different from the cost per ram chip, you simply can't simplify it to 6% of the total cost. They're two distinct values that need to be calculated separately.

Thanks for the spelling correction.

On example 2, I was basing it off of $100, which I should have clarified. To go down line item by line item would have been too long, but I wanted to let readers know the gist where I was coming at. 1.5% royalty for an item worth $100 is $1.5. So 2 chips is $3 with controllers usually having double the royalty rate, which would earn another $3.

Essentially, my main point remains the same. They would have gathered a ton of money and became a monopoly on designing future revolutions and evolutions of RDRAM.
 

Azurik

Platinum Member
Jan 23, 2002
2,206
12
81
In for 10 contracts nov $20 calls for RMBS

lose lunch money or go on vacation

The funny thing is, if it does go past $20, you still might lose out on profit.

The options right now are extremely expensive given the votility. Assuming after the decision has been made and voltility and open interest dies down, you're profit from the intrinsic value of the option can be nullified by the reduced premium of the option.
 

Azurik

Platinum Member
Jan 23, 2002
2,206
12
81
I just realized I had some more money in one of my IRA accounts, so I bought 500 more RMBS shares at $13.70 and 5 more Sept $10 puts for protection.

I'm traveling to L.A. to visit my best friend later this week followed immediately to Ukraine for 1 1/2 weeks... hope the action starts before I go!
 

chihlidog

Senior member
Apr 12, 2011
884
1
81
Can I ask you all for your thoughts on THQ? Very, very cheap right now. I dont understand why, but looking at its price history, and looking at some of the games coming out, I cant imagine it wont go back up quite a bit.

Any feedback?

I just realized I had some more money in one of my IRA accounts, so I bought 500 more RMBS shares at $13.70 and 5 more Sept $10 puts for protection.

I'm traveling to L.A. to visit my best friend later this week followed immediately to Ukraine for 1 1/2 weeks... hope the action starts before I go!

Awesome. I'd love to go to Ukraine.
 
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SunnyD

Belgian Waffler
Jan 2, 2001
32,674
145
106
www.neftastic.com
Can I ask you all for your thoughts on THQ? Very, very cheap right now. I dont understand why, but looking at its price history, and looking at some of the games coming out, I cant imagine it wont go back up quite a bit.

Any feedback?



Awesome. I'd love to go to Ukraine.

Game publishers ebb and flow with the release of titles. You'll usually only see real gains (or losses) around the release of a AAA blockbuster title, which THQ honestly hasn't had in a while. And honestly, there's really nothing on the horizon that would be considered "earth-shattering" for THQ either. Blockbuster titles are usually released once every 3 to 5 years for a typical game publisher, a bit sooner (~2 years) if they have a franchise to milk, which THQ does not have.

About the only real jump you'd see in any near timeframe would be because of an acquisition by one of the bigger fish in the pond at this point in time... something that THQ has been resisting to date.
 

chihlidog

Senior member
Apr 12, 2011
884
1
81
Game publishers ebb and flow with the release of titles. You'll usually only see real gains (or losses) around the release of a AAA blockbuster title, which THQ honestly hasn't had in a while. And honestly, there's really nothing on the horizon that would be considered "earth-shattering" for THQ either. Blockbuster titles are usually released once every 3 to 5 years for a typical game publisher, a bit sooner (~2 years) if they have a franchise to milk, which THQ does not have.

About the only real jump you'd see in any near timeframe would be because of an acquisition by one of the bigger fish in the pond at this point in time... something that THQ has been resisting to date.

Thanks for the input. Maybe I'll stay away from it. I was kinda thinking though that Metro and Warhammer were big enough franchises to shoot it up.
 
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FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
29,307
2,099
126
Gold down to $1600. People still holding?

Recent article that I don't have an opinion on:
http://www.cnbc.com/id/44667027

Berkshire buy back announced.

Considering the economic uncertainty in the world and the potential for another brush with default, it is shocking (to say the least) that precious metals have fallen so far and so fast:



Silver down almost 40% in 3 trading days? Perhaps too much speculation was going on and a bubble occured.
 

SunnyD

Belgian Waffler
Jan 2, 2001
32,674
145
106
www.neftastic.com
Thanks for the input. Maybe I'll stay away from it. I was kinda thinking though that Metro and Warhammer were big enough franchises to shoot it up.

Well looking at the stock - the Warhammer release has done nothing to offset the general market slide, and Metro honestly isn't a AAA title.

I will say that at these prices there's no reason NOT to buy provided you're willing to invest long term. The price is good (though looks like it may go down a bit further). Basically you'd be willing to bet that THQ will be:

1) announcing/releasing a blockbuster title within the next few years
2) being acquired at a premium

or

3) investing long term waiting for the market to pick up

To be fair, odds are you can't really go wrong. THQ is a fairly solid publisher, and I believe EA has made a couple of attempts to purchase them in the past. You can bet if the market stays down for any length of time, THQ may reconsider a new offer this time around, and EA is always happy to throw its money around willy nilly.

If you do drop money on them, don't expect huge gains regardless. I could see it bumping back up around $4-5/share once the market gets back on trade, possibly $8-10 if "something" interesting happens with them (title release/acquisition). But like I said, you'd really be investing with about a ~3 to 5 year outlook.
 
Sep 29, 2004
18,665
67
91
Considering the economic uncertainty in the world and the potential for another brush with default, it is shocking (to say the least) that precious metals have fallen so far and so fast:
... img removed ...
Silver down almost 40% in 3 trading days? Perhaps too much speculation was going on and a bubble occured.

last week, the CBOE tightened margin requirements on gold. Second time this has happened in the past few months. Each time came with a 10% drop in Gold. I doubt this practice at the CBOE will stop if gold runs up again. What some see as a bull market, the CBOE sees as risk.
 

chihlidog

Senior member
Apr 12, 2011
884
1
81
I've looked but cant seem to find any updates - is the jury still deliberating in the Rambus case?

Slow and steady gains on it today but I would expect a much wilder swing if the verdict came through.
 

endervalentine

Senior member
Jan 30, 2009
700
0
0
I've looked but cant seem to find any updates - is the jury still deliberating in the Rambus case?

Slow and steady gains on it today but I would expect a much wilder swing if the verdict came through.

a few people in court providing "live" updates and posting on http://www.investorvillage.com ... still no verdict. i'm sure you'll see a much bigger change when the verdict comes out.

my question is why do people think they will have a verdict so early ... they've only been deliberating for 2-3days.
 

SunnyD

Belgian Waffler
Jan 2, 2001
32,674
145
106
www.neftastic.com
a few people in court providing "live" updates and posting on http://www.investorvillage.com ... still no verdict. i'm sure you'll see a much bigger change when the verdict comes out.

my question is why do people think they will have a verdict so early ... they've only been deliberating for 2-3days.

Normally, the longer a verdict takes, the less likely of a positive outcome with egregious damages. Basic translation: People hope for an open and shut slam-dunk case because it leads to a black and white decision that usually means major harm was done therefore high damages will be awarded.
 

endervalentine

Senior member
Jan 30, 2009
700
0
0
Normally, the longer a verdict takes, the less likely of a positive outcome with egregious damages. Basic translation: People hope for an open and shut slam-dunk case because it leads to a black and white decision that usually means major harm was done therefore high damages will be awarded.

I actually thought the opposite (for some odd reason), I thought the quicker the decision, the easier it was for them to throw the case out and decide for the defendants.

But the folks on the IV board seem to think something will be out this afternoon .. dunno if it's just wishful thinking or not or whether this was why there was a run up this morning.
 

chihlidog

Senior member
Apr 12, 2011
884
1
81
a few people in court providing "live" updates and posting on http://www.investorvillage.com ... still no verdict. i'm sure you'll see a much bigger change when the verdict comes out.

my question is why do people think they will have a verdict so early ... they've only been deliberating for 2-3days.

Never know how long it will take. I didnt THINK there was one, but was curious. Thanks for the link.
 
Sep 29, 2004
18,665
67
91
I actually thought the opposite (for some odd reason), I thought the quicker the decision, the easier it was for them to throw the case out and decide for the defendants.

But the folks on the IV board seem to think something will be out this afternoon .. dunno if it's just wishful thinking or not or whether this was why there was a run up this morning.

Well, that depends on what information you are tryign to confirm.

Has anyone actually looked up studies on this?
 
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