Official 2012-2013 NBA Playoffs Thread

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Red Storm

Lifer
Oct 2, 2005
14,233
234
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The problem is, Jackson can't go big without looking at a huge gap in his offense. If you put Landry in with Bogut, you can have a mismatch at the PF position and Landry will be abused. Ezeli in with Bogut and you lose offense, and Ezeli isn't the most stellar defender if they extend him out with Diaw or Bonner. Regardless of going big, the issue was that the Warriors refused to try and force San Antonio into half court sets. When you have the lead like that, staying small ball runs an extremely high risk of mistakes and turnovers because they still play passive, trying to keep the lead. The issue here was Jackson, plain and simple - he was out-coached.

He out-coached himself. With a 16 point lead and only 3 minutes and change left, you just have to run the clock down. Instead for some stupid reason they shot early and often in the shot clock or just gave the ball up entirely. That was the worst 3-4 minutes of playoff basketball I've seen. Thankfully I'm not a true Warriors follower or I'd have gone crazy.
 

jman19

Lifer
Nov 3, 2000
11,220
654
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Losing David Lee was a blessing in disguise for the Warriors. They can bang the boards with Bogut (20 rbs in game 6 against Denver, 15 tonight) and then run small ball with the other four. It gives them more firepower on offense but doesn't surrender the boards. David Lee is/was a terrible terrible (terrible) defender.

One of my favorite Clyde Frazier quotes: "David Lee with the matador D."
 

zerocool84

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
36,041
472
126
It's the Warriors lack of experience that hurt them the most. At the end of regulation, Curry had the ball at the last second, he was doubled and panicked, he didn't know what to do so he just wildly threw up a shot. They can be dangerous in the coming years with more experience together.
 
May 13, 2009
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Does Jordan get shut down last night by the Bulls defense if he's in Lebron's shoes?

Hell no. Jordan > all. No discussion.
 
Nov 3, 2004
10,491
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The problem is, Jackson can't go big without looking at a huge gap in his offense. If you put Landry in with Bogut, you can have a mismatch at the PF position and Landry will be abused. Ezeli in with Bogut and you lose offense, and Ezeli isn't the most stellar defender if they extend him out with Diaw or Bonner. Regardless of going big, the issue was that the Warriors refused to try and force San Antonio into half court sets. When you have the lead like that, staying small ball runs an extremely high risk of mistakes and turnovers because they still play passive, trying to keep the lead. The issue here was Jackson, plain and simple - he was out-coached.

gap in the offense? The Warriors were doing just fine with both of them in the game. I didn't see any "offense" anyways with all the terrible isos they ran late. You know why he had to go big? Because we had a thin bench with all the fouls. You can't just run your guys into the ground, especially when you have a double-digit lead. Protect the lead even with subpar offense while you give guys like Curry a rest.
 

dougp

Diamond Member
May 3, 2002
7,909
4
0
gap in the offense? The Warriors were doing just fine with both of them in the game. I didn't see any "offense" anyways with all the terrible isos they ran late. You know why he had to go big? Because we had a thin bench with all the fouls. You can't just run your guys into the ground, especially when you have a double-digit lead. Protect the lead even with subpar offense while you give guys like Curry a rest.

Jackson went "big" for 14 minutes - that's how long Ezeli played. That's not including any time that Ezeli subbed in for Bogut, but I don't believe that happened much. As for not running people into the ground, well when you have injuries and people fouling out, there's not much of a choice other than outright conceding the game.
 
Nov 3, 2004
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Jackson went "big" for 14 minutes - that's how long Ezeli played. That's not including any time that Ezeli subbed in for Bogut, but I don't believe that happened much. As for not running people into the ground, well when you have injuries and people fouling out, there's not much of a choice other than outright conceding the game.

Ezeli never came back into the game after the first half I believe. With a +9 for the game. Curry never sat the entire game. There's no excuse when you still have some bodies on the court. This is even at the 4th quarter, when the Warriors have a double-digit lead.

I don't understand, are you agreeing with me, or arguing with me?
 

dougp

Diamond Member
May 3, 2002
7,909
4
0
Ezeli never came back into the game after the first half I believe. With a +9 for the game. Curry never sat the entire game. There's no excuse when you still have some bodies on the court. This is even at the 4th quarter, when the Warriors have a double-digit lead.

I don't understand, are you agreeing with me, or arguing with me?

Good question. I just think Jackson was out coached, as well as the inexperience of the Warriors abused.
 

preslove

Lifer
Sep 10, 2003
16,754
63
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Does Jordan get shut down last night by the Bulls defense if he's in Lebron's shoes?

Hell no. Jordan > all. No discussion.

If you bothered to actually look at basketball reference then you'd know that Jordan had several worse efforts in individual playoff games, you ignorant hater.

Hell, in 19990 he went 5 for 16 shooting for 20 points and 7 of 19 for 22 points of the eastern conference finals. If he had played better in a couple games, they would have probably won. Detroit managed to shut him down.

In the 1991 Jordan was held to 6-15 shooting for 22 points against Detroit in a game.

Lebron going 8-17 for 24 points, plus 8 rebounds 7 assists, 2 steals, and 1 block, isn't any worse than those efforts.

Srsly, just shut the fuck up about lebron james, you fucking moron.
 

DesiPower

Lifer
Nov 22, 2008
15,299
740
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Does Jordan get shut down last night by the Bulls defense if he's in Lebron's shoes?

Hell no. Jordan > all. No discussion.

F Jordan, F oldtimers, who the F cares to compares? lowlife dimwits. Nobody gives a flying F. Different time different player. It's like comparing yourself to your parent... F that shit, there is no comparison.
 

preslove

Lifer
Sep 10, 2003
16,754
63
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F Jordan, F oldtimers, who the F cares to compares? lowlife dimwits. Nobody gives a flying F. Different time different player. It's like comparing yourself to your parent... F that shit, there is no comparison.

qft, especially because LBJ plays a different position and has a different play style than MJ.

LBJ is much closer to Magic Johnson than Jordan, though Magic was a point guard and LBJ is a forward. If LBJ played as a traditional point guard, his numbers would probably about match Magic's, but he plays forward and gets more points and a couple fewer assists.
 
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May 13, 2009
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If you bothered to actually look at basketball reference then you'd know that Jordan had several worse efforts in individual playoff games, you ignorant hater.

Hell, in 19990 he went 5 for 16 shooting for 20 points and 7 of 19 for 22 points of the eastern conference finals. If he had played better in a couple games, they would have probably won. Detroit managed to shut him down.

In the 1991 Jordan was held to 6-15 shooting for 22 points against Detroit in a game.

Lebron going 8-17 for 24 points, plus 8 rebounds 7 assists, 2 steals, and 1 block, isn't any worse than those efforts.

Srsly, just shut the fuck up about lebron james, you fucking moron.

He's still not Jordan. I can't wait until they get thumped by Duncan, Ginobili, and Parker with Bonner dropping 3's.
 

Baked

Lifer
Dec 28, 2004
36,052
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You guys who are disrespecting the old school players aren't even considering the playing style then and now. Star players get babied so much now a days, they can go all season w/o a bruise. Compare to the physical play in the 80s and 90s, you'd be lucky if you don't break some ribs driving to the basket every night. Plug LBJ in the 80s and 90s playing the likes of Detroit and New York defense and he would pussy out after half a season.
 

jalaram

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
12,920
2
81
You guys who are disrespecting the old school players aren't even considering the playing style then and now. Star players get babied so much now a days, they can go all season w/o a bruise. Compare to the physical play in the 80s and 90s, you'd be lucky if you don't break some ribs driving to the basket every night. Plug LBJ in the 80s and 90s playing the likes of Detroit and New York defense and he would pussy out after half a season.

Or he would've adjusted to the style of play then (like the players of that time had to) and gotten tougher.
 
Feb 6, 2007
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You guys who are disrespecting the old school players aren't even considering the playing style then and now. Star players get babied so much now a days, they can go all season w/o a bruise. Compare to the physical play in the 80s and 90s, you'd be lucky if you don't break some ribs driving to the basket every night. Plug LBJ in the 80s and 90s playing the likes of Detroit and New York defense and he would pussy out after half a season.

He's possibly the most athletic player in the history of the NBA. You think if they let him be more physical, his response would be to quit playing the game rather than, say, knocking people over left and right? Who is guarding him in the early 90s? Anthony Mason? Dennis Rodman? Shawn Kemp? Buck Williams? Scottie Pippen? He'd throw those guys around like rag dolls. Karl Malone could probably bully him a bit, but outside of that, there's no one in LBJ's weight class.
 
May 13, 2009
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He's possibly the most athletic player in the history of the NBA. You think if they let him be more physical, his response would be to quit playing the game rather than, say, knocking people over left and right? Who is guarding him in the early 90s? Anthony Mason? Dennis Rodman? Shawn Kemp? Buck Williams? Scottie Pippen? He'd throw those guys around like rag dolls. Karl Malone could probably bully him a bit, but outside of that, there's no one in LBJ's weight class.

That's actually a pretty impressive list of defenders there. Especially the mailman. Much better than who's guarding him today.
 
May 13, 2009
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He's possibly the most athletic player in the history of the NBA. You think if they let him be more physical, his response would be to quit playing the game rather than, say, knocking people over left and right? Who is guarding him in the early 90s? Anthony Mason? Dennis Rodman? Shawn Kemp? Buck Williams? Scottie Pippen? He'd throw those guys around like rag dolls. Karl Malone could probably bully him a bit, but outside of that, there's no one in LBJ's weight class.

He's number two IMO athletically. Remember Jordan at 36 was still faster and more athletic than the rest of the NBA. Lebron at 34 will be an afterthought.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,481
8,342
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So yeah...was totally not expecting that outcome from Chicago. Curious if the resident Thibs hater (*cough* HendrixFan *cough ) still has the same attitude about him being a hack of a coach. They have to be one of the best "teams" in the league. Their rotations on defense and ability to "next man up" with a comically depleated bench are just incredible. They stole an entire series away from Brooklyn and just punked Miami on their home court with a clinic in the fourth quarter.

Now I *still* expect Miami to come out victorious, but it's going to be a hard, brutal and exhausting series for them.

Love Chicago and the mentality that Thibs has instilled in that group. Can't take away from the players though. Noah and Nate have more heart and emotion than most teams combined. Those two guys just throw the team on their back and drag everyone else with them.

They overrachieved in the regular season and they are even going beyond that in the playoffs. Eventually those 40+ minutes a game and lack of bodies are going to catch up and the dream is going to be over, but it's a fun ride until it does.
 

dbk

Lifer
Apr 23, 2004
17,685
10
81
Wow Nate Robinson.. what has gotten into him? Is it the coaching? How is he not turning the ball over every other possession? You might even say he's "clutch".. :O
 

Miramonti

Lifer
Aug 26, 2000
28,651
100
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So yeah...was totally not expecting that outcome from Chicago. Curious if the resident Thibs hater (*cough* HendrixFan *cough ) still has the same attitude about him being a hack of a coach. They have to be one of the best "teams" in the league. Their rotations on defense and ability to "next man up" with a comically depleated bench are just incredible. They stole an entire series away from Brooklyn and just punked Miami on their home court with a clinic in the fourth quarter.

Haha, no wonder he was touchy when I suggested Thibs kicked Spoelstra's @ss, lol. (which he did.)

Thibs may be characterized as a tough sergeant with a 'step up', 'next man', 'we have enough to win' mentality, but people don't realize he's a technician. The defense plays on a string because they know exactly their roles are in each scenario. The way their offense got good shots against an incredible defense was nothing short of amazing too...and another example of how detail oriented and structured his approach is. It's the sergeant in him that holds every player accountable to their roles in the execution on both ends. And when they fvck up, he tells them why, sometimes not as nicely as other time. But that's critical for success.

Chemistry is the other factor. They all seem to have respect for the strong coaching as well as the locker room leaders and feel they have each other's back. And I've never heard Thibs throw someone under the bus in public, another strength.

I think a lot of people misunderstand Thibs. He's substance and tools first, then discipline...not the other way around imo.

And Thibs kicked Spo's @ss not by shutting miami down - miami simply missed a lot of shots - but by how the offense picked apart miami's defense (aside from nate's awesomeness), and spo had no answer for it.
 
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