***Official*** 2012 Stock Market Thread

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manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
11,364
2,373
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I respect your opinion. I disagree with it, but definitely respect it.

I'm just at a loss of words when someone would consider RIMM for an investment but not AAPL, when their concerns about AAPL would be the same concerns for RIMM. That is without mentioning the obvious fact that the two companies are heading in opposite directions.
I don't know if there's value in RIM as a stock investment, having looked at it briefly last year when there was less pessimism. Honestly, it's old news by now but it's increasingly apparent RIM is fated to the tech scrap heap like Palm is. The smartphone market has been growing like gangbusters for 2 years and RIM and Nokia could not help but bleed away market share.

When the industry is growing sales at a phenomenal rate and you're getting your clock cleaned, how does that bode for a turnaround under more competitive conditions? Maybe there's deep value at such a low multiple but plenty of uncertainty to go along with it.
 

JEDI

Lifer
Sep 25, 2001
30,160
3,302
126
what % of your total net worth?

define net worth.
ie: including house? 401k?

in any event, i have 6 figures in small cap fund, which is 2/3's of my available cash.
the rest of it is in a money market/checking acct, cd's, or I-bonds.
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
define net worth.
ie: including house? 401k?

in any event, i have 6 figures in small cap fund, which is 2/3's of my available cash.
the rest of it is in a money market/checking acct, cd's, or I-bonds.

eh, keep it. but i guess depends on what valuations are in aug.
 

JEDI

Lifer
Sep 25, 2001
30,160
3,302
126
eh, keep it. but i guess depends on what valuations are in aug.

if i buy at multiple dates, do i still choose which price i sell at when i do my taxes?

in 2011, Vanguard forced me to pick one of the buy prices at the time i sold the EFT.
but my other brokrage house didnt???
 

Pliablemoose

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
25,195
0
56
RIMM should hire Jon Rubinstein and spend every penny of their free cash to buy back the stock.

I think Jon's time has come and gone, he's had a lot of time to fix WebOS, and it's still crap. I understand he's a real hoot at parties though, seriously...

I think RIM is almost there, but honestly, they need to kill the PlayBook, and work like hell to fix QNX.

From the rumor mongers at BGR, BB 10 is an god awful mess right now, if they launch a buggy new platform, they're going to become a penny stock.
 
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Oct 20, 2005
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They're not a LinkedIn or Groupon since they actually make money, but the price on opening day will probably be boosted (pre-market) so much, that it'd be "stupid" to buy. That's not to say that it won't go up...

If facebook will be anything like google, then it'd be stupid NOT to buy on the first day.
 
Sep 29, 2004
18,665
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So how much are you going to buy?

And why wouldn't they do the same thing with AAPL, which you seem to bash all the time?

What I get from this post is that you would rather invest in RIMM than AAPL.

Is RIMM a value stock or a growth stock? What is AAPL? You contradict yourself a lot.

Point well made. I am a hypocrite regarding RIMM/AAPL.

The difference is that not a single person here is an AAPL bear. I am simply playing devils advocate. I'm over it. And I don't care. Your words do not make me any more or less money which this thread is about... investment. Do I have to repost the Ayn Rand quote for a third time?

I was pondering HTML 5. That could be the game changer that pretty much makes all apps cross platform ..... kinda like when people used to use web pages.

Sound crazy?
http://html5games.com/2011/05/angry-birds-html5/


Inevitability is knocking on everyones door. Funny things happen when you think for yourself and could care less about what other people think. Companies are not going to make an iOS app, a BBX app, a web app a droid app, etc etc etc if they can just support one code base in HTML 5. And yes, I know there are issues with this. But much less minor in nature than dealing with multiiple OSes. For example, HTML 5 can not write game data to your hard drive. But as "the cloud" expands it should become less and less of an issue. Oh, the game can be "downloaded" for offline play. That is not an issue with HTML 5. just game save data can't be saved from what I understand. HTML 5 is to be finalized in 2014 from what I have read. Some browsers support it now though. That link I posted to Angry Birds did not run by accident.

I'm just at a loss of words when someone would consider RIMM for an investment but not AAPL, when their concerns about AAPL would be the same concerns for RIMM. That is without mentioning the obvious fact that the two companies are heading in opposite directions.

The concerns of AAPL and RIMM are the same but the companies are headed in different directions. :whiste:GENIOUS:whiste:

I spent about 3 hours on RIMM today. Probably 2.95 hours more than you. Do you even know who Prem Watsa is? You might want to start there.

I wouldn't spend a penny on RIM unless they literally throw Mike and Jim off of the company property. The new guy is a figurehead and isn't changing anything.
Who are Mike and Jim? A guy named Thorsten is the CEO.

with Prem as a 5% holder and sitting on the board, it is a safe bet that Thorsten was hand picked by Watsa. 100% speculation though.

I don't know if there's value in RIM as a stock investment, having looked at it briefly last year when there was less pessimism. Honestly, it's old news by now but it's increasingly apparent RIM is fated to the tech scrap heap like Palm is. The smartphone market has been growing like gangbusters for 2 years and RIM and Nokia could not help but bleed away market share.

When the industry is growing sales at a phenomenal rate and you're getting your clock cleaned, how does that bode for a turnaround under more competitive conditions? Maybe there's deep value at such a low multiple but plenty of uncertainty to go along with it.

This is a worldwide market. There is more than the US in this world. In many countries (MANY), blackberry's are the defacto standard that people want. Blackberry has 40% worldwide market share. That is not a small percentage. Why do you think RIMM generates billions in free cash flow and has no debt?



So much more I want to say ..... but there is no point. I have learned from many, even Ayn Rand.

PS: Enjoy the shareholder dilution. That's a luxury I don't have to deal with in RIMM. And yes, I might buy some RIMM. I have all weekend to research it.
 

lothar

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2000
6,674
7
76
if i buy at multiple dates, do i still choose which price i sell at when i do my taxes?

in 2011, Vanguard forced me to pick one of the buy prices at the time i sold the EFT.
but my other brokrage house didnt???
Depends on who your broker is...Some brokers are not specific and do FIFO by default for you unless YOU tell them what you want(most people by default are not aware that they can do this). Others display everything and allow you to pick which specific trade lot you want to sell.

Wells Trade supports "specific identification" of shares. Every lot is it's own trade. You can choose which specific lot you want to sell.

Vanguard supports this too but I think you have to email them and identify which specific lot you want to sell. If you don't, they will call you which is very nice of them.

Fidelity supports this also I believe.

Can't say the same about the other brokers. Many brokers are lazy and will tell you it's up to spend hours using Microsoft Excel to track your average cost basis.
From the IRS point of view I believe they say that you are required to have written confirmation from the broker that identifies the lot or lots that you are selling. Many brokers, especially discount brokers, simply won't do this and say it is up to you to keep track of your basis.
I don't do any of that tracking cost basis nonsense.
 

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
11,364
2,373
136
IHateMyJob2004 said:
This is a worldwide market. There is more than the US in this world. In many countries (MANY), blackberry's are the defacto standard that people want. Blackberry has 40% worldwide market share. That is not a small percentage. Why do you think RIMM generates billions in free cash flow and has no debt?
40% worldwide market share huh?

If I pull fake numbers out of the air, can I do a victory dance too?

Here's a recent study showing the size of the global smartphone market and who the top players on a units basis are.

Apple Estimated to Retake Title of World's Largest Smartphone Vendor

But I'll just have to take your word for it, the company with 40% market share just canned its co-CEOs.

I've already admitted I don't know if RIM is a "good" investment, you're welcome to make your own opinions.
 

lothar

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2000
6,674
7
76
RIMM should hire Jon Rubinstein and spend every penny of their free cash to buy back the stock.
Heh.

Any thoughts on RIMM?

Prem Watsa sits on the board and just doubled his holding to be about 5% of all shares outstanding.

Quite frankly, if all you had were the financial statements and you knew the market cap but you didn't know the company that the financials were tied to, you would probably buy it.
http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=32606115&postcount=2356

Keep in mind my post was before their inventory buildup as mentioned by Imp(a few posts after mine), so that should knock down tangible book value even further.
http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=32606401&postcount=2360

Possibly true, but since we know that information, there's no need for us to ignore it.
In order for me to buy RIMM, they must be trading at a steep discount and their Co-CEOs and Co-Chairmen must have little influence.
This is like Yahoo getting rid of Jerry Yang, and sooner or later Ryan Bostock will be gone too.

Based on what I've heard, BBX(or BB10 if you want to call it that) isn't ready for prime-time.
I don't see how they'll be able to compete with iOS and Android.
 
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JEDI

Lifer
Sep 25, 2001
30,160
3,302
126
Depends on who your broker is...Some brokers are not specific and do FIFO by default for you unless YOU tell them what you want(most people by default are not aware that they can do this). Others display everything and allow you to pick which specific trade lot you want to sell.

Wells Trade supports "specific identification" of shares. Every lot is it's own trade. You can choose which specific lot you want to sell.

Vanguard supports this too but I think you have to email them and identify which specific lot you want to sell. If you don't, they will call you which is very nice of them.

Fidelity supports this also I believe.

Can't say the same about the other brokers. Many brokers are lazy and will tell you it's up to spend hours using Microsoft Excel to track your average cost basis.
From the IRS point of view I believe they say that you are required to have written confirmation from the broker that identifies the lot or lots that you are selling. Many brokers, especially discount brokers, simply won't do this and say it is up to you to keep track of your basis.
I don't do any of that tracking cost basis nonsense.


Explain?!
how do you reconsile profit/loss on your taxes???
 

lothar

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2000
6,674
7
76
Explain?!
how do you reconsile profit/loss on your taxes???
I don't.
Wells Trade supports "specific identification" of shares. Every lot is it's own trade. You can choose which specific lot you want to sell from.

Every time I make a trade, they don't mix it with the previous ones I've made on the same stock and therefore there is no "average" cost basis for them(or me) to calculate.

For example: Apple is currently worth $1.34/share
You bought 100 shares of Apple @ $1/share = $100
You bought 10 shares of Orange @ $100/share = $1,000
You bought 50 shares of Apple @ $0.8/share = $40
You bought 40 shares of Orange @ $92/share = $3,680
You bought 30 shares of Apple @ $2/share = $60

If I want to sell 10 shares of Apple, my Broker allows me to specifically pick which lot to sell from. For tax loss harvesting purposes, I pick the Apple @ $2/share lot and sell it.

Others will simply do FIFO by default meaning they automatically sell from the lot you bought from first which was the Apple @ $1/share lot.

Other brokers are lazy and will simply report you an "average" cost basis. In this case, your average cost basis of Apple is $1.111/share. If you sell 20 shares, that's $3.78 in profit. A few traders plug their trades in Microsoft Excel to use a different accounting method from what their brokers used if they don't agree with the particular method being used to track profit/loss. I don't have time to do any of that, so I only use brokers that support "specific identification" of shares. Wells Trade, Vanguard, and Fidelity supports that...Scottrade did not support this(as of 2 years ago?...not sure about now). I can't say the same about other brokers.

Wells Trade will tell you the cost basis of the shares you sell. It will be the amount of money you used to purchase those exact lot of shares that you are selling and not an "average" cost basis. That means you don't have to do any crazy math or plug values in Microsoft Excel and keep track of your profit/loss trades for hours on end.
 
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hiromizu

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2007
3,405
1
0
This is a very good point that you've brought up as I've had the question for a long time but Scottrade would never give me the option which always screwed up my accounting. I wouldn't mind paying extra in transaction fees for this.

I don't.
Wells Trade supports "specific identification" of shares. Every lot is it's own trade. You can choose which specific lot you want to sell from.

Every time I make a trade, they don't mix it with the previous ones I've made on the same stock and therefore there is no "average" cost basis for them(or me) to calculate.

For example: Apple is currently worth $1.34/share
You bought 100 shares of Apple @ $1/share = $100
You bought 10 shares of Orange @ $100/share = $1,000
You bought 50 shares of Apple @ $0.8/share = $40
You bought 40 shares of Orange @ $92/share = $3,680
You bought 30 shares of Apple @ $2/share = $60

If I want to sell 10 shares of Apple, my Broker allows me to specifically pick which lot to sell from. For tax loss harvesting purposes, I pick the Apple @ $2/share lot and sell it.

Others will simply do FIFO by default meaning they automatically sell from the lot you bought from first which was the Apple @ $1/share lot.

Other brokers are lazy and will simply report you an "average" cost basis. In this case, your average cost basis of Apple is $1.111/share. If you sell 20 shares, that's $3.78 in profit. A few traders plug their trades in Microsoft Excel to use a different accounting method from what their brokers used if they don't agree with the particular method being used to track profit/loss. I don't have time to do any of that, so I only use brokers that support "specific identification" of shares. Wells Trade, Vanguard, and Fidelity supports that...Scottrade did not support this(as of 2 years ago?...not sure about now). I can't say the same about other brokers.

Wells Trade will tell you the cost basis of the shares you sell. It will be the amount of money you used to purchase those exact lot of shares that you are selling and not an "average" cost basis. That means you don't have to do any crazy math or plug values in Microsoft Excel and keep track of your profit/loss trades for hours on end.
 

mshan

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2004
7,868
0
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Bridge to Nowhere?:
- http://www.cnbc.com/id/46171675
- (personal observation regarding PIMCO appearances on CNBC tv: ever since they started managing equity in addition to bonds, I always get this uneasy feeling that Bill Gross, El-Erian, and whomever they trot out are talking PIMCO's own book, rather than providing insightful analysis. Smartest guy I've ever seen on CNBC is Tony Crescenzi and he seemed to have great public (i. e. voiced on CNBC on TV) market insights when he was chief bond strategist at Miller Tabek and U. S. markets were really getting roiled in 2007, 2008, 2009. Would be really interesting to know what someone like that is saying in private to PIMCO investing committees when they are discussing how to really deploy those huge mountains of assets that company has accumulated over time)



Forbearance and "Financial Stability":
"Why I oppose Financial Stability

Financial Stability became a topic in the late 1990s, at a time of peak laxity in international financial supervision. The same minds which promoted the Financial Stability Forum (now the Financial Stability Board) also crafted the deeply flawed and destructive Basel II.

I have never understood why Financial Stability should be an objective of public policy. Desirable, measurable outcomes of benefit to the public should be the objectives of public policy. Stability is a silly and impractical goal in a capitalist economy. Success and failure of competitive firms are the basis for economic progress, capital allocation and market pricing. Capitalism requires recognition of failure, and failure always causes economic loss and some instability as past assumptions are re-examined and re-assessed more objectively in light of current painful reality.


The management of failure can contribute to better future outcomes, but only if the costs of failure are born by those who caused the failure and not by those innocent of it. The 1990s policies promoted by regulators during the Great Moderation aimed to forestall failure by disguising it, delaying it, and subsidising it. Since the collapse of securitisation and inter-bank credit markets in 2008, governments have been too willing to socialise the costs of failure (by then magnified with leverage) to taxpayers through serial bailouts.


One strength of the US banking system from the 1930s to the 1980s was that failures were dealt with quickly and certainly. Foreclosed properties had to be sold by banks within two years of repossession, leading to a quick and certain reallocation of assets from failed borrowers to new owners. The FDIC swiftly and mercilessly shut down failed banks. New owners - often buying at distressed prices - were encouraged to invest in making the assets productive and profitable. It was this simple recycling from failed managers to better managers that was largely behind the short recessions and strong recoveries during this period of American economic history. With forbearance now institutionalized at all levels of the US economy, we are seeing Japanification instead of recovery. And it is even worse just about everywhere else where dominant banks are much more influential.


Financial Stability - like national security - can never be objectively confirmed as achieved. It is more often used to disguise the ulterior aims of its proponents, or to misdirect attention in aid of bad public policy that harms rather than promotes the public interest. For example, the Greenspan Put was a brilliant mechanism for ensuring financial stability by preventing any adjustment of the markets in response to the S&L crisis or dot-com bust. The Bernanke Put and Paulson Plan were financial stability solutions to the securitisation fraud crisis that revealed the undercapitalisation of global banks and over-leveraging of real estate. Bank bailouts and special liquidity facilities were financial stability innovations to prevent mark downs of mis-priced and illiquid capital assets.


Rather than review whether massive financial deregulation and promoting concentration in a few incumbents was in the public interest, the Greenspan Put, Bernanke Put, liquidity facility innovations and public bailouts have disguised misallocation of capital by pumping the markets with taxpayer funds and monetary laxity whenever they began to flag. Financial Stability initiatives have therefore taught incumbent bankers that any disruption is an excuse to double down on bad bets as the central banks and state treasuries would flood enough cash to make bad bets come good. MF Global
made this bet, and although it (and its clients) won't be collecting, I expect the creditors/counterparties that seized all its collateral assets expect to come out way ahead.

I oppose Financial Stability because it is the most misleading banner for a set of bad, harmful and expensive public policies protecting bad executive management and preventing recognition of realistic market outcomes.


So what would I promote instead? Resiliency and resolution. Resiliency means the ability to withstand stresses and shocks which will unavoidably arise in global, competitive markets. Resolution means the dispersion of assets to creditors - and competitors - when banks fail, in hopes the assets and enterprises will be better managed by other managers than the same ones that led the bank to failure. Together these two principles - if made the basis for public policy - would do more to restore sanity to global banking than anything else I can think of. Resiliency will favour more and better capitalisation, with a focus on marketable assets with transparent price discovery (e.g., traded on transparent markets and recorded on balance sheet). Speedy and certain resolution of failed banks will make management and shareholders conscious of the risks of failure falling first on them, then on unsecured creditors and bondholders, and never on the taxpayer.


We are a long way from adopting principles of resiliency and resolution, as demonstrated by the EU's continued efforts to forestall defaults while protecting incumbent managements and bondholders. Our policy makers continue to chase the
chimera of financial stability, and make bad policies worse along the way."

http://londonbanker.blogspot.com/2011/12/why-i-oppose-financial-stability.html


Clinton-esque Moment and The Ultimate End-Game
:

- http://seekingalpha.com/article/321072-europe-staring-into-the-abyss
- http://www.zerohedge.com/news/chris-martenson-interviews-john-mauldin-its-time-make-hard-decisions (I think the full 38 minute audio podcast is well worth listening to, but there are particularly good remarks starting around 24 minute mark - Greece and Portugal in depression, Italy in prolonged recession, moment of truth for France years down the road, U. S. can avert it's moment of truth, but will require politically painful decisions) I guess implicit is Germany will ultimately be fine, UK will come out stronger, though in new world order will they be a marginal player if they don't buy into the EU project, Spain seemed to have responsible fiscal policy in past, but got caught up in credit and housing bubble, are dealing with post-crash fallout, but seem to be putting in place that will let them heal down the road. Also, listening to that full podcast, it seems like he still may be in denial regarding change in market sentiment post-LTRO (his investing recommendations remind me of Kyle Bass' comments in video linked below about recommending to his presumably really, really wealthy investors (maybe more concerned about staying rich after inflation, rather than trying to hit a home run in stock market as Cramer commented on previously when he was broker and was selling municipal bonds to his wealthy clients) real physical assets that generate income while we go through a turbulent and uncertain 5 years - e. g. oil and gas MLPs or like Cramer was doing, buying a physical asset, apartment building, that will generate income while we wait). Whether he ultimately gets proven right, 5 - 10 years down the road, only time will tell...
- http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000056089
- Eurobonds? (ultimately, in terms of recapitalizing the European banking system, I start to think back to trial balloons the Troika (EU, ECB, IMF) may have been sending to market in September or October 2011, and specifically Bob Pisani's voicing of what is presumably market participants wishes, are they ultimately hoping to pick up distressed European assets at a tremendous discount and profit enormously when the problem is ultimately fixed and sustained global growth can resume?) Here I also think of news articles about Merkel saying Eurobonds are not the solution right now (fiscal compact has to be in place so German taxpayers are ultimately pouring money into an endless black hole)
"It was late in September of 1998. I was flying from New York to Bermuda to speak at a hedge fund conference, and found myself upgraded at the last minute, back in the day when I did not fly that much, so I was feeling rather happy. As the door closed, a patrician-looking gentleman stepped in and came and sat next to me, immediately picking up a file and burrowing into it. I had a book and the Wall Street Journal, so I was content to read.

As soon as we took off, he asked for a scotch. He proceeded, over the next hour, to wage a very aggressive war on the diminishing cache of scotch bottles stored on board. (No, it was not Art Cashin. He doesn't fly.) It was an arduous campaign, but he was fully committed to winning.


He glanced over to my
Journal and noted some headline about the crisis that had occurred the previous week. I had been following the extreme market volatility with interest, but this was in the first decade of the internet, so most of what you came by you still read in print or heard on the phone.

"They don't really know how close we came," he shuddered, his eyes showing the first signs of emotion – and fear – I had seen from him. That piqued my interest, and I engaged him, though without touching his precious hoard of scotch. I settled for a nice chardonnay. It turned out he was the second-ranking executive at one of the three largest banks in the country. He had been at the table in the NY Fed boardroom when 14 banks were forced to put in $3.625 billion to keep Long Term Capital from collapsing, with only Bear Stearns declining (one of the reasons they had no friends ten years later). The NY Fed president had essentially called all the heads of the banks, told them to be in the room, not to send proxies, and to bring their checkbooks. There was subsequently a lot of criticism of the Fed, but they did what a central bank is supposed to do in times like that: they made the children play nice in the sandbox. They were the only entity that could force the various monster-ego players to even sit in the same room with each other.


"No one will ever really know," he said again. But of course, soon everyone did, as Roger Lowenstein wrote the must-read real-life thriller
When Genius Failed.

"We walked to the edge of the abyss, and we looked over." He proceeded to regale me with the stories of the negotiations, as the immensity of what would happen if they allowed the collapse dawned on the group one by one. They all had exposure to LTCM* but did not realize the extent of it until it was too late. Looking back, it might have looked something like the credit crisis of 2008 if they had not acted, except it would have happened much faster.

I can tell you that no one in that room wanted to write a $300-million check. It was not good for their careers. Interestingly, after two years the fund was liquidated and the banks got back their capital plus a small profit.

Now, the bankers and leaders of Europe are getting ready to walk to the edge of the Abyss. It will be a long way down, and look like the 7th level of Dante's Inferno."



* makes me chuckle (in a tongue in cheek, sadistic, self-defeating sort of way) at the irony of the line in the ficticious movie Margin Call where Tuld says there is 7 trillion dollars invested around the world based upon that (mathematical) equation (I don't think Tuld was referring to LTCM's mathematical models, but more alluding profiting from the securitzation of subprime toxic waste with maximum leverage, all using borrowed funds that need to be turned over frequently)




To me, next real, multi-year, secular (not cyclical) bull market won't occur until markets really, truly believe that everyone gets real and deals with underlying problem* (we all have too much debt and there isn't enough money to pay off at that debt at par), and solution isn't just throwing a wall of liquidity at problem, hoping time fixes problem (gentlemanly default through slower than optimal growth, higher than desired inflation, and competitive currency devaluations) and letting future generations pay ultimate bill...

* For US in isolation, perhaps that means fundamental tax reform that so capital is properly allocated, higher taxes on the uber-rich (0.1% vs. 1%?), real entitlement reform (to me, this specifically means Medicare (not Medicare per se, but health care inflation and things like death panels and how much money is being poured into end of life without seeing improved outcomes for the population as a whole and defense spending (out of controlled defense spending with no real cost controls and competitiveness to enforce market discipline in terms of military really getting what they pay for - there was some CNBC video clip I pasted into either the OT or P&N forum last fall / winter where some politican from Pennsylvania was on Squawk Box and talked about how size of military was same as it was many years ago but how there has been tremendous military expenditure inflation / waste since then), and structural reform to economy to make it more competitive in global markets going forward (infrastructure, education, judicious immigration policy, energy independence, other) Without doing any real in depth study, Social Security just seems to need some minor tweaks to bridge the time between when Baby Boomers are withdrawing a lot of funds and millenials (18 - 24 years olds are supposed to represent larger buldge in U. S. population profile than Baby Boomers do now - I saw this comment on CNBC in some video clip where they were essentially discussing who will be new buyers into stock market going forward) And this is presumably different way of saying Al Gore's lock-box on Social Security and what Kyle Bass apparently told Barney Frank regarding I think IMF funding (it's just an IOU and we'll never have to really pay that bill - Kyle Bass comments starting at 20:30 mark, though if you have an hour, the whole video clip is well worth watching http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5V3kpKzd-Yw))

http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000060748



(end of most recent, random, stream of consciousness rant)

 
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SSSnail

Lifer
Nov 29, 2006
17,461
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This is a very good point that you've brought up as I've had the question for a long time but Scottrade would never give me the option which always screwed up my accounting. I wouldn't mind paying extra in transaction fees for this.
If I remember correctly, you can set that up in the options somewhere. Been a while since I meddle with Scottrade interface.
 
Sep 29, 2004
18,665
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never mind ....

Too curious of Blackberry market share in more detail. 40% market share in the world is a start. But watching the NHL skills combetition withte BlackBerry ad on the boards makes me wonder what market share is in Canada.

UPDATE:
Wow, worldwide I didn't realize how much Android is killing everyone. Also, I didn't know RIMM used to have 30% market share in the US a few years ago. Worldwide it looks like a battle between Apple and Android and well ..... Android seems to be the big dawg. I wanted a slide out keyboard so an Apple wasn't even an option. I guess that's what closed architectures gets you.

UPDATE 2:
Watsa still believes there is substantial value in the company and that its stock will rise again, for several reasons. Paul Rivett, Chief Legal Officer and Vice President, Fairfax Financial Holdings Limited, said in an email what Watsa sees in RIMM: “Trading at less than book, 75 million subscribers and growing, $700 million free cash flow in last reported three months, $1.5 billion in cash, No. 1 smartphone in many large growing markets, genius founders invested in company and buying more stock and seasoned operator in Heins.”

That's Thorsten Heins... the new CEO ....

UPDATE 3:
Doing more reading, I might throw some money at RIMM and see what happens. The more I read, the more I think that the company is on the path of success.
 
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Sep 29, 2004
18,665
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ROLLING ON THE FUCKING FLOOR LAUGHING MY ASS OFF

http://us.blackberry.com/developers/

UPDATE:
Gaining a better understanding of HTML 5. Still learning but man, HTML 5 is going to an revolutionary step. take note of the word i used. Revolutionary. It is a much different word than evolutionary. It's hard to wrap my head around all of the implications that HTML 5 will bring (cause). Interesting that RIMM sees it. Does Apple and Google?

It's been so long. This is a fun exercise. Almost want to learn HTML 5.

UPDATE 2:
Ya, google and Apple both see HTML 5 coming. This is getting interesting to read about. I'd provide a full write up but there is alot to take in and I don't know the half of it.
 
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PimpJuice

Platinum Member
Feb 14, 2005
2,051
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I spent about 3 hours on RIMM today. Probably 2.95 hours more than you. Do you even know who Prem Watsa is? You might want to start there.

Yes, I know who Prem Watsa is. It doesn't help that you throw his name around over and over in your posts to give yourself some sort of credibility by doing so.

What does Watsa have to do with anything. He owns 5% of RIM? If you really think RIM is a good investment at this stage just because Watsa has some, then I don't know what to tell you. I guarantee you Watsa wouldn't say some of the stupid things you say on here regarding AAPL.
 
Sep 29, 2004
18,665
67
91
Yes, I know who Prem Watsa is. It doesn't help that you throw his name around over and over in your posts to give yourself some sort of credibility by doing so.

What does Watsa have to do with anything. He owns 5% of RIM? If you really think RIM is a good investment at this stage just because Watsa has some, then I don't know what to tell you. I guarantee you Watsa wouldn't say some of the stupid things you say on here regarding AAPL.

What have I said about Apple? .... and don't take things out of context.

OK, I am a Prem Watsa Fan Boy. Atleast I admit it and I don't act like a jackanape over it. I accept it and move on. Do you tie your name to Apple in a forum full of "tech nerds" to just to throw the name around over and over in your posts to give yourself some sort of credibility by doing so. (See how I did that there with your words?)

Prem Watsa has everything to do with Everything. He is often referred to as "The Canadian Warren Buffett". the number of people that can be referred to as the next Warren Buffett can be counted on one hand. He is often buying out of favor companies with a hidden catalyst. TXI being a painfully obvious example of this.

Are you some sort of moron? Watsa is a reason to investigate. Nothing more, nothing less. Do you read? The thread of conversation regarding RIMM and Watsa in chronological order is not hard to understand. The thread iof conversation regarding this did not start with "I am buying RIMM because Watsa is". It started with "WHY?" It is painfully obvious that you are some sort of fan boy for Apple. Why else would you be so closed minded? You probably skimmed my posts. What I have said is fairly clear in chronological order. You have no clue what HTML 5 is. You have no clue of what the competition is up to. You have no clue about many things being done by none Apple anything. You have no clue.

What is it that I have said that is so bad about Apple? One fucking thing. And not a single person here followed up on the thought. It was an asinine thought. You think I didn't know it when I said it. it was the 0.000001% chance of being a real outcome. I know the AAPL balance sheets. They are nothing like Enrons. But why bother looking at Enron? That would take like effort and stuff. You didn't spend a second on Enron. Within 10 minutes you could have found the balance sheets and saw the obvious. One minute later you could have pointed out my fallacy in an intelligent manner. So ... 111 minutes of effort in trying to gain knowledge vs whatever it is you did. It is painfully obvious. When the tide goes out, those wearing no shorts are exposed. That is you. Everyone here did not spend one second on Enron. And if they did, they did not spend a second thinking about anything. 11 minutes..... think about what 4 hours on RIMM could do. I spent 4 hours on RIMM tonight. About 15 minutes of that was looking at a top level overview of RIMM. A vast majority of my time has been spent on future tech that RIMM and Apple and Google seems to give a shit about.

I agree ... I guarantee you Watsa wouldn't say some of the things I say on here regarding AAPL. But you know what he would say? I went further in 5 hours than you have in days? months? years? Do you even know anything about HTML 5? If one hour alone trying to educate yourself on HTML 5 is too much effort, you might as well look into index funds.

I'm done defending myself. Why is it that you are so devoted to Apple? And I get shit for calling people fan boys? A 4th reference to that Ayn Rand quote is needed.

PS: The Ayn Rand quote thing is a test ..... no .... the 4th reference to the Ayn Rand quote is a test.
 
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Pliablemoose

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
25,195
0
56
What have I said about Apple? .... and don't take things out of context.

As far as RIM, I honestly don't know, IMHO, it's possible they can pull off a recovery, but they have a hell of a lot riding on QNX, I like to speculate and trade the industry, but I see no clear path for RIM, buying a PlayBook for $184 and hoping they sort out the OS and the update due next month for the PlayBook OS release next month is about all the speculating I'm willing to do with RIM.

What I see is a clear bias on your part about Apple, you constantly say anyone buying or trading Apple stock isn't an investor.

Here you are recommending print media over Apple, holy fuck, print media???:

How much have you researched print media? It's funny. Everyone shares the same opinion but no one does the research. What are the risks to print medias business model? Are those risks being addressed?

The only risk is risk of loss of capital. And with Apple, valuation supports that it is very high risk. With LEE, there is almost no risk other than the fact that they need to keep up with changing technolgies. The beuaty of print media used to be stagnant technological changes along iwth the fact that they are commonly monopolies or duopolies in the regions they serve. The thing is, they are still monopolies or duopolies. The content devilery mechanism is simply evolving faster than it used to. At the same time though, capital expenditures should actual be reduced over time due to digitial media. Also, there is less paper and ink to buy. And printing for conglomoerites can become more centralized as the demand for print media reduces.

Here you are saying a 35 year old company won't last another 10, 8 years to go (you made that post in 2010:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=30448681&postcount=137

I continually think about shorting Apple stock. They will not be around in 10 years.

Here you are saying Apple is worth about $220 and that anyone that buys Apple isn't "investing":

Cramer is right half the time. For what it is worth, most value investors place Apple at $80-$220 in terms of intrinsic value. Surprisingly, I'm in the $220 camp. I'm also in the, "I would never invest in Apple" camp though so who cares. Their financial reporting sucks. I can't say it any more simply. They have other issues though like Moat. People forget how easy it is t enter a market and most forget that if Zune worked out for MSFT, that people would have a different opinion of Apple these days. Tech is that way though, so anyone with the balls .... happy speculating (don't call it investing, it's not)

Proctor and Gamble is to good of an investment to pass up on right now so that's where my last buy was. Think about things in both bottom up and a top down outlook. Invert, always invert :-0

Oh, That WFC stock I bought earlier in the year is up over 100% now. It's much easier being patient and waiting for opportunity to arise, granted PG isn't that undervalued.

More sage advice on tech by IHMJ, Up 3 points since 2008? And you told a poster they didn't understand tech in this post too :

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=26900448&postcount=1817

If you really want tech that bad, go buy ISIL. A DCF might tell you it is worth $40 while it is selling for $10/share. The funny thing is that I would not touch it since the future free cash flows can be predicted with little certainty.

Here you are predicting Apple will die again:

1) apple inovates ... success
2) competitor clones
1) apple inovates ... success
2) competitor clones
1) apple inovates ... failure
2) competitor makes their last clone cheaper/better
3) ?????

Eventually Apple will try to enter a new market segment or create a new market segment and it will fail. Or the evolution of a current product will be greated with shoulder shrugs by the public. It is a matter of when, not if. With a quickly evolving industry like the one Apple is involved in, it could be 2 years from now that this occurs. And when it occurs and people start thinking that earnings are about to stall or fail, the stock will get hammered. I don't think this will hapen next week. I do know it will happen. And I know it will not take 20 years.

And since people take things out of context, I will be clear. I am not saying it is going to happen 2 years from now.

As an investor, I don't worry about what people think of my thoughts. They involve more thought than going to macrumors.com and reading the thoughts of others (articles, analysts, etc). Only time will prove me right or wrong. And in my case, I don't care if I am right or wrong 20 years from now. I know that I am not taking risk now.

Seems that this is not a valuable conversation. Group think will always win against indepent thought. I will end it now in defeat. Good luck to all.

Here's a blast from 2004, my personal favorite (Had you bought $1000 worth of Apple stock in 2004, it'd be worth $60,000 today) :

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=12989464&postcount=15



No offense, but to justify the current quotation, AAPL needs to have 40% growth over the next 4 years. Good luck with that one. I doubt IPOD sales will be that good. Thanks for pointing out this short candidate though.

EIDT: I just looked at growth prospects overall. Projected 5 year growth is 15% annually. The next year or two should show much better growth though. That is an important factor. That would put the fair value at $20 or so, but the cash on hand ups that number by an additional $12/share. You just paid $39 for a $32 stock.

Could I be wrong?
Sure: "we believe that over the next two years Apple has the ability to grow its market share ahead of expectations"

IMHO: THe short term growth prospects have caused irrational optimism. In 2 years, this is going to be a slow growth comapny and the P/E will plummet.


You forget there's a search feature here, I just cherry picked a few of your comments, you can actually go back in this thread and find you trashing Apple. You have a ton of stuff posted...

Common themes:

!.) Apple will be dead in 10 years

2.) Anyone who purchases Apple stock isn't an "investor"

3.) You've been calling Apple a poor stock pick for many years, you weren't just wrong, you were soooo wrong....

Seems your spelling has improved over the years (but so has spell checker technology), but your thought processes were still a little jacked up. I'm thinking an anxiety neurosis/or a couple of learning disabilities at the least or a major psych diagnosis with medication at some point in your life.

I don't care who you quote (you seem to be another Ann Rand moron, hell, just quote the bible for all the relevance it has to trading stocks), you're a fool, and one with a particularly short and selective memory.

Frankly, I think you owe everyone in this thread an apology.

What we'll get are a bunch of long neurotic posts with Ann Rand quotes, lectures about value investing, (and whatever buzzwords you've learned this week) and be reminded once again that you're the only true "investor" to justify your BS, and how you can see decades into the future.
 
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goog40

Diamond Member
Mar 16, 2000
4,198
1
0

No point in arguing with someone who "spent about 3 hours on RIMM today" and believes they have 40% worldwide market share. How can anyone say that without alarm bells going off in their head?
 
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