People fail at basic math. 50 point playoff games are quite rare, but even if LB (or anyone) hits 50, the rest of his teammates still need to produce 40 points to be in contention to win the game. Against these Spurs, it's more like 55 additional points.My entire point is that you can insert *any* player name in there it means the same thing. Outside of a few select instances, did you ever see a single high scoring stud carry a team through a championship. It takes an entire team effort to shoulder that.
Kobe can't carry a team on his own, neither can Carmelo. TMac couldn't, Lebron couldn't in Cleveland, Pierce couldn't before KG and Ray showed up. All those guys can go off for 40+ points in any single game. But it means nothing when you have no help from anyone else on your team.
Simple.
I didn't say they didn't play hard, but it was simple. If everything is one on one and double teams can only go to the ball after the arrival that is simple. Have you ever played basketball five on five? Have you ever played a game of one on one? Do you know the difference in style of play between the two? Do you understand the immense difference between modern team basketball defenses and the on a string mentality versus straight man on man?
C'mon, don't be silly.
lol.2003, Duncan
We've been through the whole "Lebron can score if he needs to" in this thread already. There are plenty of stats to back up the fact that he can and does score at historic levels when needed. Although, simply calling him a scorer sells his game short. The Heat offense is designed for him to be a facilitator and have things run through him. Bosh was reliable but not dominant in the Finals. Wade was atrocious, Battier was non existent, Mike Miller was amnestied, Allen was good but played too many minutes, Chalmers was awful. These are the guys who are supposed to help take the scoring load off of Lebron and be active on defense. Neither happened.
Jordan played against simple defenses. The game is so much more cerebral now with the rule changes. If Jordan was getting double or triple teamed it was only after he caught the ball. With good floor spacing, which the triangle had, that makes all the difference in the world. No player could sag off of their man to help until Jordan had the ball. Add in the floor spacing and they would have to cover so much ground to double team that Jordan can already make his one on one move.
Double and triple teams weren't really a thing then either because you couldn't run a weakside zone. If someone came to help on Jordan (or whoever in the 90s) then he would pass the ball out, forcing the help defender away, then get the ball right back. Players "Re-Posted" all the time on the block back then. Get the ball, see the double come, pass it back out to the wing, watch the second defender leave (or get a tech), then get the ball back again with the help defender moving away.
The game allowed for ISO players to do extraordinarily well. Melo would have had better numbers than Jordan if they swapped decades, he is a much more dynamic scorer than Jordan. Because of the evolution of defenses a two trick pony like Jordan wouldn't do well unless he revised his game (he probably would have put in the work to do so) in a big way. His Russell Westbrook-esque three point shooting would have been just as much of a liability for the team as it is for the Thunder now.
Jordan was a great scorer that was fortunate enough to play for the best coach ever, who designed an offense that allowed him to be a volume shooter only and be successful. Jordan scored a couple more points a game on five to six more shots at similar points in their career. Whoop. It helps when you have Rodman on your team, who is the best rebounder the game has ever seen, and it isn't even close, and a stellar defender. Add in Pippen who was able to carry the team to the ECF and two points from making the Finals without Jordan and you have a pretty good team. This notion that Jordan did everything on the floor isn't reality. He scored. He did it in ways that wouldn't be effective today. He did it with efficiency levels closer to Allen Iverson than Lebron James.
Jordan was great in his era. Compare him to Kobe if you want to see what his style of player would do in the modern game. Or Melo would be apt. Or even Durant, though Durant is growing out of the pure scorer mentality. The only comparison you can make between Jordan and Lebron is that they were both head and shoulders better than their competition in their prime.
I think being silly is pretending you understand defenses back in the day against Jordan simply because there were different rules on zones. You don't seem to be aware of how focused defenses and game plans were on slowing him down. It was always a zone against him, just disguised as man coverages. Sure the rules are a bit different now but the approach was the same.
lol.
Looks at roster.. Duncan, Robinson, Ginobili, Parker... Laughs again.
You can't compare the 2003 versions of Robinson, Manu or Parker to their prime versions. Get out of the thread.
I'd probably cease all conversations with the guy at this point. He's already claimed Melo would be a better player than Jordan in the 90's.
Shall we compare the 2003 spurs roster to the 2011 mavs then?
You can't compare the 2003 versions of Robinson, Manu or Parker to their prime versions. Get out of the thread.
Robinson was ~37 in 2003. Same age as Duncan now. 2 years older than Jordan on his last title, to which he played amazing. Game six, '98 finals against the Jazz, Jordan with the steal, the drive, "the last shot". That is the only thing Byron Russell will be remembered for.
Can we compare Duncan in 2014 to Duncan in 2003? He still made a large impact on the series.
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A big problem with Wade was his defense was pretty much non existent in the finals as well.
They want so badly a Jordan like figure they are trying to force it on James.
This is so full of stupid my head hurts. Jordan today would be far and away the best player even in today's game. Are you fucking kidding me? All I have to say to idiots such as yourself is Karl Malone. A player that thrived in the Jordan era that was dominating mo fuckers in the modern era when he was 40 years old. So don't give me the bullshit that Jordan would be nothing special today. You know what translates in any fucking era? Heart. Jordan had that in fucking spades on today's bitches like Lebron that leave their hometown for a sellout championship with a couple other bitches. Hell Lebron wasn't even the best player on the heat until Wade got old on him. Jordan was clutch and lived for the big shot. Lebron cowers and turns on his teammates. Dude is probably the most overrated player of all time and it's probably because of Jordan why the NBA insists on over hyping Lebron. They want so badly a Jordan like figure they are trying to force it on James.
If Jordan played without the handcheck? He'd score 45 a night on any night that Lebron isn't guarding him. With Lebron guarding him he'd be low 30s. Regardless of changes to off the ball defense.
If Jordan played without the handcheck? He'd score 45 a night on any night that Lebron isn't guarding him. With Lebron guarding him he'd be low 30s. Regardless of changes to off the ball defense.
Am I the only one here besides dougp and OILFIELDTRASH that has played basketball before? Like, picked up a ball and went and played? Throw me out in any game of pickup ball and guys handcheck. It isn't that big of a deal. Put me out there against a team that actually plays help defense (most pickup games don't) and you actually have to start trying.
You'd have a shorter list if you asked who hasn't played ball around here. Not sure how it affects the argument tho...the rules about impeding player movement are more pro-offensive player than they use to be, including hand checking as well as cuts across the lane etc.
True, but moving screens have opened up the game even moreso on offense. Defenses have adapted, also thanks to rule changes. The strongside trap/weakside zone changed the game more than anything. It allowed defensive liabilities to hide more easily and amps up ball pressure and denial for a single star player. After the Celtics shut down anyone they wanted in '08 everyone saw you needed a second option from there on out. The response has been better ball movement, much better shooters, and a different game than pre-'08.
In sum they collectively make the game about flow and movement whereas it used to be mostly stagnant, and as mentioned a few times, simply a game of one on one. As Charles Barkley always says, you can't stop a great offensive player, you can only make him work. You put a great offensive player in a one on one situation and he simply won't have to work as hard.
...Where people like myself get upset and pull out the Jordan references is when we see talking heads on ESPN or dolts on message boards saying Lebron is as good or better than Michael.