*Official* 2015 NFL Thread -> Round1 playoffs (Wildcards)

[SSSnail]

Again, PFM was playing terrible all season. If he IS healthy and back to PFM of last year regular season, Chiefs won't beat them. That is a big if though. And, KC has to beat the NFC champ. On 5 turnovers they scored 30 points. Arizona and Carolina put up 30 without that help. And, GB and Seattle do it on a good day. Shittsburgh can also score. KC won't fair well in a shootout nor do I think they can beat a balanced team. Banking on KC because they win the next game is foolish.

Or, so we're talking about IF... all of Denver's wins against the Chiefs, all of them have come down to the wire, all except for one. And, you think Peyton lost because he was playing poorly, and has nothing to do with the Chiefs defense forced him into making those errors... Like I said, narratives...

Again, you do realize the only time they meet another NFC team is in the SB, right? And, it's all about the match up, any team can beat any other teams. You're thinking any team can hang 30 on the Chiefs defense as though it's given... lol.

 

[glenn1]

Again, PFM was playing terrible all season. If he IS healthy and back to PFM of last year regular season, Chiefs won't beat them. That is a big if though. And, KC has to beat the NFC champ. On 5 turnovers they scored 30 points. Arizona and Carolina put up 30 without that help. And, GB and Seattle do it on a good day. Shittsburgh can also score. KC won't fair well in a shootout nor do I think they can beat a balanced team. Banking on KC because they win the next game is foolish.

PFM wasn't very good for the last few games of the 2014 season either, 2015 has really just been a continuation of that. Ironically enough his slide began with the Week 11 loss to STL last year but truly became apparent when when playing the Chiefs and he put up a line of 17/34 for 179 yards and an 85.3 QB rating. Even his best game this year wasn't amazing - week 3 @ DET he put up 31/42 for 324, 2TD / 1 INT and a 101.7 QB rating.

This also ignores the fact that his RBs were performing much better the last 2 years (CJ Anderson in 2014 and Moreno the year before) versus an underpeforming RB by committee this year and that he's now throwing to Vernon Davis as his TE and I don't think you can say KC would be an easy win at all. Personally I think that every win DEN gets this postseason may be a struggle, even if they win it all I don't think it will be via blowout win.

 

[emperus]

Skill creates luck. Pats have gotten lucky many times based on their skill.

It takes a special fan to equate an opposing kicker missing a cheap shot, to luck that was based on skill. What skill did the Hawks demonstrate there. Nothing wrong with saying you got lucky and are fortunate for the break you got.

 

[smackababy]

Or, so we're talking about IF... all of Denver's wins against the Chiefs, all of them have come down to the wire, all except for one. And, you think Peyton lost because he was playing poorly, and has nothing to do with the Chiefs defense forced him into making those errors... Like I said, narratives...

Again, you do realize the only time they meet another NFC team is in the SB, right? And, it's all about the match up, any team can beat any other teams. You're thinking any team can hang 30 on the Chiefs defense as though it's given... lol.

For starters, both of us are talking IFs. The Chiefs have to win 3 more games to win the SB. Any of the other teams the Chiefs have to beat won't need to put up 30 points. With the exception of the Broncos, every team had a higher average PPG than KC. They put up 30 against a 5 turnover, Hoyer led Houstans. Beating NE isn't a clear path to a SB victory. There are still two great teams they will need to get past.

 

[dainthomas]

It takes a special fan to equate an opposing kicker missing a cheap shot, luck that was based on skill. What skill did the Hawks demonstrate there. Nothing wrong with saying you got lucky and are fortunate for the break you got.

How about skill of not allowing any TD's? Or having a one point lead at the end so a chip shot field goal even matters? That's what I'm talking about. But you knew that.

Have you even looked at their defensive stats all season?

 

[zinfamous]

These Hawks fans and players. Be happy you got a lucky win. You were not the better team yesterday.

I like how you care so much about Seattle in their fans. I think you hate them more than you want to love on Brady, which is a pretty big deal.

 

[emperus]

I like how you care so much about Seattle in their fans. I think you hate them more than you want to love on Brady, which is a pretty big deal.

Damn, how's that gash? The way you stalk people, you sure you aren't a female?

 

[zinfamous]

Damn, how's that gash? The way you stalk people, you sure you aren't a female?

again, what is a gash?

 

[emperus]

How about skill of not allowing any TD's? Or having a one point lead at the end so a chip shot field goal even matters? That's what I'm talking about. But you knew that.

Have you even looked at their defensive stats all season?

Watching that game, do you really believe Seattle was the better team that day? Or did they get a couple of fortunate breaks?

Take the win and be happy about it, but to act like you somehow played better than the Vikings to win that game? That's special.

 

[zinfamous]

How about skill of not allowing any TD's? Or having a one point lead at the end so a chip shot field goal even matters? That's what I'm talking about. But you knew that.

Have you even looked at their defensive stats all season?

The Vikings having a 98% chance of winning in the final 20 seconds yesterday almost reminds everyone of Seattle having a 98% chance of winning in the final seconds of the superbowl last year.

well, almost everyone. Not stupid people, though.

 

[zinfamous]

Watching that game, do you really believe Seattle was the better team that day? Or did they get a couple of fortunate breaks?

Take the win and be happy about it, but to act like you somehow played better than the Vikings to win that game? That's special.

fwiw--I don't think dainthomas acts like he did anything on the field to merit any sort of judgement.

Do you actually think you take balls from Tom Brady and are part of any Pats win? (In your dreams, yes we all know that--but I mean on the field?)

 

[zinfamous]

again, what is a gash?

I still don't know what a gash is?

Like a scar? Are you worried that I was cut or something? Awww, that's nice emperus :wub:

 

[SSSnail]

For starters, both of us are talking IFs. The Chiefs have to win 3 more games to win the SB. Any of the other teams the Chiefs have to beat won't need to put up 30 points. With the exception of the Broncos, every team had a higher average PPG than KC. They put up 30 against a 5 turnover, Hoyer led Houstans. Beating NE isn't a clear path to a SB victory. There are still two great teams they will need to get past.

Go look at the point differential they put up since their winning streak started, and points allowed.

And, you're falling into the trap that most ignorant football fans would fall into, and that you're saying ignorant shit like "they put up 30 against a 5 turnover, Hoyer led Houston Texans"...

First of all, the Chiefs Offense didn't play against the Houston's Offense, they played against a dominant Houston's Defense, was one of the best in the playoff. Putting up 23 points on that defense wasn't a joke (special team provided the other 7). The first half was for them to probe and test the defense, the second half they opened it up. And, I don't think they needed any more points after that. Yes, I know, it's trivial for a play off team to hang blank the other playoff team and hang 30 on them, happens all the time...

Secondly, you're thinking putting up 30 points on the Chiefs defense is easily done... Here are the times within the last 3 years that has happened.

2013:
game 12 L Chargers 38 - 41 (they lost both their pass rushers this game)
game 13 L Broncos 28 - 35 (this one as well)
game 14 W Raiders 56 - 31 (garbage time)

Wild card L Indy 44-45 (lost safety, along with the pass rushers, as well as offensive stars)

2014: Not once

2015:
Week 2 lost to broncos on a heartbreaking Jamaal fumble 24-31 (so really, that's 24 points on offense)
Week 3 lost to GB 24 - 31 in GB (they got in their funk here)
Week 4 lost to cinci 21 - 36 (the funk continued)

And, that's it.

Since their win streak started, their PPG differential is 13.63...

Anyways, this is exactly what I meant when I said talking heads and pundits are dismissing the Chiefs, they mentioned the exact same things that you did, without any context.

Edit: the 13.63 PPG differential is more than the average points allowed during that streak, which is 11.63.

 

[SP33Demon]

I said:

You argued:

This is hilarious to anyone that can read.

You have now chosen to use numbers for analysis as future speculation to prove that you were right all along? Most 8th graders already understand that future predictions are no indication of anything; certainly not acceptable evidence in any sort of debate. And sure as shit not useful in the NFL. Go home.

You make every asinine support with Bradford under the *if healthy! corollary which, if you knew anything, has always been part of his package. It is the primary reason that he is an albatross for any team: evidence that he's fairly decent, but breaks yet another stupid bone then-unknown to science before he can ever get rolling on any season.

Further, you go with the "he will be a great asset as trade bait!"

LoL! How does that refute my claim that he will never start for a playoff team?

Bradford may not want to stay in Philly, numbnuts. Ever think of that? Read what he said in that article that it will depend on who they hire as head coach. In that case, Philly will have to shop him around if they don't want to spend 25mil to franchise him without a deal. Regardless, he holds in the least 2nd round value which Philly gave up for him.

His ACL repaired knee held up fine this year. The concussion he had could have happened to any QB, so keep grasping at straws. He only missed 2 starts out of 16 which is more than many starters. Look at the list through game 12:

All told, this season 12 starting quarterbacks either already have or will miss a combined 55 starts due to injury, including Romo (12 games), Manning (2), Flacco (7), Philadelphia’s Sam Bradford (2), Indianapolis’ Andrew Luck (4), Pittsburgh’s Ben Roethlisberger (4), Cleveland’s Josh McCown (7), the New York Jets’ Geno Smith (11), Buffalo’s Tyrod Taylor (2), Tennessee rookie Marcus Mariota (2), Chicago’s Jay Cutler (1), and New Orleans’ Drew Brees (1).
[Add to the list since then: Dalton, Hoyer, Hasslebeck, Whitehurst, Schaub, Vick, Landry Jones, Bridgewater, Kaepernick, Manziel] ...

[In 2014,] Kansas City lost Alex Smith for one game, Carolina’s Cam Newton was out for two games, first due to a rib injury and then vertebrae fractures he sustained in a car accident late in the season, while Washington’s Robert Griffin III missed six games with an injured left ankle only to battle and then lose out to Colt McCoy.

Last season, the Arizona Cardinals and quarterback Carson Palmer endured the same fate as the Ravens, Cowboys and now the Browns this season. The veteran Palmer was playing exceptionally well and went a perfect 6-0 before a torn ACL prematurely ended his 2014.

Former Vikings starter Matt Cassel broke his foot in the third game of last season, and then lost his job to Teddy Bridgewater, technically resulting in 13 missed starts even though the then-rookie Bridgewater was expected to take over at some point in 2014. And even Bridgewater missed one game.

The Jets’ Smith sat out one game with a shoulder injury last season, lost his job to Michael Vick for a time, and wound up missing three total starts because of the injury and eventually poor play.

While with Tampa Bay last season McCown missed five starts with a thumb injury, former Eagles starter Nick Foles went down for the final eight starts of the season after suffering a shoulder injury and losing his job to Mark Sanchez, and St. Louis’ Shaun Hill suffered an injury before last season’s opener and missed eight straight games.

The list of mediocrity continued with now retired Titan Jake Locker going down with a wrist injury and missing nine games altogether.

http://www.ibtimes.com/year-injured...5-compares-2014s-list-injured-passers-2206857

Injuries can and will happen to any QB. You wouldn't sign Sam because he missed 2 games which was the same or better as half the league? Please. QBs who are healthy this year were seriously injured last year (Cam, Palmer). There is no QB who doesn't get injured unless you're in a scheme that releases the ball in 2 secs or less (like Brady). And even Brady got pummeled this year (without the best dink and dunk slot receiver in the NFL) and was limping so bad he couldn't finish the last game. Aaron Rodgers missed significant time 2 years ago with a broken clavicle, Bortles 2 games last year. Alex Smith missed a game last year and the year before. The point? Almost every QB is going to miss a few games at some point in his career. The only ones who haven't missed a game in the past 3 years are: Matthew Stafford, Russ Wilson, Matt Ryan, Brady, Rivers, Tannehill.

Conclusion: zinfamous would make a shitty GM if he's scared to sign a QB because they missed a few games due to injury, i.e. "evidence that he's fairly decent, but breaks yet another stupid bone then-unknown to science before he can ever get rolling on any season". BTW, that would be Andy Dalton this year on the stupid bone break, not Bradford. Better wait until Stafford, Wilson, Ryan, Tannehill, Rivers or Brady decide to leave their team. /snicker And Bradford is arguably a better talent than all of that list except Wilson and Brady.

What you fail to understand is that it will take time for any QB to get comfortable in a new offensive scheme. Funny you bring up "8th graders", because QB Whisperer Bruce Arians has something to say about that:

"I've never tried to judge a quarterback in a new offense until Week 8," Arians said on a conference call Wednesday. ...

So, when does it start to click?

"It was Week 8 for us last year, and then all of a sudden you could see the guys around him start to get it and play faster and play better," Arians said.

"Instead of waiting to see a guy come open, he was throwing guys open. When you're waiting to see a guy come open, you're going to throw interceptions because your eyes are there too soon and too long. When you can throw the ball on time, trust the receiver is going to be there, everything happens a second or a second and a half faster. That's a lot of time when you're talking about the passing game."...
"I used the analogy, it's like taking an eighth-grader and putting him back in first grade," Arians said of Palmer's aptitude this season.

So here we have a great coach saying it takes at least a half a season to learn the new system. So let's apply it to Bradford. He had the best Week 17 of any NFL QB in the final game of the season, and improved every game from the halfway point of the season according to PFF:

Quarterback: Sam Bradford, Eagles (+4.6)

Bradford saving his highest game grade of the season for the game after Chip Kelly is fired? Conspiracy! Actually, it’s more the culmination of a generally steady improvement for the QB over the second half of the year, and an accurate performance against the Giants.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2016/01/04/pro-best-players-at-every-position-in-week-17/

Once again, zinfamous has no idea what he's talking about when it comes to Bradford. First, he cries that "Bradford sucks!" then we proved that wrong. Then he moved the goalposts to injury, and we proved that 22 QBs missed at least 1 start or more this year and Bradford's ACL legs held up fine like many before him (Revis, Jamaal Charles, Peterson) and only 6 QBs haven't missed a game in the past 3 years. Then he moves goalposts to "well he won't start for a playoff team!" which is obviously a function of team and not an individual who is doing his job well.

Give it up for the QBR-bro who hasn't won any money this year in any competitive fantasy league but rest assured he knows what he's talking about when it comes to football! /golfclap

 

[SSSnail]

Here's a good read about the national pundits and talking heads' point of view after the Chiefs vs. Texans game. http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2016/...xans-playoff-game-handed-to-them-they-took-it

This illustrates the exact points I was making.

 

[glenn1]

Here's a good read about the national pundits and talking heads' point of view after the Chiefs vs. Texans game. http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2016/...xans-playoff-game-handed-to-them-they-took-it

This illustrates the exact points I was making.

What point are you trying to make at this point? No one is saying the Chiefs are terrible. Even if they could somehow proven to be the undisputed #1 team by some quantifiable metric they could still be beaten by the worst remaining playoff team, welcome to NFL parity. Anyone who says the Pats or Broncos will steamroll them is talking out their ass, just as you are when you say if they win next week they're going to win the SB. Every team remaining has the talent to win it all, and every team has the ability to fall on their face and embarrass themselves in one of their coming games.

 

[Homerboy]

As a Packers fan I was torn between who I wanted to lose more -- Vikings or Seattle. I loathe both teams to no end. I guess I wanted Vikings to win as I do (sorta) like AP and Bridgewater. Seattle (and their bandwagon fans) are just about the most annoying team in the world right now. I'm not even a RW fan, and I live in Wisconsin. I hate that dude.

That being said, I was VERY happy with the Packers win. I think it was a mix of horrible defense and the offense gaining a little confidence. Hopefully that carries into next week.

 

[SSSnail]

What point are you trying to make at this point? No one is saying the Chiefs are terrible. (1) Even if they could somehow proven to be the undisputed #1 team by some quantifiable metric they could still be beaten by the worst remaining playoff team, welcome to NFL parity(2). Anyone who says the Pats or Broncos will steamroll them is talking out their ass, just as you are when you say if they win next week they're going to win the SB.(3) Every team remaining has the talent to win it all, and every team has the ability to fall on their face and embarrass themselves in one of their coming games.(4)

1. Scroll up, or the last page, depends on your forum settings.

2. That's the point - PARITY. As in, any team can beat any other team on any given Sunday, or Saturday... But, as you can see, it's always WHY the other team sucked and not how the Chiefs won, doesn't matter if the Chiefs vanquished foes were giving other teams fit, it's because the Chiefs got lucky, or some shit like that, for 11 games. As some people posted above.

3. That's the kool-aid in me talking, but, not without precedence.

4. I'm looking forward to more articles on how the Chiefs next opponents sucked and that's why they lost.

Cheers,
SSSnail

 

[SP33Demon]

Here's a good read about the national pundits and talking heads' point of view after the Chiefs vs. Texans game. http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2016/...xans-playoff-game-handed-to-them-they-took-it

This illustrates the exact points I was making.

And that article doesn't really explain much other than a biased KC fan analysis through rosy goggles.

1) It quotes the Texans 4th ranked DVOA Defensive line on the season as evidence that the Chiefs played against a good defense which is BS. The reason for that ranking is mainly due to Clowney and a fully healthy JJ Watt which wasn't the case Sunday. Do you think Ray Mercilus is going to keep sacking the QB on his own? Fat chance without its 2 best players - 1 out and 1 hobbled and came out in the 3rd. Are Joseph, Jackson, and Johnson going to continue to stick their man without a pass rush? Fat chance. Also consider how much that Texans D had to be on the field in the game - 34 minutes TOP vs 25. Holy shit, that's almost 2/3's of an entire quarter more the D had to be on the field because of my next point...

2) The article claims that it wasn't Hoyer's fault when he posted the worst PFF grade in playoff history... EVER.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/bl...hiefs-was-one-of-worst-weve-seen-in-playoffs/

Hoyer’s grade of -8.3 stands as the worst quarterback performance we have ever seen in postseason play, and the fact he remained in the game for the duration of it is remarkable.
...
For the game, Hoyer’s passer rating was just 15.9, which when you consider just throwing the ball into the turf every play gives you a passer rating of 39.6, shows you how truly self-destructive he was with the football. He threw four interceptions, and these weren’t the kind where you can point to miscommunication, bad bounces, unlucky plays or any other mitigating circumstances. Hoyer was making poor decisions and compounding those bad decisions with poor accuracy on the plays where he was reading things right.

Most quarterbacks struggle the most when pressured — and Hoyer’s passer rating when he felt heat in this game was 30.8, which is pretty terrible — but the real problem was what he was doing from a clean pocket.

When he had time to deliver the ball in rhythm without any pressure his passer rating was 9.7, and three of his four picks came on these plays. He only completed 37.5 percent of his passes when he faced no pressure at all, in a league where 70 percent is becoming the new target for quarterbacks to shoot for.
...
The Texans are in desperate need of a quarterback upgrade over the offseason, and there was no greater evidence of that than the situation they found themselves in against Kansas City: a starter playing so poorly he demanded to be benched, and a backup so bad the team didn’t believe he would be an upgrade.

To claim it was the Chiefs D and not mainly Hoyers' = preposterous. This guy was struggling to hit the broad side of a barn door on a slant. I'll give KC some credit, but it was mainly Hoyer tanking the game because maybe he was scared shitless without Duane Brown protecting for him. Who knows other than that it was the worst individual performance at the QB position in playoff history. If you guys are going to hang your hat on that as a solid win, then be my guest. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if Brady slipped in the shower and was inactive along with Edelman with as many gifts as KC gets.

 

[SSSnail]

^^^^
See what I'm talking about, Glenn1?

 

[SP33Demon]

Hey Skins fans, the hilarity that is your #1 pick RG3 continues:

"Robert Griffin III left a message in his locker on Monday suggesting he's played his final game as a beloved patriot. In true RGIII fashion, he left behind a passive aggressive quote on laminated paper with a Redskins logo as the backdrop. It can be viewed at the link below. RGIII's Redskins career spiraled out of control due in part to things beyond his control, but he's never seemed to exactly make things easy on his coaches. He's bound to have a fascinating market. Wherever he ends up, it's unlikely to be as a guaranteed starter.
Source: Robert Klemko on Twitter
Jan 11 - 2:00 PM"

Ahhhhhhhahaha. Only RG3. How rich would it be if he ended up on the team (Rams) who got 8 players for him? Then the cycle would be complete for fuckup owner Dan Snyder and Fisher could really troll the Skins on the coin toss if they play next year.

 

[smackababy]

Keep it classy, Eagles fans! You'd think your trash team would be enough to focus on. But nope! RG3 is on your lips.

 

[SP33Demon]

^^^^
See what I'm talking about, Glenn1?

What is your point? Do you want me to gush about them vs Houston when they don't deserve it? I'm showing you the facts - they didn't actually face the 4th ranked DVOA defense, and that Hoyer was historically bad with a clean pocket + the right read and that has nothing to do with KC and everything to do with his performance. Anyone who is trying to distort these facts aren't being truthful with you. You can give KC 1 of the INTs (as your article stressed), but the other 3 were completely on Hoyer and gifted to KC (no peep about that from your article). I don't care what you say, but swing the Turnover battle to +3 in the playoffs and that team will win 90% of the time. Did KC still have to make the play? Of course, so I give them credit for doing what they had to do. But KC still has a strength of schedule problem - we won't know what they're made of until the trip to Foxboro.

 

[SP33Demon]

Keep it classy, Eagles fans! You'd think your trash team would be enough to focus on. But nope! RG3 is on your lips.

How is this not hilarious? Even to Skins fans?

 

[smackababy]

How is this not hilarious? Even to Skins fans?

Not nearly as funny as paying all that money to an RB that got 1,100 yards less than he did last season.