***Official*** 2015 Stock Market Thread

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Kwatt

Golden Member
Jan 3, 2000
1,602
12
81
One almost wonders if Shell and Exxon and the like are somehow manipulating the market or giving kick backs to OPEC somehow. I honestly would not be surprised.

OPEC controls 80% of the world's conventional oil reserves.
Exxon ~3%? I think. Shell no clue but less than Exxon.


I honestly would not be surprised.

It would be a case of the tail wagging the dog ... but, I would not be suprised either. If they could manipulate the market they would. IMO

.
 

ponyo

Lifer
Feb 14, 2002
19,689
2,811
126
Not sure if it is low enough yet. What made you decide now is the time?

Michael

It's probably not. But I made the decision to buy at these levels last year and I'm sticking with my plan. I traded Amkor last year from high $5 to high $10 so I'm trying my luck again this year. BP is probably long term hold.
 

JEDI

Lifer
Sep 25, 2001
30,160
3,302
126
and oil is now in $47 territory.

how much would DTO (double short oil) be worth if oil went down to $1/barrel?
 

Imp

Lifer
Feb 8, 2000
18,829
184
106
It has to go higher or else the higher cost providers (fracking) will stop producing. Then there will be a supply issue. Which means prices go up which means more fracking.

It's kinda messed up. Oil costs between $35 and $80+ (approx.) to produce.

That's what helps me sleep at night. I don't think the Middle East can produce enough to supply the entire world, so the supply/demand thing *should* work out over the long-term.


So, COS is back down to CAD$ ~8.50. I didn't buy when it went up 25% a few weeks ago because I thought it'd come back down. Now, we're back down... But at these prices, they'll very likely cut their dividend from $0.20/quarter to $0.15/quarter, at least. Average down now or when oil hits $40?
 

Hugo Drax

Diamond Member
Nov 20, 2011
5,647
47
91
That's what helps me sleep at night. I don't think the Middle East can produce enough to supply the entire world, so the supply/demand thing *should* work out over the long-term.


So, COS is back down to CAD$ ~8.50. I didn't buy when it went up 25% a few weeks ago because I thought it'd come back down. Now, we're back down... But at these prices, they'll very likely cut their dividend from $0.20/quarter to $0.15/quarter, at least. Average down now or when oil hits $40?

Flip a coin. Assuming COS stays solvent, they could become a penny stock. I would be worried more about return of capital not return on capital or dividends at this stage.
 

Imp

Lifer
Feb 8, 2000
18,829
184
106
Flip a coin. Assuming COS stays solvent, they could become a penny stock. I would be worried more about return of capital not return on capital or dividends at this stage.

They'll most likely stay solvent. The operation's been running since the 1970s or something? But the share price was like $3... Go go gambling!
 

Imp

Lifer
Feb 8, 2000
18,829
184
106
Oil hovering around $48 right now. Using past performance as an indicator like an absolute genius, I call bottom at ~$35.

Cotton's up over a percent though.
 

Michael

Elite member
Nov 19, 1999
5,435
234
106
It's probably not. But I made the decision to buy at these levels last year and I'm sticking with my plan. I traded Amkor last year from high $5 to high $10 so I'm trying my luck again this year. BP is probably long term hold.

I generally wait for an even lower price for Amkor and a catalyst for volume changes in semiconductor shipments (to the upside). I was CFO of a competitor of theirs for a while and used to know the industry very well. Amkor is a ones Avery 3 year trade and makes 3-5 x what you invested in my opinion.

Michael
 

FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
29,311
2,100
126
I told you people to sell last month. The first week of January every year is always filled with drama.

On 12/30/15 buy puts on the QQQ/SP/Etc and cash in the first week of 2016.
 

Hugo Drax

Diamond Member
Nov 20, 2011
5,647
47
91
I told you people to sell last month. The first week of January every year is always filled with drama.

On 12/30/15 buy puts on the QQQ/SP/Etc and cash in the first week of 2016.

But I thought you were bullish last month when you took a long call position on DRYS?
 

ponyo

Lifer
Feb 14, 2002
19,689
2,811
126
I generally wait for an even lower price for Amkor and a catalyst for volume changes in semiconductor shipments (to the upside). I was CFO of a competitor of theirs for a while and used to know the industry very well. Amkor is a ones Avery 3 year trade and makes 3-5 x what you invested in my opinion.

Michael

I agree with you Amkor is trade every couple years stock. I followed the company and traded the stock on and off for about 10 years now. I would never invest long term in the company. It's not shareholder friendly company. The company is basically public traded piggy bank for the Kim family. With Kim controlling 60%+ of the company and most of their debt, they pretty much do whatever they want. It's best of the both worlds for them. Access to the public capital and the ability to run it like a private company since they own so much of the company and the debt. Shareholders get screwed in the process. But like you mentioned, you can make lot of money and score multiple bagger if you time it right and buy in the up cycle after it's beat up.

My plan was to wait for low $5 before buying back in. But I don't mind buying early in the $6 range and averaging down as it drops. I think there's strong support in the $5 range but I'm not so sure it will get there. Something is up with Amkor. As long I've been following the stock, the short interest has always been around 25-30% of the float. But recently, the short interest have dropped way down and is now around 5%. That's major decrease and something I've never seen with the stock even when it was trading down in the buck and change range. Smart money knows something. That's my guess.
 

FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
29,311
2,100
126
But I thought you were bullish last month when you took a long call position on DRYS?

For June of 2015 on a Greek shipping stock in the troughs of dry bulk depression, selling calls against my long position to hedge my bet .. yes. But the overall market, not really.
 

JEDI

Lifer
Sep 25, 2001
30,160
3,302
126
so was $47 oil the bottom?

$48 in normal US trading.
now $49 and climbing in over seas trading
 
Sep 29, 2004
18,665
67
91
Listened to a podcast today regarding oil. It's a bunch of value investors. Their stance is that Saudi Arabia is the cause of the low oil prices and they dropped their prices to get at their neighbors (over something, I don't know what). But the neighboring oil rich countries have revenue targets so they started producing more to get the same revenues. Which increases supply and with more supply online, what does the supply demand curve state? Even lower prices. So, this could get ugly. But they think that it can't stay low for long. They didn't say why but $40 oil would be very worrisome. They think oil should get back to $70-$80 fairly soon (within a year or two).
 

Kwatt

Golden Member
Jan 3, 2000
1,602
12
81
so was $47 oil the bottom?

$48 in normal US trading.
now $49 and climbing in over seas trading

Could be or it could be buyers thinking it is the bottom....

Any of the shale oil companies that have a well that has any output will have to sale no matter how far the price falls.

They need a revenue stream even if they are losing money in order to get loans rolled over.

.
 

Imp

Lifer
Feb 8, 2000
18,829
184
106
Listened to a podcast today regarding oil. It's a bunch of value investors. Their stance is that Saudi Arabia is the cause of the low oil prices and they dropped their prices to get at their neighbors (over something, I don't know what). But the neighboring oil rich countries have revenue targets so they started producing more to get the same revenues. Which increases supply and with more supply online, what does the supply demand curve state? Even lower prices. So, this could get ugly. But they think that it can't stay low for long. They didn't say why but $40 oil would be very worrisome. They think oil should get back to $70-$80 fairly soon (within a year or two).

At ~$50 for Brent, that means they'd have to produce twice as much to get same revenue as when oil was $100. I can't believe they have that much reserve capacity or that they'd even be able to ramp it up so quickly. If they do, ya, lol, good luck to prices.

Meanwhile, I'm seeing more anecdotal "they just cut us" news stories and comments around the place.
 

Kwatt

Golden Member
Jan 3, 2000
1,602
12
81
At ~$50 for Brent, that means they'd have to produce twice as much to get same revenue as when oil was $100. I can't believe they have that much reserve capacity or that they'd even be able to ramp it up so quickly. If they do, ya, lol, good luck to prices.

Meanwhile, I'm seeing more anecdotal "they just cut us" news stories and comments around the place.

Two guys are hiking a trail when they spoted a bear coming at them. One guy opened his pack and took out running shoes and started putting them on. His buddy said even with those shoes you can't out run the bear. 1st guy says I only need to out run YOU.

All of OPEC was cheating on the production limits. They all wanted the other guys to cut production. The Saudi's did not want to be the only ones to cut production.

The Saudi's are counting on outlasting everyone else. And they have a bunch of funds.

At the next meeting they may ask the other members if they are ready to cut or would you like see if we can get the price down to $25.

.
 

FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
29,311
2,100
126
If people start wasting gas again because its relatively cheap (by comparison to $4+ a gallon), Im going to smack them upside the head. Its wasteful stupidity like that & not continuing to invest in more effecient technologies that gives us $100 oil.
 

Kwatt

Golden Member
Jan 3, 2000
1,602
12
81
If people start wasting gas again because its relatively cheap (by comparison to $4+ a gallon), Im going to smack them upside the head. Its wasteful stupidity like that & not continuing to invest in more effecient technologies that gives us $100 oil.

Get ready to smack! That is what people have been trained to do since childhood.

On a side note is this the begining? http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=246244704

All the talking heads are asking what is the break even price.

The break even price is useless. When a driller goes looking for a loan he doesn't say "If you lend us this money and we hit a good well, no equipment breaksdown and no bad wheather holds us up we will break even." The money people are not going to form a line to get in on it.


.
 
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FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
29,311
2,100
126
Get ready to smack! That is what people have been trained to do since childhood.

On a side note is this the begining? http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=246244704

All the talking heads are asking what is the break even price.

The break even price is useless. When a driller goes looking for a loan he doesn't say "If you lend us this money and we hit a good well, no equipment breaksdown and no bad wheather holds us up we will break even." The money people are not going to form a line to get in on it.


.

At least higher CAFE standards will help in the long run. When gas is too expensive I dont drive all over DFW like I used to back in the 90s when gas was .79-.99 cents. I only drove to work and back, shopped on the weekends and stayed around town.

In the 1990s I averaged 22,000 to 25,000 of local joy riding. Last year I put on only 11,000 expensive to drive miles.
 
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