***Official*** 2016 Stock Market Thread

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holden j caufield

Diamond Member
Dec 30, 1999
6,324
10
81
SUNE is the biggest rollercoaster of all time. I've owned it a $2.75 avg cost late last year, sold it at $4 something, saw it go to $7 and then drop to 1.20 something. I almost bought x0000 shares at that price (limit order didn't get filled as I marked it all or none. Watched in horror as it went from 1.21 to 2..75 in 2 days. Would have been my biggest score.
 
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KB

Diamond Member
Nov 8, 1999
5,401
386
126
China's PMI numbers sucked... again. Let's rally!

Might be an AUTO-PLAY video:
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/02/29/chin...-down-from-494-in-january-caixin-to-come.html

Maybe investors finally realized China isn't going to sink the world economy? We sell very little to China so its not hurting us that much. Interestingly a lot of capital is fleeing China for the US so China's loss may be our gain.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...utflows-climb-to-estimated-1-trillion-in-2015
 

overst33r

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
5,762
12
81
Saw gas price jump 20c this morning compared to yesterday. Why does it seem like when prices go down, they trickle down ever so slowly... but when they go up, it's usually a huge jump?
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,214
3,632
126
Saw gas price jump 20c this morning compared to yesterday. Why does it seem like when prices go down, they trickle down ever so slowly... but when they go up, it's usually a huge jump?
Profit.

Gasoline is an inelastic good. There is no strong connection between the price of gas and the amount the public purchases. I have to get to work whether it is $1/gallon or $5/gallon. I'm certainly not going to drive more or less based on the price.

Thus, when the wholesale gas price goes down, there is no direct connection to the actual drivers. We can be completely oblivious to the wholesale price and it won't affect our purchases. Thus, there is no need for the gas retailers to drop prices right away. They will only drop prices when the competition forces them to. That is a slow game as they try to keep prices as high as they can until they are forced to drop them. Or maybe, they can drop it a slight amount and steal business away when the other station isn't looking.

Gasoline doesn't carry a high profit margin. When the wholesale gas price goes up, they need to raise prices at the pump or go out of business. They can't absorb losses for long. So, they must raise prices quickly.
 

overst33r

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
5,762
12
81
Profit.

Gasoline is an inelastic good. There is no strong connection between the price of gas and the amount the public purchases. I have to get to work whether it is $1/gallon or $5/gallon. I'm certainly not going to drive more or less based on the price.

Thus, when the wholesale gas price goes down, there is no direct connection to the actual drivers. We can be completely oblivious to the wholesale price and it won't affect our purchases. Thus, there is no need for the gas retailers to drop prices right away. They will only drop prices when the competition forces them to. That is a slow game as they try to keep prices as high as they can until they are forced to drop them. Or maybe, they can drop it a slight amount and steal business away when the other station isn't looking.

Gasoline doesn't carry a high profit margin. When the wholesale gas price goes up, they need to raise prices at the pump or go out of business. They can't absorb losses for long. So, they must raise prices quickly.

Thanks :thumbsup:
 

ponyo

Lifer
Feb 14, 2002
19,689
2,811
126
Anyone brave or crazy enough to touch Valeant (VRX)? I see that stock and I keep thinking back to Worldcom and Enron. Some of the same analysts who had previously pumped Valeant are now lowering the price targets by much as $100 and jumping away like rats on a sinking ship.
 

holden j caufield

Diamond Member
Dec 30, 1999
6,324
10
81
a lot of the stocks in my watch portfolio are up 1 to 9% A little worrisome is they are all trading at below normal volume so I'm not sure what to make of this rally.
 
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Imp

Lifer
Feb 8, 2000
18,829
184
106
a lot of the stock in my watch portfolio are up 1 to 9% A little worrisome is they are all trading at below normal volume so I'm not sure what to make of this rally.

Don't ask questions, stupid. Just buy! Buy! Buy! It's a never ending rally based on strong fundamentals... not record low interest rates and insane amounts of debt.

Seriously, big jump in stocks. Hope that means a March Fed rate hike. At least a bit of these gains must be attributed to the belief that Fed won't hike because of how things were going.
 

11thHour

Senior member
Feb 20, 2004
796
1
0
The beginning of the end of the world is over, as the world is beginning to not end anymore. Sad face.
 

Imp

Lifer
Feb 8, 2000
18,829
184
106
API report: 9.9 million barrel build in crude. Distillates up, gasoline down.

They've been way off from the EIA report the last few weeks, so we'll see. Think it was an API draw and a big EIA build last week.

But fuq this, people. Let's buy!
 

Balt

Lifer
Mar 12, 2000
12,674
482
126
Anyone brave or crazy enough to touch Valeant (VRX)? I see that stock and I keep thinking back to Worldcom and Enron. Some of the same analysts who had previously pumped Valeant are now lowering the price targets by much as $100 and jumping away like rats on a sinking ship.

I'm staying far, far away from that one. Some of the big pharma companies who actually develop wonder drugs may be able to protect their margins, but companies like Valeant who just buy old drugs and then jack up the prices are much riskier IMO. They are seen as predatory and the politicians have them in the crosshairs.
 
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FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
29,312
2,101
126
An update on my trades and opinions......

1. UPL.... I thought oil/gas play Ultra Petroleum would go bankrupt by March 1st (I had a few puts), as they indicated they did not believe they could continue as going concern and would not be able to make payments on debt that were due on that day. The stock has been as low as 19 CENTS. TODAY, it hit 79 cents on news that waivers were given in order to work out a deal. Also, oil has been going up. I traded it recently long for a quick flip.

2. CHK....Chesapeake was also as low as $1.50 on bankruptcy fears last month. It rallied to $2.50 and I went long a few shares. I sold for a quick buck at $2.79. Todays quote on CHK? $3.79 was the high!!! Sadly, its founder also was indicted for bid rigging going back to 2012. He was found dead this morning on what appears to have been suicide (a high speed crash into a the wall of a bridge). RIP Aubrey!

3. SUNE....SUNE is so crazy. I sold for a loss a few days ago just before it fell to $1.50 on more legal troubles related to its purchase of VSLR and that it would delay its financial reports due to an internal investigation. Today it was up to $1.79 on news the banks might back out of financing the VSLR deal. Everyone knows it cant afford the deal anymore and if it is forced to back out, it might be a $3 stock again. Maybe!!
 
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Imp

Lifer
Feb 8, 2000
18,829
184
106
API report: 9.9 million barrel build in crude. Distillates up, gasoline down.

They've been way off from the EIA report the last few weeks, so we'll see. Think it was an API draw and a big EIA build last week.

But fuq this, people. Let's buy!

Hahahahah...AHAHAHA.

EIA reported a 10.4 million barrel crude build. Fairly consistent with API this week. Production, apparently, went down 25k barrels per day... but storage increased massively, so WTI went up today so it's all good?

AUTO-PLAY VIDEO in link:
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/03/01/oil-prices-fall-on-huge-build-in-us-crude-stocks.html
 
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Nograts

Platinum Member
Dec 1, 2014
2,534
3
0
Got a Vanguard report about their small cap funds. Yeah, they didn't do so hot in 2015. Sucks because I just got into small cap indexes like 2 years ago. Oh well, it's all in a Roth so I won't be able to touch it for a few years.
 

KB

Diamond Member
Nov 8, 1999
5,401
386
126
Got a Vanguard report about their small cap funds. Yeah, they didn't do so hot in 2015. Sucks because I just got into small cap indexes like 2 years ago. Oh well, it's all in a Roth so I won't be able to touch it for a few years.

Small caps tend to be high-beta, meaning they gain big when times are good and drop fast when times get turbulent. Nothing to worry about unless you have 100% of your Roth in it.
 

sm625

Diamond Member
May 6, 2011
8,172
137
106
Code:
2016-01-20      -1.3 chg   -5.1, score:   -6.4 graph:   49.5
2016-01-21       1.6 chg    2.9, score:    4.5 graph:   50.6
2016-01-22      18.1 chg   16.5, score:   34.7 graph:   57.3
2016-01-25      34.5 chg   16.4, score:   50.9 graph:   63.8 BUYIF
2016-01-26      58.7 chg   24.2, score:   82.9 graph:   75.1 BUY
2016-01-27      65.8 chg    7.1, score:   72.9 graph:   82.6 BUY
2016-01-28      71.1 chg    5.3, score:   76.4 graph:   89.0 BUY
2016-01-29      12.9 chg  -58.2, score:  -45.2 graph:   70.1 (sell in 34.4 days)
2016-02-01       1.3 chg  -11.6, score:  -10.3 graph:   64.3 (sell in 33.0 days)
2016-02-02      10.9 chg    9.6, score:   20.5 graph:   67.6 (sell in 32.8 days)
2016-02-03       8.7 chg   -2.2, score:    6.5 graph:   66.6 (sell in 32.1 days)
2016-02-04      -0.2 chg   -8.9, score:   -9.0 graph:   62.8 (sell in 30.7 days)
2016-02-05      11.3 chg   11.5, score:   22.8 graph:   66.8 (sell in 30.7 days)
2016-02-08       0.4 chg  -10.9, score:  -10.4 graph:   62.4 (sell in 29.2 days)
2016-02-09       3.9 chg    3.5, score:    7.4 graph:   63.3 (sell in 28.5 days)
2016-02-10       3.2 chg   -0.7, score:    2.6 graph:   62.7 (sell in 27.7 days)
2016-02-11      -3.2 chg   -6.5, score:   -9.7 graph:   59.8 (sell in 26.3 days)
2016-02-12      -4.7 chg   -1.4, score:   -6.1 graph:   58.6 (sell in 25.0 days)
2016-02-16     -13.4 chg   -8.7, score:  -22.0 graph:   54.7 (sell in 23.1 days)
2016-02-17     -20.9 chg   -7.5, score:  -28.4 graph:   50.9 (sell in 20.9 days)
2016-02-18      -9.9 chg   11.0, score:    1.1 graph:   54.4 (sell in 19.9 days)
2016-02-19       3.7 chg   13.7, score:   17.4 graph:   59.5 (sell in 19.7 days)
2016-02-22       2.3 chg   -1.5, score:    0.8 graph:   58.8 (sell in 18.7 days)
2016-02-23       2.8 chg    0.5, score:    3.2 graph:   58.6 (sell in 17.8 days)
2016-02-24       1.3 chg   -1.4, score:   -0.1 graph:   57.7 (sell in 16.8 days)
2016-02-25      -1.8 chg   -3.1, score:   -4.9 graph:   56.0 (sell in 15.6 days)
2016-02-26      -4.2 chg   -2.5, score:   -6.7 graph:   54.6 (sell in 14.3 days)
2016-02-29      -2.8 chg    1.4, score:   -1.4 graph:   54.6 (sell in 13.3 days)
2016-03-01      -0.9 chg    1.9, score:    1.1 graph:   55.0 (sell in 12.3 days)
2016-03-02      -0.6 chg    0.3, score:   -0.3 graph:   54.7 (sell in 11.3 days)
2016-03-03      -2.6 chg   -2.0, score:   -4.7 graph:   53.5 (sell in 7.1 days)

I'm going to go ahead and exit now. It looks like the automated sell signal is going to be generated in a few days anyway and I really dont want to risk any strange games involving payrolls tomorrow.
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,214
3,632
126
Got a Vanguard report about their small cap funds. Yeah, they didn't do so hot in 2015. Sucks because I just got into small cap indexes like 2 years ago. Oh well, it's all in a Roth so I won't be able to touch it for a few years.
Small cap stocks are the riskiest (most volatile) group. Like KB said, they tend to go up fast and fall hard. For example, the worst 3-year period for small stocks was a 70% loss. The worst 3-year period for large stocks was a 60% loss.


William Bernstein did a good analysis in his books (such as The Four Pillars of Investing). Here are his calculations for annualized returns over a 74 year period:
  • Small Value: 14.87%.
  • Large Value: 12.87%.
  • Large Growth: 10.77%.
  • Small Growth: 9.92%.
So, not only are small growth stocks the riskiest, they also return the least. Thus small growth stocks should only be a minimal part of your portfolio. The focus should be on small value stocks when you buy small stocks.

At least you put your volatile small stocks in a Roth. That way you aren't taxed repeatedly as they tend to fluctuate a lot and thus generate a lot of capital gains taxes.
 

Cal166

Diamond Member
May 6, 2000
5,081
8
81
An update on my trades and opinions......

2. [ Sadly, its founder also was indicted for bid rigging going back to 2012. He was found dead this morning on what appears to have been suicide (a high speed crash into a the wall of a bridge). RIP Aubrey!


Guy dies and stock goes up 30%.
 

FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
29,312
2,101
126
An update on my trades and opinions......

1. UPL.... I thought oil/gas play Ultra Petroleum would go bankrupt by March 1st (I had a few puts), as they indicated they did not believe they could continue as going concern and would not be able to make payments on debt that were due on that day. The stock has been as low as 19 CENTS. TODAY, it hit 79 cents on news that waivers were given in order to work out a deal. Also, oil has been going up. I traded it recently long for a quick flip.

2. CHK....Chesapeake was also as low as $1.50 on bankruptcy fears last month. It rallied to $2.50 and I went long a few shares. I sold for a quick buck at $2.79. Todays quote on CHK? $3.79 was the high!!! Sadly, its founder also was indicted for bid rigging going back to 2012. He was found dead this morning on what appears to have been suicide (a high speed crash into a the wall of a bridge). RIP Aubrey!

3. SUNE....SUNE is so crazy. I sold for a loss a few days ago just before it fell to $1.50 on more legal troubles related to its purchase of VSLR and that it would delay its financial reports due to an internal investigation. Today it was up to $1.79 on news the banks might back out of financing the VSLR deal. Everyone knows it cant afford the deal anymore and if it is forced to back out, it might be a $3 stock again. Maybe!!


Holy crap!!!

OIL is back in style!

UPL up 88% after working out a deal with lenders to $1.33!!!

CHK also up on lessened bankruptcy fears and debt woes. That is a $5 stock easy. BUY LONG TERM $5 CALLS FOR 2017, for $1.25 each.
 
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Imp

Lifer
Feb 8, 2000
18,829
184
106
I'm going to go ahead and exit now. It looks like the automated sell signal is going to be generated in a few days anyway and I really dont want to risk any strange games involving payrolls tomorrow.

Situation is stupid right now. If payroll = good, then rate hike in in mid-March possible, credit-driven-everything may cause drop similar to one in January. If payroll = bad, economy sucks but Fed may go negative or provide more QE.

Meanwhile, what credit bubble in China, what negative rates in the EU and Japan, what massive oil glut, and what 7 or 8 straight years of S&P 500 bull-market?
 

sm625

Diamond Member
May 6, 2011
8,172
137
106
and what 7 or 8 straight years of S&P 500 bull-market?

It wont be 8.



Recovery rates are already below 20%, this early in the cycle. This is going to be very bad.
 
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Kwatt

Golden Member
Jan 3, 2000
1,602
12
81
It wont be 8.



Recovery rates are already below 20%, this early in the cycle. This is going to be very bad.


I thought the economy was about to "turn the corner" and reach "escape velocity".... that is what I heard on the tube.

All that it needs is more QE and some negative rates.


.
 

Charmonium

Diamond Member
May 15, 2015
9,595
2,958
136
I thought the economy was about to "turn the corner" and reach "escape velocity".... that is what I heard on the tube.

All that it needs is more QE and some negative rates.


.
Housing normally leads us out of recessions. But that hasn't been the case this time around. People are just starting to feel secure in their jobs and that lack of security has prevented a lot of people from considering this kind of major purchase. Underwriting reqs for new loans are also a lot tighter than they have been historically. The savings rate is about what we saw from 2000-2005. It then dropped right before the bubble popped and there have been several spikes over the current 5% rate.

Finally, you lost a lot of people from the industry with the collapse of the housing bubble. A lot of skilled workers left construction to do other things and it takes a while to get those people back.

But housing starts are only about half of what they were pre-crisis. As that starts to increase, it will bring the rest of the economy with it.
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,214
3,632
126
Housing normally leads us out of recessions. But that hasn't been the case this time around. People are just starting to feel secure in their jobs and that lack of security has prevented a lot of people from considering this kind of major purchase. Underwriting reqs for new loans are also a lot tighter than they have been historically.
Don't forget the millions of people with foreclosures or short sales can't get a mortgage if they wanted to until at least 7 years have passed (especially with tighter lending requirements). There is what, about 15 million families left out of the housing market for now. The foreclosure peak was in 2010, so the bulk of these people won't even have a chance to get back in until about 2017.
 
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